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Post by socketman on Jan 1, 2018 14:26:22 GMT -5
The red yellow brown and orange wires dont color the sound? Pheew . You should really keep the 2 twisted pairs seperate from each other though.
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Post by leonski on Jan 1, 2018 17:54:23 GMT -5
The 2821 measures about 30pf per foot above 10khz. a very light high-cut filter.
I saw one price of about 5$ per foot, which ain't bad.
I use Mogami Studio Gold in 6' lengths from DAC to PRE.
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Post by rtg97229 on Jan 3, 2018 21:29:08 GMT -5
Do you really want to pay extra for an amplifier that can deliver twice it's 8 Ohm rating into 4 Ohms? If you really value that particular ability, enough to pay extra for it, we'll be glad to set that as another design parameter for our amps. (Note that nobody's promising it will sound any different.) With the right mental gymnastics all of the Emotiva speaker amps already deliver twice their 8 Ohm power rating into 4 Ohms.  Example: XPA-1 G2 - 500 W into 8 Ohms @ 0.01 THD (very impressive by the way) XPA-1 G2 - 1000 W into 4 Ohms @ 0.5 THD |
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Post by leonski on Jan 3, 2018 21:34:09 GMT -5
Ratings game.
Amp actually may make 200 / 350 at 8/4 respectively, at 1% distortion.
So you call it 175 / 350 and BINGO, doubles up @ 4 ohms.
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 3, 2018 22:25:48 GMT -5
The power coming from the power company is very dirty noisy and is very high voltage traveling across huge gauge power lines coated for corrosion protection but usually the cables that are up on poles are not even insulated (that's one reason never to touch a downed power line). Just before the power enters your home the voltage is transformed down to your normal voltage aprox 120 volts. The wires in your walls are just that in your walls NOT running near your equipment or right by the other cables in your system. This is where a nice power conditioner can help better the power that is coming out of your walls and shielded power cables can help keep any noise interference caused by the wires running in close proximity of your equipment and other cables in your system. Personally I don't feel power cables have as much effect on sound quality as other cables (speaker cables and interconnects) however I feel with power cables preventive measures of noise contamination to your system is what is most important with power cables. Power cables and interconnects can benefit from good shielding, while speaker cables are generally not shielded but cable designs like twisted pair and others can help by acting like shielding to protect them from noise interference. This post reads like something straight out of an advertisement to sell something unnecessary, to the vast majority of end users like a power conditioner or over priced interconnects. There is always someone who has a tough time with the local utility company or their own home service that may require some specialized equipment, but it’s rare with modern audio equipment power supplies to need anything more than a wall plug and decent, average priced wires to bring it all together with a dose of common sense. Bill |
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Post by RichGuy on Jan 4, 2018 0:11:28 GMT -5
The power coming from the power company is very dirty noisy and is very high voltage traveling across huge gauge power lines coated for corrosion protection but usually the cables that are up on poles are not even insulated (that's one reason never to touch a downed power line). Just before the power enters your home the voltage is transformed down to your normal voltage aprox 120 volts. The wires in your walls are just that in your walls NOT running near your equipment or right by the other cables in your system. This is where a nice power conditioner can help better the power that is coming out of your walls and shielded power cables can help keep any noise interference caused by the wires running in close proximity of your equipment and other cables in your system. Personally I don't feel power cables have as much effect on sound quality as other cables (speaker cables and interconnects) however I feel with power cables preventive measures of noise contamination to your system is what is most important with power cables. Power cables and interconnects can benefit from good shielding, while speaker cables are generally not shielded but cable designs like twisted pair and others can help by acting like shielding to protect them from noise interference. This post reads like something straight out of an advertisement to sell something unnecessary, to the vast majority of end users like a power conditioner or over priced interconnects. There is always someone who has a tough time with the local utility company or their own home service that may require some specialized equipment, but it’s rare with modern audio equipment power supplies to need anything more than a wall plug and decent, average priced wires to bring it all together with a dose of common sense. Bill Here's what I see as an advertisement for something unnecessary and an overpriced gimmick. It did not catch on but maybe that's because of common sense. "The Image Control characteristic of the IC20 refers to its switchable horizontal directional pattern, which can be changed by a wireless remote control. Each enclosure actually contains two speaker systems, mounted at right angles to each other and facing 45 degrees to the left and right of the forward axis. In each system, the middle and high frequencies are radiated by a line array of two midrange drivers and two tweeters near the top of the panel. This configuration concentrates sound energy at a listener's ear level and minimizes the effects of ceiling and floor reflections. The woofers are at the bottom, closest to the floor."
