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Post by davidl81 on Jul 5, 2018 20:40:44 GMT -5
Lets get back on the thread topic. Since I sort of brought it up already, what is going to make this new gen 3 XMC worth having over an upgraded original? What really makes it a worthy replacement, or even an alternative? Seriously. What makes it better than the original? I'd like to know. The center channel is balanced. Big whoopie ding dong. Nope. It has less inputs and less outputs. Nope, that's going backwards. It will do 7.2.4, so that will be equal. It will have what appears to be a cooler user interface and front knob. Nice, but... The HDMI board will be the exact same, so that isn't it. Lonnie said for 2 channel stereo it will sound the same. So equal there. So perhaps because it will have a more up to date processor for the surround sound thing? Is that the big difference? I'm just not sure. Anyone know, or have any thoughts? I don’t think the market for the G3 is G2 users looking to upgrade, I think the market is “big box” AVR buyers looking to go component. If you have a fully upgraded G2 then the differences are going to be mostly cosmetic. But if you are someone like me who has a Marantz AVR I am the perfect customer for the G3. I look at it like upgrading from a G1 XPA to a G2, the differences are small and made just to keep the product line current. Not made to make G1 buyers upgrade. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jul 5, 2018 21:07:52 GMT -5
As for the sound, that's a whole lot of preference going on there, much like speakers. For clarification, the AVM60 to me just didn't sound quite right particularly when fed via a quality analogue source (in my case a Turn Table, ERC-3 and Oppo 203). Like many I don't put a lot of emphasis on test results but in this case the harmonic results correspond to what I was hearing. For sure some personal preference at work, but not just that. Cheers Gary |
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Post by socketman on Jul 5, 2018 21:24:55 GMT -5
Cue Dire Straits, I WANT MY XMC
2
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Post by cwt on Jul 5, 2018 22:43:31 GMT -5
Lets get back on the thread topic. Since I sort of brought it up already, what is going to make this new gen 3 XMC worth having over an upgraded original? What really makes it a worthy replacement, or even an alternative? Seriously. What makes it better than the original? I'd like to know. Well ; sound quality differences between the gen 2's Burr brown dacs and the "gen3"s AKM'S and analog stages would be the main consideration Bonzo imo . emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/859046/thread Also niceties like extra dirac presets which the gen2 wont get.. Possibly the new simplified dirac program mooted to be coming if its not just new firmware ? . Concerning applying dirac to the ceiling speakers I would have a lot more faith in the XMC2 doing this than the gen2 which has just rerouted the zone outs  Hopefully there will be surprises to come ; maybe multichannel dsd over usb ?? |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 6, 2018 1:03:34 GMT -5
... Unfortunately, the XMC-1 Gen 2 with Atmos upgrade isn't out, nor does it appear it will be out until next year. And it takes away the rec outs to do it. ...On my comparison spreadsheet I believe I incorrectly showed the Tape outs being repurposed for Atmos/DTS:X (I’ve since fixed it and will repost). I can’t find the post right now, and they’ve taken the “technology enhancement” verbiage off the website, but the last I read they are using the Z1 Mix outputs and Z2 Zone outputs to get the .4 for Atmos/DTS:X. That should leave the Tape outputs available as a fixed level stereo output, this is a unique feature of the upgraded G2 over the other models. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 6, 2018 1:16:28 GMT -5
... Also niceties like extra dirac presets which the gen2 wont get.. Has this been confirmed? Last I heard they would “look into it” or “are trying”, has that changed? |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jul 6, 2018 1:33:10 GMT -5
Well ; sound quality differences between the gen 2's Burr brown dacs and the "gen3"s AKM'S Personally I'm more inclined to like the Ti Burr Brown DAC's, I've never heard a Burr Brown DAC that I didn't like. What's the title of that Will Rogers book ........... Never Met a Man I Didn't Like .......... that's it.  Cheers Gary |
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Post by cwt on Jul 6, 2018 1:54:29 GMT -5
