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Post by enricoclaudio on Jan 11, 2018 17:04:19 GMT -5
So looks to me that the New XMC-1 Gen 3 is basically the old RMC-1 3R chassis that was discarded back in 2016 with 3 less XLR outs.  |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 11, 2018 17:45:22 GMT -5
THIS is what I think of when I hear the words "flagship processor." Overkill? Maybe. But I think "flagships" should have some overkill built in. No one is going to complain about overkill in the sound quality department. Why not inputs and flexibility? Of course some modern updating for Atmos / DTS-X would be necessary, but you get the idea.  Let's see. The Denon AVP- A1HDCI (as pictured above) was first released in 2008 for the tidy sum of $7,499. Sometime after that an upgrade (many new features) was made available for another $1,000 (and the 59 pound, 7RU high unit had to be returned to Denon for the upgrade). So, $8,500 in today's dollars including manufacturers price escalation could be somewhere in the neighborhood of (maybe) ten to twelve thousand dollars. Way more than any projected price for the XMC-1 Get. 3. And even more than double the projected price of the RMC-1. So you pays your money and you get all the inputs and outputs you want. Russ Well I need to answer this. I think it's going to be hard for me to keep from talking about inputs.  I get what you are saying, but that goes against everything Emotiva is supposedly about, bang for the buck audiophile level equipment. Emotiva is the brand that brings you what the other guys can't all for a much lower price. When I was looking for amps years ago, the next closest things in town were twice as much money than Emotiva, and offered less meat. And other major brands were like 3 - 5 times the money. So if you do the math backwards, and even exaggerate the Denon "el whoppo" at $10,000, in Emotiva terms, that should be say about 1/2 the price, or $5000. At the $8500 you mention, that's $4250. What did that monstrous Sherbourn unit cost when it was on sale? I don't know. Perhaps we could use that as a better starting point for comparison. The thing is, I have to assume actual physical inputs and outputs are certainly not the most costly part of any processor. What I'm talking about might be considered chump change compared to the processing, Dirac, boards, and all the other stuff. Once you go through the work of designing it to work with 2 analog inputs, how much more could making it 6 be? Isn't the majority of the cost in the initial designing, not the metal connectors and wiring? I'm in the production business, so unless someone tells me each extra set of physical inputs costs another $150 each, I'm not buying the added cost argument. And really, I'm not asking for all that much, or anything the original XMC-1 didn't really have (if it had only had Atmos/DTS:X processing and 4 height channels without reassigning I would have bought it a long time ago). At least 1 RCA record out - check. 7.1 RCA inputs - check. 1 XLR input - check. At least 4 digital inputs - check. At least 1 Digital output - check (2 of them even). My main original gripe with th eXMC-1 years ago was not enough analog inputs, but you know, if there is at least 1, then there are work arounds like exterior switchers. If it doens't even have a single analog RCA output, there isn't really any work around (other than using the Zones which doesn't work as well, and then ties up those for the purpose they should be used for). Same goes for 7.1 inputs. In my opinion, loosing the record outs is a true shame, and the 7.1 inputs is just bummer. Okay really, I've harped enough. It appears I'm talking to empty space or a brick wall on this topic. That's okay. But I'm sure you guys are just as sick of reading my posts as I am trying to explain myself. |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 11, 2018 17:49:02 GMT -5
So looks to me that the New XMC-1 Gen 3 is basically the old RMC-1 3R chassis that was discarded back in 2016 with 3 less XLR outs. View AttachmentYes, basically. |
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Post by rbk123 on Jan 11, 2018 17:52:47 GMT -5
Well I need to answer this. I think it's going to be hard for me to keep from talking about inputs. You held out a little longer than I would have guessed.  |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 11, 2018 17:54:42 GMT -5
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richb
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Post by richb on Jan 11, 2018 17:59:04 GMT -5
The XMC-1 makes more sense than the new Marantz 8805. It shed the 7.1 analog inputs and AM/FM but kept the composite and component video support. What?  There is a phono stage but no DAC IN. Feature wise, the XMC-1 Gen 3 makes a lot more sense.  - Rich |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 11, 2018 18:12:46 GMT -5
