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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 23, 2018 17:16:14 GMT -5
The XSP-1 I've tried and it wasn't transparent enough for me in two channel. Surprisingly I found my DC-1's analog input more transparent. Input or output? I've not tried a DC-1 and I probably never will, they are simply the wrong form factor and they offer nothing that I want or need. But this XSP-1 "transparency" thing has me totally confused. If I plug my headphones into a source and listen, then plug them into the XSP-1 and listen, it sounds the same to me. I've tried the same with speakers, using both an Oppo 103 and 203 plus a Panasonic BD60. With all types of source material I can't find the slightest bit of "transparency" difference, what goes into the XSP-1 comes out sounding exactly the same. That's about as transparent as there is. Since I don't doubt your opinion then something else was going on when you did your comparison, either the power map "liked" the DC-1's output (eg; capacitance, impedance, etc) more and/or the source liked the DC-1's input (eg; capacitance, impedance etc) more. Either (or both) they're not really comparisons of the XSP-1's "transparency" versus the DC-1. It's more a compatibility comparison, which varies between the ins and outs. Ditto, I could never consider a pre amp without HT bypass, it's an essential in my set up. Cheers Gary |
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Post by garbulky on Jan 23, 2018 17:49:34 GMT -5
The XSP-1 I've tried and it wasn't transparent enough for me in two channel. Surprisingly I found my DC-1's analog input more transparent. Input or output? I've not tried a DC-1 and I probably never will, they are simply the wrong form factor and they offer nothing that I want or need. But this XSP-1 "transparency" thing has me totally confused. If I plug my headphones into a source and listen, then plug them into the XSP-1 and listen, it sounds the same to me. I've tried the same with speakers, using both an Oppo 103 and 203 plus a Panasonic BD60. With all types of source material I can't find the slightest bit of "transparency" difference, what goes into the XSP-1 comes out sounding exactly the same. That's about as transparent as there is. Since I don't doubt your opinion then something else was going on when you did your comparison, either the power map "liked" the DC-1's output (eg; capacitance, impedance, etc) more and/or the source liked the DC-1's input (eg; capacitance, impedance etc) more. Either (or both) they're not really comparisons of the XSP-1's "transparency" versus the DC-1. It's more a compatibility comparison, which varies between the ins and outs. Ditto, I could never consider a pre amp without HT bypass, it's an essential in my set up. Cheers Gary I'm not the only one that noticed this. I've seen about three or four others that mentioned it. They preferred the DC-1 direct vs XSP-1. So....the only time I noticed this was with the XPA-1 gen 2. On single ended less powerful amps, I found the XSP-1 a very nice match. I actually preferred the XSP-1 in single ended over DC-1 direct. The XPA-1 surprised me by being very revealing over previous amps I'd heard. Imo that is the likely reason. But I won't rule out things like compatibility as you mentioned. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 23, 2018 18:03:14 GMT -5
Input or output? I've not tried a DC-1 and I probably never will, they are simply the wrong form factor and they offer nothing that I want or need. But this XSP-1 "transparency" thing has me totally confused. If I plug my headphones into a source and listen, then plug them into the XSP-1 and listen, it sounds the same to me. I've tried the same with speakers, using both an Oppo 103 and 203 plus a Panasonic BD60. With all types of source material I can't find the slightest bit of "transparency" difference, what goes into the XSP-1 comes out sounding exactly the same. That's about as transparent as there is. Since I don't doubt your opinion then something else was going on when you did your comparison, either the power map "liked" the DC-1's output (eg; capacitance, impedance, etc) more and/or the source liked the DC-1's input (eg; capacitance, impedance etc) more. Either (or both) they're not really comparisons of the XSP-1's "transparency" versus the DC-1. It's more a compatibility comparison, which varies between the ins and outs. Ditto, I could never consider a pre amp without HT bypass, it's an essential in my set up. I'm not the only one that noticed this. I've seen about three or four others that mentioned it. They preferred the DC-1 direct vs XSP-1. So....the only time I noticed this was with the XPA-1 gen 2. On single ended less powerful amps, I found the XSP-1 a very nice match. I actually preferred the XSP-1 in single ended over DC-1 direct. The XPA-1 surprised me by being very revealing over previous amps I'd heard. Imo that is the likely reason. But I won't rule out things like compatibility as you mentioned. As I said I don't doubt your opinion. On the power amp front, with the XSP-1, I have tried, using short RCA connections (single ended) an XPA-2, XPA-3 and an XPA-5 via long speaker cables. In my system I run the XSP-1 with XPA-1L's with long XLR's (balanced connection) and short speaker cables. It's definitely quieter but I can't say that's it's noticeably more or less transparent, although the amps do sound slightly different within themselves. Cheers Gary |
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Post by pachieh on Jan 24, 2018 21:49:15 GMT -5
So back on topic maybe... Is there an official spec sheet yet w/pricing and/or availability?
Any idea on when that info will officially come out?
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Post by rbk123 on Jan 25, 2018 8:58:08 GMT -5
No price or spec sheets, and no dates other than shortly after the RMC's release.