... Also niceties like extra dirac presets which the gen2 wont get.. Has this been confirmed? Last I heard they would “look into it” or “are trying”, has that changed? Yes that's correct Bruce ; not applicable to your pdf yet . I was trying to contrast with the current model ; so many have brought it up over the years  I think its likely considering avrs like the NAD T758V3 have 3 of them built in |
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Post by cwt on Jul 6, 2018 2:34:16 GMT -5
Well ; sound quality differences between the gen 2's Burr brown dacs and the "gen3"s AKM'S Personally I'm more inclined to like the Ti Burr Brown DAC's, I've never heard a Burr Brown DAC that I didn't like. What's the title of that Will Rogers book ........... Never Met a Man I Didn't Like .......... that's it. Cheers Gary \ Well Gary I cant complain about the ESS sabres in my CXA-5100 ; thanks again for steering me towards a value proposition ; you saved me a couple of thou over an anthem av60 say With the dacs it may be to do with its analogue stages ; upgraded opamps and better MELF-type thin film resistors though rather than the tricked up anti jitter properties of the Sabres  |
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Post by Bonzo on Jul 6, 2018 10:21:07 GMT -5
I don’t think the market for the G3 is G2 users looking to upgrade, I think the market is “big box” AVR buyers looking to go component. If you have a fully upgraded G2 then the differences are going to be mostly cosmetic. But if you are someone like me who has a Marantz AVR I am the perfect customer for the G3. I look at it like upgrading from a G1 XPA to a G2, the differences are small and made just to keep the product line current. Not made to make G1 buyers upgrade. You answer Segways into a different topic that people have only lightly speculated about. Asked directly, will the Gen3 be a flat out replacement, or will it live side by side with the old Gen 2. Personally, I think it's a replacement. But so far the general hints coming from Emotiva have said that as long as the Gen 2 sells they'll keep making it. I'm not so sure. I agree that there is basically zero reason to upgrade from a Gen 2 to a Gen 3. Actually, I think it's less than zero. Unless the Gen 3 does something crazy to improve the sound, I think the Gen 2 is a superior piece to have, at least for me anyway. Yes, both XMC-1's are for people who want to move up the ladder. Exactly. But I'm just asking what does the the Gen 3 have/do that makes it a worthy successor to the Gen 2? From the back panel to what we really know, I'm currently thinking not much. I like the Gen 2 better myself. Hence why I almost think the idea of buying a Gen 2 with the Atmos upgrade for $3000 makes much more sense than buying the Gen 3 for the rumored $3500. $500 more for what? I guess that's what I'm asking. |
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Post by Bonzo on Jul 6, 2018 10:27:03 GMT -5
As for the sound, that's a whole lot of preference going on there, much like speakers. For clarification, the AVM60 to me just didn't sound quite right particularly when fed via a quality analogue source (in my case a Turn Table, ERC-3 and Oppo 203). Like many I don't put a lot of emphasis on test results but in this case the harmonic results correspond to what I was hearing. For sure some personal preference at work, but not just that. Cheers Gary Well, I still think it's mostly a matter of preference. There are plenty of people out there that like the AVM60, or even the 8802a or 8805. There are well respected people here on this very forum that have them and not the XMC-1. You heard something you didn't like. Cool. But some may actually like that sound. Plenty of people here love the Klipsch sound. I don't. Doesn't make either right or wrong, just different. I've heard so many people rant and rave over the Oppo 105. Now that I have one, I most certainly don't agree with a lot of people. So there is a ton of preference in what we are discussing. |
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Post by Bonzo on Jul 6, 2018 10:35:02 GMT -5
Now THERE is an answer. Thank you. But then it begs the next question, does that actually make it better? Even Keith will say the the Sabre DAC's look awesome on paper, dead flat. But they simply don't sound that way. So until people actually "hear" the 2 units side by side, who knows for sure. Sounds good on paper in the mean time though. Has any of this been confirmed? Now this I could buy into. If it has more processing power, than yeah, it most certainly could be better. But I'd have to wonder by how much? There is already so much debate over ceiling speakers anyway, what would the real difference be between a 90% good processor and a 95% good processor? Just wondering out loud. I'd rather have less surprises and more physical inputs & outputs. I know I know I know, I'm like a broken record.  |
