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Post by Bonzo on Jan 10, 2018 9:40:56 GMT -5
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 10, 2018 9:47:15 GMT -5
 Pulling from the other thread what has already been discussed.Wow. That XMC-1 looks a LOT different than the old one. In fact, it looks closer to the new RMC-1 than the old XMC-1. At one point just a bit over a year ago Dan Laufman had indicated that a new XMC-2 was in the works which would have the front three channels Left/Center/Right as fully differential. Is this that processor, just called the XMC-1 instead of XMC-2? Oh, and specifications??? This is correct. Just like the first XMC was huge for us to create the platform that everything will be built on for the future, the new processors (  ) will all be based off the higher end RMC platform. We own this complete design and will spawn many future designs. Ah cool regarding the new XMC-1 (cum "XMC-2"). I eagerly await hearing about it's specifications. I figured that the "XMC-2" would share a lot of DNA with the RMC-1 but was expecting it to be a bit further out given all the work to get everything else out the door. (And truth to say, I would be a far more intelligent person to go for the new XMC-1 than the RMC-1 ... but I've proven repeatedly — often multiple times per day — that I'm not very smart in this area ... :-) So, will this be officially called the "XMC-1, gen2" or something similar? Simply calling it the "new XMC-1" without any distinguishing nomenclature from the "old XMC-1" is going to cause a lot of confusion. Or at least the "2018 XMC-1" ... :-) This is the 3rd generation XMC-1 but will just keep the name "XMC-1" It is almost exactly the original RMC-1 until some of us questioned it and they added the expansion modules. Less 3 output channels or course. It's very nice, but..... Sigh, once again, more of some things and less of others. Why does it always seem to be this way with most electronics and tech these days? (Not just Emotiva for sure) No 7.1 inputs, no analog rec out loop, only 1 Zone out, and loosing the analog RCA outs. More channels, 1 more balanced, a few more digital inputs, and a cooler interface. Steps up and steps back. I personally find it annoying. But again, I can't just blame Emotiva, it's everywhere. Just the way it is I guess. Anyway, this isn't really the thread for this conversation, so I'll move on. Although I think it very well might warrant a new thread discussing these issues, and, what is going to happen to the old XMC-1 and when? Does this mean no more upgrade thing as planned? Or is that still going to happen with this new unit not coming out until 2019 or beyond? This unit being named the XMC-1 raises some questions. Please start another thread and not answer me here if you want to discuss.Hey Bonzo, I see an RCA Analogue Zone2 output. But yeah, no 7.1 analogue inputs (so few people use them any more), no analog record output (even fewer people), and no analog outputs at all (also not used by very many people). All in all it looks like they ditched stuff too few people use to justify the costs. I'm sort of amazed they kept 3 analog RCA inputs. I'm interested in what they're using for the front Left/Center/Right channels. I'm guessing whatever the RMC-1 is using (AK4490EN's the last time we got an update). And I imagine the same DSP or at least a little brother in a related family so they can use mostly the same programming. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jan 10, 2018 11:10:08 GMT -5
Other than major changes to the back panel and the new volume control, I’d be interested in the internal differences between a dual board upgraded XMC-1 G2 and an XMC-1 G3. As mentioned previously there was talk the center channel would also be fully balanced, what are the other differences? There are more than enough inputs for me, though I use both XLR and RCA outputs so I’ll miss those (not crazy about the idea of a Y cable adapter with both hanging off the end — but same issue with the RMC-1).