While my cables and interconnects are not the very lowest priced, they are definitely not over priced, they are however what you will find in nearly every major professional recording studio. Mogami wire and Neutrik connectors, two of most common and most respected brands in professional audio cable, priced for quality and not priced for audiophile hype. Also my cables are custom made and cost me about 1/3 of what the typical ready made cable sells for from most sellers using the same wire and connectors. My interconnects cost more than Monoprice but less than Blue Jeans Cable and are much better than both. |
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Post by leonski on Jan 4, 2018 0:29:48 GMT -5
Well said.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 4, 2018 1:43:01 GMT -5
Actually, if I don't have a BlueJeans cable the right length for what I want, I frequently make my own cables as well.
I used to go with 8 ga. individual wires, but lately, I've been using 10 or even 12 for speakers and hearing no differences. I used to solder terminals, but most recently have started crimping or using bare wire instead. Again - no differences in sound. Now eventually, there would be some galvanic corrosion potential with amplifier and speaker terminals, but I don't leave wiring in place long enough (it would take years) for any corrosion to occur.
I have heard differences in speaker wires (Kimber & Nordost come to mind), but "different" isn't necessarily "better." The wires that don't exhibit "differences" are more likely neutral, and this includes the ones I make myself. One can spend a LOT of money on "audio jewelry" like interconnects and speaker wires without making any significant difference in the sound. OTOH, your money, your choice. But for me, a low resistance and capacitance conductor is more than sufficient to my needs.
And rereading this post, I see I've gone off-topic and started ranting about speaker wires instead of power cables - I apologize. But the principle's the same - If there's low enough resistance for the amperage required, everything is copacetic. I've made my own power cables too but I get such good ones so cheaply from Monoprice and Parts-Express (and UL-approved, too) that it doesn't make sense for me to roll my own. And now I'm just repeating myself so it's time to shut up and go away.
Bye - Boom
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Post by novisnick on Jan 4, 2018 2:10:49 GMT -5
Actually, if I don't have a BlueJeans cable the right length for what I want, I frequently make my own cables as well. I used to go with 8 ga. individual wires, but lately, I've been using 10 or even 12 for speakers and hearing no differences. I used to solder terminals, but most recently have started crimping or using bare wire instead. Again - no differences in sound. Now eventually, there would be some galvanic corrosion potential with amplifier and speaker terminals, but I don't leave wiring in place long enough (it would take years) for any corrosion to occur. I have heard differences in speaker wires (Kimber & Nordost come to mind), but "different" isn't necessarily "better." The wires that don't exhibit "differences" are more likely neutral, and this includes the ones I make myself. One can spend a LOT of money on "audio jewelry" like interconnects and speaker wires without making any significant difference in the sound. OTOH, your money, your choice. But for me, a low resistance and capacitance conductor is more than sufficient to my needs. And rereading this post, I see I've gone off-topic and started ranting about speaker wires instead of power cables - I apologize. But the principle's the same - If there's low enough resistance for the amperage required, everything is copacetic. I've made my own power cables too but I get such good ones so cheaply from Monoprice and Parts-Express (and UL-approved, too) that it doesn't make sense for me to roll my own. And now I'm just repeating myself so it's time to shut up and go away. Bye - Boom are you posting from California? Just curious! 😋 |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 4, 2018 5:05:27 GMT -5
I've just got a cold & the congestion wakes me up at odd hours. When it does, I visit the Lounge until I get sleepy again.
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klinemj
Emo VIPs 
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,088
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Post by klinemj on Jan 4, 2018 8:23:09 GMT -5
I've just got a cold & the congestion wakes me up at odd hours. When it does, I visit the Lounge until I get sleepy again. Get well soon! And, please don't pass your cooties to Mrs. Boomzilla...she would appreciate that. Mark |
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Post by Talley on Jan 4, 2018 9:52:48 GMT -5
I'm going to make custom cords for my system using all #2awg cable. You watch... it'll be the best stuff on this side of the Mississippi!
and then I'll mod all my equipment... open everything up and start swapping all the cable out for #2awg cable as well.