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Post by Bonzo on Jul 6, 2018 10:43:42 GMT -5
On my comparison spreadsheet I believe I incorrectly showed the Tape outs being repurposed for Atmos/DTS:X (I’ve since fixed it and will repost). I can’t find the post right now, and they’ve taken the “technology enhancement” verbiage off the website, but the last I read they are using the Z1 Mix outputs and Z2 Zone outputs to get the .4 for Atmos/DTS:X. That should leave the Tape outputs available as a fixed level stereo output, this is a unique feature of the upgraded G2 over the other models. I had not heard that. Last I heard, and discussed many times over, was the same as originally told, that they were going to "steal" the Rec Out and the Z1 out. I hope you are correct. I'd rather have them "steal" the Z1 & Z2 plugs. The question remains, will the "steal" be switchable, or permanent? As in, if you get the upgrade to Atmos, then are those 4 plugs Atmos only for forever? Or will there be an option in the set up menu? Bummer they are doing it this "steal" way really. I doubt it's possible, but my proposal would be to "steal" 4 of the extra RCA amp outputs. Take the current Side and Rear surround plugs and permanently switch those over. Then it wouldn't lose any real functionality. But oh well. |
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Post by Bonzo on Jul 6, 2018 10:47:38 GMT -5
Well ; sound quality differences between the gen 2's Burr brown dacs and the "gen3"s AKM'S Personally I'm more inclined to like the Ti Burr Brown DAC's, I've never heard a Burr Brown DAC that I didn't like. What's the title of that Will Rogers book ........... Never Met a Man I Didn't Like .......... that's it. Cheers Gary I can certainly say that my old Denon Universal DVD player with Burr Brown sounds MUCH more natural, smooth, and musical than the Oppo 105 with Sabre. Don't know the exact reasons, but there is definitely a difference. I'm keeping the Oppo for movies, but I'm keeping the Denon for music. The Oppo was supposed to replace the Denon, but no way. |
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Post by foggy1956 on Jul 6, 2018 10:59:39 GMT -5
I don’t think the market for the G3 is G2 users looking to upgrade, I think the market is “big box” AVR buyers looking to go component. If you have a fully upgraded G2 then the differences are going to be mostly cosmetic. But if you are someone like me who has a Marantz AVR I am the perfect customer for the G3. I look at it like upgrading from a G1 XPA to a G2, the differences are small and made just to keep the product line current. Not made to make G1 buyers upgrade. You answer Segways into a different topic that people have only lightly speculated about. Asked directly, will the Gen3 be a flat out replacement, or will it live side by side with the old Gen 2. Personally, I think it's a replacement. But so far the general hints coming from Emotiva have said that as long as the Gen 2 sells they'll keep making it. I'm not so sure. I agree that there is basically zero reason to upgrade from a Gen 2 to a Gen 3. Actually, I think it's less than zero. Unless the Gen 3 does something crazy to improve the sound, I think the Gen 2 is a superior piece to have, at least for me anyway. Yes, both XMC-1's are for people who want to move up the ladder. Exactly. But I'm just asking what does the the Gen 3 have/do that makes it a worthy successor to the Gen 2? From the back panel to what we really know, I'm currently thinking not much. I like the Gen 2 better myself. Hence why I almost think the idea of buying a Gen 2 with the Atmos upgrade for $3000 makes much more sense than buying the Gen 3 for the rumored $3500. $500 more for what? I guess that's what I'm asking. Segue☺ |
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Post by Bonzo on Jul 6, 2018 11:11:14 GMT -5
 Whoops. And are you related to my wife? She loves to correct my grammatical mistakes. Yet when I correct her pronunciation she gets mad. |
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Post by davidl81 on Jul 6, 2018 11:21:06 GMT -5