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 10, 2018 11:22:29 GMT -5
Hey Bonzo, I see an RCA Analogue Zone2 output. Yes, but the XMC-1 Gen 2 had Zone 2 and Zone 3 outputs, so we now have 1 less. Do you have real knowledge of this or are you assuming? I'd argue the people over at Oppo selling 95s, 105s and now 205s would have something to say about that. Along with the people who spent the extra money for those higher end units to have the ability to use the Oppo to decode their 7.1 instead of an outboard processor. We could argue the merits of one over the other all day long, but the facts are Oppo sees a benefit for it, people buying Oppos see a benefit to it, and Emotiva has now shut them off. Again you "know" this or just assuming? Not having this ability is certainly a trend in processors, but I read an article recently in Sound & Vision that basically said manufacturers are full if schiit when they take away such basic functions just because they "think" people aren't using them anymore. Just because it's happening doesn't make it right, nor does it actually follow what consumers really want. Having at least 1 analog record output is stereo system requirements 101. It's a shame our basic recording and transferring rights are being taken away and no one seems to even care. A big WTF in my book. Well that depends. I'd be willing to guess that of all XMC-1 owners, that half use the XLR's connections and half use the RCA connections. That's probably because of what cables people have more than anything, but many also prefer one over the other. Emotiva's answer (fix) is to provide 13 XLR to RCA adapters (at least that's what they've said with the RMC-1 so I'm assuming they would do that same here) with each and every unit sold so people don't have to use the XLRs. I'm not sure how one method justifies cost over the other, but I have no clue there. I also don't really have a problem here either way, but the simple fact is, it is LESS than what people had before in the original XMC-1. I'd like to argue this point. So if that's the case, why in the heck do they have 8 digital inputs on this unit? EIGHT? The original XMC-1 has 6 and I've not heard one person complain there weren't enough. Who needs 8 digital inputs and 8 HDMI inputs at the same time? Are there people that use both HDMI and digital simultaneously for all their stuff? In other words, if losing inputs based on assumptions of what people don't use is the reason for assumed cost cutting, this unit isn't a good example because it has too many digital inputs that most people aren't using. Note: I'm not complaining about having more inputs, I'm just saying that cutting ones over here and having more than anyone needs over there doesn't equate to cost cutting measures. If this were my decision, I'd be taking away 2 to 4 of those digital inputs and adding back another RCA analog input, and even more importantly, an analog record out. The super big surprise on this unit is that they kept the 2 digital record outputs. I think it's awesome! But really, how many people use those either? Want to cut some costs, why is there still a built in tuner? How many people actually listen to over the air radio on their home stereo units? And for those people that do, they could follow Emotiva's answer to many other connection pitfalls by simply saying "buy a separate tuner box." Emotiva could even make one to sell. So what would you expect, only 1 for vinyl people? What about people with out board players they really like the sound of, like even ERC-3 people? What if you have an Oppo 105, an ERC-3, and a turn table? No, I'm sorry, but in my book no high end processor should have any less than 5 analog inputs to keep all current and future options open. |
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Post by millst on Jan 10, 2018 11:45:27 GMT -5
Probably already discussed in the RMC1 thread...not sure I'm a fan of the front panel. Sure, it's simple/elegant, but some of those buttons on the current XMC-1 are very convenient once in a while. Mine is in a cabinet so I probably use it less than most, too.
-tm
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Post by Casey Leedom on Jan 10, 2018 12:37:37 GMT -5
Bonzo, you're right. I don't "know" any of the things I claimed are true with regard how little used 7.1 analog inputs are, etc. I should have said "I think". My bad. The truth is, someone would have to do an industry survey which would need to be segmented by price. We don't know yet what the SRP will be on the new XMC-1, "gen3", but it'll probably be in the range $3-3.5K is my guess. And that may be a sweet spot for 7.1 analog input people ... Again, survey. I think there are only 4 digital inputs beyond the 8 HDMI inputs. It looks like you can either use S/PDIF copper coax or optical? There are certainly only 1-4 labels ... We'll have to see when the official specifications are released. On the 3 RCA analog inputs, I was just thinking that it might have made sense to go with all XLRs. You can take an RCA cable and use an RCA-to-XLR adapter with no signal loss issues, but having all XLR inputs would have allowed for all the low-level signal cables to be shielded. Still, over all, I think it's a pretty compelling product for my needs. Granted, I'll probably go over-the-top and get the RMC-1, but still, pretty nifty. And a welcome announcement that we're looking at something like ~3 months to general availability. That ~probably~ means that the RMC-1 isn't too far behind ... Casey
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Post by enricoclaudio on Jan 10, 2018 13:12:54 GMT -5
I can see right above the USB asynchronous connector a Coaxial connector with a WiFi Wireless symbol. Is that for a WiFi antenna? The RMC-1 doesn't have that...