My stuff is going to sound amazing
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 4, 2018 10:10:36 GMT -5
I'm going to make custom cords for my system using all #2awg cable. You watch... it'll be the best stuff on this side of the Mississippi! and then I'll mod all my equipment... open everything up and start swapping all the cable out for #2awg cable as well. My stuff is going to sound amazing Ahhh YES....except by the time you’re done you won’t be able to lift anything without a crane...! Bill |
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 5, 2018 17:24:56 GMT -5
[quote author=" RichGuy" Here's what I see as an advertisement for something unnecessary and an overpriced gimmick. It did not catch on but maybe that's because of common sense. "The Image Control characteristic of the IC20 refers to its switchable horizontal directional pattern, which can be changed by a wireless remote control. Each enclosure actually contains two speaker systems, mounted at right angles to each other and facing 45 degrees to the left and right of the forward axis. In each system, the middle and high frequencies are radiated by a line array of two midrange drivers and two tweeters near the top of the panel. This configuration concentrates sound energy at a listener's ear level and minimizes the effects of ceiling and floor reflections. The woofers are at the bottom, closest to the floor."
This is a snippet from one of several positive REVIEWS (not an advertisement at all) written between 1987/1988, for that loudspeaker. Though factually incorrect, the review was a positive one, as were all of them. Boston Audio Society, New York Times, High Fidelity and Stereo Review are the ones I’m aware of. A bad one can’t be found, because none exist. Bill |
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Post by leonski on Jan 5, 2018 18:24:21 GMT -5
You'll have trouble finding outright BAD reviews for almost anything.
One job of a reviewer is to find the 'value' in a product.
Now, if it just sounds awful? You'll get mitigating text and an urge to audition yourself if interested.
Electronics that fail (happens) is sometimes replaced quickly by the manufacturer. It is very, very, unusual for
a review to be called 'on account of rain'.
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Post by RichGuy on Jan 5, 2018 19:48:23 GMT -5
[quote author=" RichGuy " Here's what I see as an advertisement for something unnecessary and an overpriced gimmick. It did not catch on but maybe that's because of common sense. "The Image Control characteristic of the IC20 refers to its switchable horizontal directional pattern, which can be changed by a wireless remote control. Each enclosure actually contains two speaker systems, mounted at right angles to each other and facing 45 degrees to the left and right of the forward axis. In each system, the middle and high frequencies are radiated by a line array of two midrange drivers and two tweeters near the top of the panel. This configuration concentrates sound energy at a listener's ear level and minimizes the effects of ceiling and floor reflections. The woofers are at the bottom, closest to the floor."
This is a snippet from one of several positive REVIEWS (not an advertisement at all) written between 1987/1988, for that loudspeaker. Though factually incorrect, the review was a positive one, as were all of them. Boston Audio Society, New York Times, High Fidelity and Stereo Review are the ones I’m aware of. A bad one can’t be found, because none exist. Bill I know it was not an advertisement, the post of mine you quoted was not an advertisement as well, but you said it reads that way to you. Also I am sure all of the REVIEW sources you mentioned all have many positive cable reviews as well. But anyway I see this remote controlled "Image Control" as a very silly and overpriced gimmick and something I'd never want in a speaker. But everyone likes or doesn't like different things, just seems you like to voice your opinion against what others like a little too much, if you don't like cable mods fine just stay out of those threads, I don't go in every silly speaker thread and say how ridiculously silly I think they are. "The Image Control characteristic of the IC20 refers to its switchable horizontal directional pattern, which can be changed by a wireless remote control. Each enclosure actually contains two speaker systems, mounted at right angles to each other and facing 45 degrees to the left and right of the forward axis." |
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 5, 2018 21:11:20 GMT -5
"I know it was not an advertisement," Well you did say it was and I corrected you. There is a difference between using someone's review in that context to validate a point. "the post of mine you quoted was not an advertisement as well, but you said it reads that way to you." Yep,That's exactly right. By the way, it was that stuff you wrote about high power transmission lines and the need for power conditioners that I took issue with, not cable mods (don't know where that came from) "Also I am sure all of the REVIEW sources you mentioned all have many positive cable reviews as well." Uh well yes, I guess so "But anyway I see this remote controlled "Image Control" as a very silly and overpriced gimmick and something I'd never want in a speaker." That is simply an ignorant statement. The Allison Acoustics prisim SHAPE creates a very wide dispersion characteristic, as opposed to a conventional box speaker design. The image control allows the volume of the outboard panels to be reduced, while increasing the output of the inboard panels, creating a tighter image, or vice versa, just as someone with conventional box shaped speakers may toe in or out to tighten the image/soundstage. While the image shifts, the overall output of the system remains constant. Having that type of control of the output (because of the actual shape of the loudspeaker cabinet) makes control of the output a highly useful addition. By no means "a very silly and overpriced gimmick" as you have referred to it. " just seems you like to voice your opinion against what others like a little too much, if you don't like cable mods fine just stay out of those threads" Whoa! (like I said not about cable mods) where are you getting that from?? Um.....the last time I checked, the Emotiva Lounge was a place for a healthy, polite, free and open exchange of ideas and information regarding audio, and all manner of things that are nicely arranged by topics, etc. I have a lot of fun here, poke some innocent fun where and when it is appropriate, and try to provide help, knowledge and information when I can if I have it. That being said, I call a spade a spade. When I read something that I think is overkill or ridiculous, I may challenge it as long as I am respectful about it. An intelligent, healthy debate is what it's all about. And will continue to do so, respectfully, Thank You! very much Bill |