The XMC-1 makes more sense than the new Marantz 8805. It shed the 7.1 analog inputs and AM/FM but kept the composite and component video support. What? There is a phono stage but no DAC IN. Feature wise, the XMC-1 Gen 3 makes a lot more sense. View Attachment - Rich Actually, if you look, it still has the 7.1 inputs. DAC in? That's what analog RCA inputs are for and it has 6 of them. What it lacks most important is digital outputs (Emotiva has) and analog outputs. Since it has 2 Zone outputs, one can be used as a record out and still leaves one for Zone duties. Not the best, but it should work. And since it has 3 HDMI outputs, the work around is to use that third output with an audio extractor to get the digital audio signal. I haven't read up on the processing power yet as to how many channels can be driven at the same time, but I'm guessing since the 8802a does 7.2.4 it's at least 7.2.6, more than the XMC-1 in either format. And it's possible it might even do 9.2.6 (something the RMC-1 can't even do), but like I said, I haven't read up on it yet. EDIT: Actually, they have done what Emotiva should do, which is to dump the Radio and just have inputs for it. And they left the dual RCA and XLR outputs, which are assignable. So there is way more flexibility there. In essence, I disagree with you. I think the Marantz makes more over all sense, even though it's not perfect either. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 11, 2018 18:50:24 GMT -5
In my opinion, loosing the record outs is a true shame Just gotta ask Bonzo, what are you recording and what are you recording it with and onto? I don't have any recording equipment these days, unless we count the MacMini to rip my CD's to iTunes. Oh, and I do record in the cable box, so I can slip watch and skip adds. Way back I used to record onto a reel to reel tape deck, then a cassette deck and finally an AVR, but they are all long gone. I don't really record anything analogue, haven't for more than 10 years. Of course I do copy digital files to/from iPhones and iPads but analogue, I can't remember the last time I recorded anything. Cheers Gary |
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Post by Bridger on Jan 11, 2018 18:57:07 GMT -5
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jan 11, 2018 19:02:22 GMT -5
In my opinion, loosing the record outs is a true shame Just gotta ask Bonzo, what are you recording and what are you recording it with and onto? I don't have any recording equipment these days, unless we count the MacMini to rip my CD's to iTunes. Oh, and I do record in the cable box, so I can slip watch and skip adds. Way back I used to record onto a reel to reel tape deck, then a cassette deck and finally an AVR, but they are all long gone. I don't really record anything analogue, haven't for more than 10 years. Of course I do copy digital files to/from iPhones and iPads but analogue, I can't remember the last time I recorded anything. Cheers Gary I don’t agree with Bonzo ’s contention that a ‘Flagship’ product should have every possible input, different companies have different Flagships. However, I do wish both the new XMC-1 and the RMC-1 did have traditional analog tape outs, it gives flexibility in how you record and where the ADC takes place. I currently use the tape outs on the XMC-1, and would like to continue to have that flexibility. But I see they’re gone, and I’ll figure out how to get by. |
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Jan 11, 2018 19:15:42 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that's a typo. They meant to say "RMC-1" and not "XMC-1" (in reference to the $5k price). |
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richb
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Post by richb on Jan 11, 2018 20:04:30 GMT -5
Actually, if you look, it still has the 7.1 inputs. DAC in? That's what analog RCA inputs are for and it has 6 of them. What it lacks most important is digital outputs (Emotiva has) and analog outputs. Since it has 2 Zone outputs, one can be used as a record out and still leaves one for Zone duties. Not the best, but it should work. And since it has 3 HDMI outputs, the work around is to use that third output with an audio extractor to get the digital audio signal. I haven't read up on the processing power yet as to how many channels can be driven at the same time, but I'm guessing since the 8802a does 7.2.4 it's at least 7.2.6, more than the XMC-1 in either format. And it's possible it might even do 9.2.6 (something the RMC-1 can't even do), but like I said, I haven't read up on it yet. EDIT: Actually, they have done what Emotiva should do, which is to dump the Radio and just have inputs for it. And they left the dual RCA and XLR outputs, which are assignable. So there is way more flexibility there. In essence, I disagree with you. I think the Marantz makes more over all sense, even though it's not perfect either. You're right. It does have 7.1 analog inputs. Why wouldn't all channels be driven at a time from a processor, it has no amps? I don't think we know what either will do, only the number of connections. Both have dunsel features: Marantz has composite and components connections and ISF video processing (I have never heard of anyone calibrating with the audio/video processor). The XMC-1 has an AM/FM radio. But I see your point. With 7.1 and digital outs, there is some additional functionality there. - Rich |
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Post by enricoclaudio on Jan 11, 2018 20:20:03 GMT -5
The Marantz could have all the legacy inputs you want and even more but still running Audyssey which in my opinion is hundreds of miles behind Dirac Live and the main reason I went from Marantz to Emotiva. The only way I would come back to Marantz/Denon is if they ditch that Audyssey crap in favor of Dirac Live or RoomPerfect.