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Post by foggy1956 on Jan 10, 2018 13:36:54 GMT -5
Bonzo , you're right. I don't "know" any of the things I claimed are true with regard how little used 7.1 analog inputs are, etc. I should have said "I think". My bad. The truth is, someone would have to do an industry survey which would need to be segmented by price. We don't know yet what the SRP will be on the new XMC-1, "gen3", but it'll probably be in the range $3-3.5K is my guess. And that may be a sweet spot for 7.1 analog input people ... Again, survey. I think there are only 4 digital inputs beyond the 8 HDMI inputs. It looks like you can either use S/PDIF copper coax or optical? There are certainly only 1-4 labels ... We'll have to see when the official specifications are released. On the 3 RCA analog inputs, I was just thinking that it might have made sense to go with all XLRs. You can take an RCA cable and use an RCA-to-XLR adapter with no signal loss issues, but having all XLR inputs would have allowed for all the low-level signal cables to be shielded. Still, over all, I think it's a pretty compelling product for my needs. Granted, I'll probably go over-the-top and get the RMC-1, but still, pretty nifty. And a welcome announcement that we're looking at something like ~3 months to general availability. That ~probably~ means that the RMC-1 isn't too far behind ... Casey I am curious as to what a person who bought 1 of these would use as a 7.1 analog input which it seems they would have to believe provided a better sound than the dac in the xmc? |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 10, 2018 13:59:51 GMT -5
I am curious as to what a person who bought 1 of these would use as a 7.1 analog input which it seems they would have to believe provided a better sound than the dac in the xmc? Per my post above, someone who spent the extra coin to buy an Oppo 95, 105 or 205. That's potentially a lot of people. I find it interesting that this feature has mostly been considered a higher end thing that only expensive receivers and processors possess. When it was in a lower priced model, those models were highly praised. It's been this way for as many years as I can remember. Now here on the Emotiva forum in the last 2+ years it's become deemed unnecessary. Well, not for me. IMO, its more inexpensive products like the MC-700 and the yet to come Emersa Processor that should lack connections, as their price point reflects. But when you start using words like "flagship" and "high end" and "monster" and things start costing $2500+, they better deliver those goods. For me that means connecting the kitchen sink so to speak. What's next 3 years from now, a $7500 flagship processor that only has 12 HDMI inputs? Maybe, but I won't be buying it. |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 10, 2018 14:16:50 GMT -5
Bonzo, you're right. I don't "know" any of the things I claimed are true with regard how little used 7.1 analog inputs are, etc. I should have said "I think". My bad. No bad on your part for me. I hate having to put IMO after every sentence, all good.   I don't own one, so someone can confirm, but I'm 99% sure on the original XMC-1 they could all be assigned separately. Just like the Analog Input #1, where there are RCA and XLR on that same label, they can actually be assigned separately as if it's two separate inputs. So for now I'm going to assume it's 8 total digital inputs. That would be sweet, but if I have to fight for real state on the back, I would prefer more inputs and the record outs than more XLR's. Now where I could see all XLR's would be on the RMC-1. I think it's pretty common knowledge here on the forum that I'm an input junkie. And I'm a relentless pit bull about it. It's the one thing I've dogged the XMC-1 on since the beginning (and a big reason I didn't buy one), and now this new version is worse if you ask me. It has less connections, and I'm not for it. I ain't changing. I get why analog video stuff went away, but there are still available work arounds if you need them. As for the 7.1 analog inputs and stereo record outs, if you don't have them at all, there aren't any work arounds. Zone 2 is alright but only if there are 2 so you can still have at least 1 zone out. |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 10, 2018 14:27:21 GMT -5
A question for Emotiva.....does this mean the original plan to update the XMC-1 Gen 2 to Atmos/DTS-X that many people have been patiently waiting for over a year for now got scrapped?