I don’t think the market for the G3 is G2 users looking to upgrade, I think the market is “big box” AVR buyers looking to go component. If you have a fully upgraded G2 then the differences are going to be mostly cosmetic. But if you are someone like me who has a Marantz AVR I am the perfect customer for the G3. I look at it like upgrading from a G1 XPA to a G2, the differences are small and made just to keep the product line current. Not made to make G1 buyers upgrade. You answer Segways into a different topic that people have only lightly speculated about. Asked directly, will the Gen3 be a flat out replacement, or will it live side by side with the old Gen 2. Personally, I think it's a replacement. But so far the general hints coming from Emotiva have said that as long as the Gen 2 sells they'll keep making it. I'm not so sure. I agree that there is basically zero reason to upgrade from a Gen 2 to a Gen 3. Actually, I think it's less than zero. Unless the Gen 3 does something crazy to improve the sound, I think the Gen 2 is a superior piece to have, at least for me anyway. Yes, both XMC-1's are for people who want to move up the ladder. Exactly. But I'm just asking what does the the Gen 3 have/do that makes it a worthy successor to the Gen 2? From the back panel to what we really know, I'm currently thinking not much. I like the Gen 2 better myself. Hence why I almost think the idea of buying a Gen 2 with the Atmos upgrade for $3000 makes much more sense than buying the Gen 3 for the rumored $3500. $500 more for what? I guess that's what I'm asking. I very much expect the G2 to go away once the G3 comes out. It will be like the XPA-1 G2 when the DR-1 was release. Emo was going to continue to produce the XPA-1 as long as demand was there, but there must not have been enough demand since they ran the last sets at 20% off and stopped producing them. I'm sure you will see both the G2 and G3 XMC on the site for a short time, then the G2 will go away. It would be like Marantz selling both the AV8802A and the 8805 at the sme time, there will be some overlap, but the 8802A will go away soon. I do think we need to hold off on judging the G3 XMC for a bit. Emotiva has not even released the full specs yet so a lot of what we are comparing is based on not fully confirmed specs for the G3. Even the back of the G3 is just a prototype so it may be best to compare the two once full production specs are released. |
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Post by enricoclaudio on Jul 6, 2018 12:19:04 GMT -5
All the bugs and issues with the V3 board are holding the release of the RMC-1 and XMC-1 Gen 3. There is no way that they can release those two without addressing all the issues on the V3 board first because all of them share the same board. To be honest, I won't hold my breath waiting for the XMC-1 Gen 3 at least for the next 6 to 9 months, if not a whole year.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 6, 2018 15:58:38 GMT -5
On my comparison spreadsheet I believe I incorrectly showed the Tape outs being repurposed for Atmos/DTS:X (I’ve since fixed it and will repost). I can’t find the post right now, and they’ve taken the “technology enhancement” verbiage off the website, but the last I read they are using the Z1 Mix outputs and Z2 Zone outputs to get the .4 for Atmos/DTS:X. That should leave the Tape outputs available as a fixed level stereo output, this is a unique feature of the upgraded G2 over the other models. I had not heard that. Last I heard, and discussed many times over, was the same as originally told, that they were going to "steal" the Rec Out and the Z1 out. I hope you are correct. I'd rather have them "steal" the Z1 & Z2 plugs. The question remains, will the "steal" be switchable, or permanent? As in, if you get the upgrade to Atmos, then are those 4 plugs Atmos only for forever? Or will there be an option in the set up menu? Bummer they are doing it this "steal" way really. I doubt it's possible, but my proposal would be to "steal" 4 of the extra RCA amp outputs. Take the current Side and Rear surround plugs and permanently switch those over. Then it wouldn't lose any real functionality. But oh well. The discussion as I remember was that the Z1/Mix output was first proposed to get .2, then the Z2/Zone output was put on the table to get .4. Having then lost the Zone 2 output they proposed to allow you to switch the digital output between Z1 (where it is now) to Z2 (so you could replace the lost Zone 2 functionality). It might be nice if you could just switch Coax to Zone 2, leaving TOSLink for Z1,but I suspect they’re riding the same bus. The problem with your suggestion to use the ‘extra’ amp outputs, is that they’re not ‘stealing’ jacks, they’re repurposing channels. Even if they’re not counted, the Mix & Zone outputs have they’re own signal path and line amps—the RCA amp channels share the signal path with the XLR’s and hence can’t become new channels. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 6, 2018 16:08:08 GMT -5
Hence why I almost think the idea of buying a Gen 2 with the Atmos upgrade for $3000 makes much more sense than buying the Gen 3 for the rumored $3500. ... Yeah ... but what if they called it the XMC-2!!!   |
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I think its likely considering avrs like the NAD T758V3 have 3 of them built in 