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 11, 2018 21:19:30 GMT -5
Just gotta ask Bonzo, what are you recording and what are you recording it with and onto? I don't have any recording equipment these days, unless we count the MacMini to rip my CD's to iTunes. Oh, and I do record in the cable box, so I can slip watch and skip adds. Way back I used to record onto a reel to reel tape deck, then a cassette deck and finally an AVR, but they are all long gone. I don't really record anything analogue, haven't for more than 10 years. Of course I do copy digital files to/from iPhones and iPads but analogue, I can't remember the last time I recorded anything. I don’t agree with Bonzo ’s contention that a ‘Flagship’ product should have every possible input, different companies have different Flagships. However, I do wish both the new XMC-1 and the RMC-1 did have traditional analog tape outs, it gives flexibility in how you record and where the ADC takes place. I currently use the tape outs on the XMC-1, and would like to continue to have that flexibility. But I see they’re gone, and I’ll figure out how to get by. Pardon the question, but what do you actually use the tape outs for? Cheers Gary |
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Post by enricoclaudio on Jan 11, 2018 21:43:25 GMT -5
I don’t agree with Bonzo ’s contention that a ‘Flagship’ product should have every possible input, different companies have different Flagships. However, I do wish both the new XMC-1 and the RMC-1 did have traditional analog tape outs, it gives flexibility in how you record and where the ADC takes place. I currently use the tape outs on the XMC-1, and would like to continue to have that flexibility. But I see they’re gone, and I’ll figure out how to get by. Pardon the question, but what do you actually use the tape outs for? Cheers Gary To record TV shows on his Betamax SL-8600   PS: Kidding aside, I do too want to know what do you guys use these days the tape outs for? |
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Post by jacketfan on Jan 11, 2018 22:15:20 GMT -5
I want to go on the record to agree with Bonzo that I would like to see 7.1 inputs as well.
I would like the ability to compare my Oppo to the XMC. Or any other device. Or the ability to have one input being the Oppo without Dirac versus the XMC. I suspect there are other variations on comparisons. Without 7.1 inputs, you do not have that opportunity.
I also would like to know what record out is valuable for these days. All kidding aside.
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Post by tutetibiimperes on Jan 11, 2018 23:52:48 GMT -5
I haven't used 7.1 analog ins since I had a DVD-A player in the pre-HDMI days, and I'm of the opinion that any modern DAC is as good as any other with the same specs, but it does seem to be an odd omission.
Since the unit already has six analog RCA ins, adding another couple and making them software configurable could allow owners who want multichannel analog inputs to just configure them that way in the menu system. There seems to be plenty of space on the rear plate right next to them where the XMC-1 logo is, maybe there could even be four more RCA-ins added so people could configure 7.1 multichannel in and still have another pair to use for random retro devices.
I do really like the fact that all of the HDMI ins and outs appear to be full HDMI 2.0a/HDCP 2.2 though. It's a major pet peeve of mine when a unit has two HDMI outputs but one is only HDMI 1.4.
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Post by annjones13 on Jan 12, 2018 0:24:16 GMT -5
Pardon the question, but what do you actually use the tape outs for? Cheers Gary To record TV shows on his Betamax SL-8600 View AttachmentPS: Kidding aside, I do too want to know what do you guys use these days the tape outs for? I use a pair for input to wireless stereo headphones. I need my zone 2 for an actual zone 2 Ann |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 12, 2018 0:30:36 GMT -5
To record TV shows on his Betamax SL-8600 PS: Kidding aside, I do too want to know what do you guys use these days the tape outs for? I use a pair for input to wireless stereo headphones. I need my zone 2 for an actual zone 2 Ann Strangely enough I use the headphone output for my wireless headphones  That way I can use the remote to control the volume.  Cheers Gary |
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Post by cwt on Jan 12, 2018 2:31:45 GMT -5
I haven't used 7.1 analog ins since I had a DVD-A player in the pre-HDMI days, and I'm of the opinion that any modern DAC is as good as any other with the same specs, but it does seem to be an odd omission. Yes ;its worth remembering that the reason we got the multi analog ins was the absolute necessity /restriction until hdmi1.2 on sending dsd and dvd-a over a digital link.As for sound quality ide rather not subject pre amp level analog signals to the emi/rf of a pre pro/avr. Oh and of course one of the main reasons to buy a atmos/dts-x pre pro is to utilise its decoders . Bit hard to enjoy object codecs from an oppo [must be bitstreamed and an oppo cant decode the metadata  ] And of course we all want a rats nest of cables behind our components .. I would also expect any components that do have 7.1 in to be passthrough with no a/d d/a conversions [being quite rare] and subsequently no bass management or room eq . Wonderful Something tells me the expansion slots in the RMC1 will be the solution for those who do want it ; Dan mentioned analog ins at CES last year.. My 2.0C rant |
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] And of course we all want a rats nest of cables behind our components .. 