I mean naming this the XMC-2 meant it wasn't necessarily a direct replacement. Naming this new product the XMC-1 suggests otherwise.
Or will the planned update still be available for current owners of the XMC-1 Gen 2 so they don't have to replace their machines? And then this new XMC-1 Gen 3 is basically just for new sales after a certain date? Assuming after a certain point the XMC-1 Gen 2 will be discontinued?
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Post by 405x5 on Jan 10, 2018 15:12:54 GMT -5
I own the original XMC, and took delivery, Oct. 2014.
I have enjoyed it immensely, and continue to do so.
Between then and now, the firmware updates have made it a near perfect machine for my needs.
It was also a pleasure to network with technical support on two of those, updates.
Going forward, I will continue to enjoy this wonderful forum provided by the good folks at Emotiva and pass on all the processor threads.....and get with tech. Support if I’ve got a question.
Here the crystal ball 🔮 makes my head spin
Bill
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Post by Casey Leedom on Jan 10, 2018 15:27:38 GMT -5
... I think it's pretty common knowledge here on the forum that I'm an input junkie. ... Yeah, I'm probably at the complete other end of the spectrum. For inputs, I currently only have a single HDMI input in normal use (Oppo UDP-203), one guest HDMI, one Guest DVI, one optical S/PDIF, and one analog RCA in. For outputs I only have a single HDMI out, 5.1 XLRs out to the amplifier, and a stereo RCA pair off to Zone 2[1]. So my needs are ridiculously small with regard to I/O. My real interest is in the highest possible audio quality I can get. So I'll probably go with the RMC-1 just on that basis ... :-) Casey [1] Note, for my DMC-1 which has no HDMI/DIVI, all the HDMIs/DVIs are currently going directly to the "TV" and I have one additional optical S/PDIF going from the Oppo to the DMC-1. But the description above is how I'd hook up a new XMC-1/RMC-1. |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 10, 2018 15:40:09 GMT -5
... I think it's pretty common knowledge here on the forum that I'm an input junkie. ... Yeah, I'm probably at the complete other end of the spectrum. For inputs, I currently only have a single HDMI input in normal use (Oppo UDP-203), one guest HDMI, one Guest DVI, one optical S/PDIF, and one analog RCA in. For outputs I only have a single HDMI out, 5.1 XLRs out to the amplifier, and a stereo RCA pair off to Zone 2[1]. So my needs are ridiculously small with regard to I/O. My real interest is in the highest possible audio quality I can get. So I'll probably go with the RMC-1 just on that basis ... :-) Casey [1] Note, for my DMC-1 which has no HDMI/DIVI, all the HDMIs/DVIs are currently going directly to the "TV" and I have one additional optical S/PDIF going from the Oppo to the DMC-1. But the description above is how I'd hook up a new XMC-1/RMC-1. THIS is what I think of when I hear the words "flagship processor." Overkill? Maybe. But I think "flagships" should have some overkill built in. No one is going to complain about overkill in the sound quality department. Why not inputs and flexibility?  Of course some modern updating for Atmos / DTS-X would be necessary, but you get the idea. And what about this guy? From Emotiva themselves. They used to have what I'm talking about. Yet as time goes by we get more in some ways but less in others. And I'm just supposed to swallow the less and move on. Nope...not happening.  |
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bootman
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Typing useless posts on internet forums....
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Post by bootman on Jan 10, 2018 15:46:45 GMT -5
Can dirac be applied to the 7.1 inputs or are they treated as direct?