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Post by RichGuy on Jan 5, 2018 22:50:22 GMT -5
"I know it was not an advertisement," By the way, it was that stuff you wrote about high power transmission lines and the need for power conditioners that I took issue with, not cable mods (don't know where that came from) "Also I am sure all of the REVIEW sources you mentioned all have many positive cable reviews as well." Uh well yes, I guess so "But anyway I see this remote controlled "Image Control" as a very silly and overpriced gimmick and something I'd never want in a speaker." That is simply an ignorant statement. The Allison Acoustics prisim SHAPE creates a very wide dispersion characteristic, as opposed to a conventional box speaker design. The image control allows the volume of the outboard panels to be reduced, while increasing the output of the inboard panels, creating a tighter image, or vice versa, just as someone with conventional box shaped speakers may toe in or out to tighten the image/soundstage. While the image shifts, the overall output of the system remains constant. Having that type of control of the output (because of the actual shape of the loudspeaker cabinet) makes control of the output a highly useful addition. By no means "a very silly and overpriced gimmick" as you have referred to it. " just seems you like to voice your opinion against what others like a little too much, if you don't like cable mods fine just stay out of those threads" Whoa! (like I said not about cable mods) where are you getting that from?? Um.....the last time I checked, the Emotiva Lounge was a place for a healthy, polite, free and open exchange of ideas and information regarding audio, and all manner of things that are nicely arranged by topics, etc. I have a lot of fun here, poke some innocent fun where and when it is appropriate, and try to provide help, knowledge and information when I can if I have it. That being said, I call a spade a spade. When I read something that I think is overkill or ridiculous, I may challenge it as long as I am respectful about it. An intelligent, healthy debate is what it's all about. And will continue to do so, respectfully, Thank You! very much Bill Bill Someday you will learn how to use the quote feature properly. Well you did say it was and I corrected you. There is a difference between using someone's review in that context to validate a point. "the post of mine you quoted was not an advertisement as well, but you said it reads that way to you." Yep,That's exactly right. I did just as you did, in fact I was spoofing your comments You said you read my words as "an advertisement to sell something unnecessary" and I said I see these words as "an advertisement to sell something unnecessary", neither were advertisements. That is simply an ignorant statement. I don't think so, but you did describe how I feel about nearly every statement you've made in this thread and many others. However I feel "The Image Control" is a feature I think is an overpriced and silly gimmick and something I would NEVER buy. Whoa! (like I said not about cable mods) where are you getting that from?? Not sure what you even meant to say here, but in nearly every cable mod thread, which this is, you come in to bad mouth things in every cable thread, you are a troll in these threads. I feel the same way about your speakers "Image Control" as you feel about cable mods and I think "The Image Control" feature is an overpriced and silly gimmick, I have no use for and I never will. Maybe you've found something you enjoy about it but it is/was a fad that did not catch on. I do know that I've found something I like with cable mods and I enjoy the changes I make with my system, the things I don't like don't stay in my system and this has been an enjoyable hobby of mine for a long time. Some people feel all amps, DAC's, tubes, cables and such all sound the same, while others definitely don't. I know I don't, I personally find nice improvements that I can enjoy very much by selecting all of the components in my system which I like the most and which compliment each other the most. |
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Post by rbk123 on Jan 6, 2018 0:16:36 GMT -5
Although I pretty much agree with Bill, his quoting fails are pretty damn funny.
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 6, 2018 0:34:33 GMT -5
Rich guy said:
“Someday you will learn how to use the quote feature properly.”
It’s workin just fine!
But getting through to you well, that’s something else.
Geez! I simply disagreed with you about your need for a power conditioner scenario.
I’m no troll, no not at all and Instead of debating it in an intelligent manner, you went out looking for something that you thought would piss me off. (I should be impressed) and it doesn’t.
Roy Allison was a genius and his years of research regarding interaction of listening rooms and loudspeakers is still highly regarded by audio engineers.
The point of that being, gimmicks were never part of his designs, and others here who are acquainted with Roy Allison could tell you this.
Ever heard of AR??
Bill
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