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Jan 10, 2018 15:49:28 GMT -5
Of course some modern updating for Atmos / DTS-X would be necessary, but you get the idea. So who is currently offering all of your needed analog inputs AND offering Atmos/DTS-X processing over them? I can't think of any since I thought those were HDMI fed only formats. (I could be wrong) |
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Post by simpleman68 on Jan 10, 2018 15:54:34 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm probably at the complete other end of the spectrum. For inputs, I currently only have a single HDMI input in normal use (Oppo UDP-203), one guest HDMI, one Guest DVI, one optical S/PDIF, and one analog RCA in. For outputs I only have a single HDMI out, 5.1 XLRs out to the amplifier, and a stereo RCA pair off to Zone 2[1]. So my needs are ridiculously small with regard to I/O. My real interest is in the highest possible audio quality I can get. So I'll probably go with the RMC-1 just on that basis ... :-) Casey [1] Note, for my DMC-1 which has no HDMI/DIVI, all the HDMIs/DVIs are currently going directly to the "TV" and I have one additional optical S/PDIF going from the Oppo to the DMC-1. But the description above is how I'd hook up a new XMC-1/RMC-1. THIS is what I think of when I hear the words "flagship processor." Overkill? Maybe. But I think "flagships" should have some overkill built in. No one is going to complain about overkill in the sound quality department. Why not inputs and flexibility? Of course some modern updating for Atmos / DTS-X would be necessary, but you get the idea. And what about this guy? From Emotiva themselves. They used to have what I'm talking about. Yet as time goes by we get more in some ways but less in others. And I'm just supposed to swallow the less and move on. Nope...not happening. Not to stir the pot here, but if I were to drop $5k on a dedicated theater processor, and I did, I would not want all that extra wiring, boards and in/outputs. I'd expect that to be more along the lines of a $500-1500 AVR from Denon et al. Heck seems a lot of folks are bypassing the processor and running the vid signal directly to the monitor/projector to keep things clean and simple. Scott |
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Post by rbk123 on Jan 10, 2018 16:01:24 GMT -5
I am curious as to what a person who bought 1 of these would use as a 7.1 analog input which it seems they would have to believe provided a better sound than the dac in the xmc? Per my post above, someone who spent the extra coin to buy an Oppo 95, 105 or 205. That's potentially a lot of people. The OPPO buyers " could" take their 7.1 output and input it into an XMC (if the XMC had this input like you request), but how many would actually do it? Foggy's point is that the 7.1 processed output on the RMC would no doubt be superior than the 7.1 on the OPPO's, so why would any Oppo buyer want to do that, even if they had the option? |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 10, 2018 16:05:18 GMT -5
Of course some modern updating for Atmos / DTS-X would be necessary, but you get the idea. So who is currently offering all of your needed analog inputs AND offering Atmos/DTS-X processing over them? I can't think of any since I thought those were HDMI fed only formats. (I could be wrong) Unfortunately, no one totally. And that has been my dilemma to upgrading. I only went with the Marantz 8002a because of a good deal. It's not perfect either. But at least I've found work arounds with the 7.1 inputs, 3 HDMI outputs, and 2 Zone outputs. I was holding out for the updated XMC-1, but alas, got sick of the merry-go-round. I think it falls under my original quote here. In less than 10 years time I've gone from remarkably hip in the stereo system world to a total dinosaur I guess. And like I said, what bothers me is just how easily people give up their rights and abilities anymore without even giving it a second thought. |
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Post by geebo on Jan 10, 2018 16:10:55 GMT -5
So who is currently offering all of your needed analog inputs AND offering Atmos/DTS-X processing over them? I can't think of any since I thought those were HDMI fed only formats. (I could be wrong) Unfortunately, no one totally. And that has been my dilemma to upgrading. I only went with the Marantz 8002a because of a good deal. It's not perfect either. But at least I've found work arounds with the 7.1 inputs, 3 HDMI outputs, and 2 Zone outputs. I was holding out for the updated XMC-1, but alas, got sick of the merry-go-round. I think it falls under my original quote here. In less than 10 years time I've gone from remarkably hip in the stereo system world to a total dinosaur I guess. And like I said, what bothers me is just how easily people give up their rights and abilities anymore without even giving it a second thought. Most people aren't giving up anything though. They simply don't need all the inputs that you require. Don't take this the wrong way but maybe you're the dinosaur here. |
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) will all be based off the higher end RMC platform. We own this complete design and will spawn many future designs.