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 25, 2018 10:06:07 GMT -5
So back a bit more on topic also, I do want to compliment Emotiva on the new "front". I know some people here always think I'm overly critical, so I'd like to point out that, believe it or not, there are things I really like and I can be complimentary about them.   Of all the features on my Denon, one of the most useful things it has is a readout screen that easily tells you "whats coming in" and "what's going out." On the left is a small block diagram showing all the speakers in a typical room layout, and "what's coming in" light up to easily show 2.0, 2.1, 5.1, 7.1 etc. This is very useful while watching TV or movies to see why certain shows sound a certain way. On the right is the same sort of diagram, but it shows what the Denon is doing processing wise and actually sending out to the speakers. I find this quick diagram system very helpful. It also helps decipher what your wife did when she hit that wrong button on the remote fouling things up.  Emotiva is now taking the Denon design one step further. It's the same idea as my Denon, just with more audiophile geek detail.  Not only is it that, but supposedly you can customize what actually shows up where on each left and right screen to customize it for your particular needs.  AND, what shows up on the unit can be set to also show up replicated on the TV screen. I think this is a very cool set up for a processor. NICE! I also love the idea of the single central knob. So far it sounds like it's going to work really cool. I'm looking forward to actually seeing and hearing more details. I'd love it if Emotiva would make some sort of video showing how it works. For example, assuming it's first and foremost a volume knob (which I assume is the default setting), what is the process for changing signal inputs? A video would be very cool. Are you listening Emotiva? EDIT: Hair Nick, is a video like this part of your job responsibility? Or can you at least pass this idea along. A short video of how the central knob actually works and is programed would be very cool. That way people can see it in action prior to purchasing. Thanks.Some have voiced that they think the overall look is a bit generic, but I think this sort of functionality and ergonomics on a processor trumps aesthetics. Even so, I really like the looks of the front. It's clean, easy and balanced looking. If they would just make the "silver" edition I've spoken of before it would be perfect (silver center knob and silver trim, the XMC-1 Gen 3S, or the RMC-1S). Bottom line, nice job guys on the front design. Here's the Denon screen I was talking about. See the "blocks" on the left & right which represent each speaker channel. This picture shows 7.1 in and 7.1 out, but it does vary depending on what's actually being used.Attachments:
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Post by musicfan on Jan 25, 2018 10:12:27 GMT -5
that central knob is exactly like the idrive knob in BMW's its pretty awesome
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richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 890
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Post by richb on Jan 25, 2018 10:27:43 GMT -5
+1 I love the rocker volume kbob. Great idea.
- Rich
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Post by enricoclaudio on Jan 25, 2018 11:54:28 GMT -5
Not a deal breaker but a front HDMI input would be great for those like me that use REW a lot. I have my XMC-1 inside a Salamander Synergy rack and had to plug a HDMI cable on input 8 and leave the cable coiled and hidden under the rack. Like I said, not a big deal but if they can add it that would come very handy |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 25, 2018 12:31:38 GMT -5
that central knob is exactly like the idrive knob in BMW's its pretty awesome As long as the software layout etc works better than the BMW system. For years BMW got slammed by every magazine in the world for how horrible the system was to operate. Some even going so far to say that they would never buy a BMW until they fixed the ergonomics of how it worked. I believe after many years they finally made improvements, but I've not kept track in the last several years either. Here's to hoping the Emotiva system works awesome right from day one. |
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Post by goozoo on Jan 25, 2018 12:44:51 GMT -5
that central knob is exactly like the idrive knob in BMW's its pretty awesome As long as the software layout etc works better than the BMW system. For years BMW got slammed by every magazine in the world for how horrible the system was to operate. Some even going so far to say that they would never buy a BMW until they fixed the ergonomics of how it worked. I believe after many years they finally made improvements, but I've not kept track in the last several years either. Here's to hoping the Emotiva system works awesome right from day one. Well, fortunately Bonzo big Dan described it as being from a Mercedes. So clearly the problem has been solved . |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 25, 2018 12:50:33 GMT -5
Well, fortunately Bonzo big Dan described it as being from a Mercedes. So clearly the problem has been solved .  |
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Post by musicfan on Jan 25, 2018 14:01:51 GMT -5
yes i own a current year bmw...and the system is flawless....but i cant speak of the first versions
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Post by pachieh on Jan 25, 2018 19:55:26 GMT -5
As long as the software layout etc works better than the BMW system. For years BMW got slammed by every magazine in the world for how horrible the system was to operate. Some even going so far to say that they would never buy a BMW until they fixed the ergonomics of how it worked. I believe after many years they finally made improvements, but I've not kept track in the last several years either. Here's to hoping the Emotiva system works awesome right from day one. Well, fortunately Bonzo big Dan described it as being from a Mercedes. So clearly the problem has been solved . I have iDrive 5 on my 2017 X5M, incredibly easy to use and is pretty awesome. So awesome that I don't use CarPlay, I use the BMW Connected App and iDrive for everything. The touchpad on the top is also incredibly accurate for handwriting. Much easier to use than UConnect on my old 2015 RAM and any Mercedes I've driven from the last four years. |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 29, 2018 14:38:57 GMT -5
mgbpuff , I copied your post over to this thread to not take over the other........ Time marches on. There are always hangers on to the old. So having something old is automatically bad? Having something new is automatically better? Is that how you view it, black and white, plain and simple? Hopefully you can understand the arrogance coming from this statement. Of course basically calling me and others who feel the same “idiots” doesn’t help. But in doing so, you are, in a roundabout way, also proclaiming your ultimate superiority over us. I say come down off your high horse. First of all, we are simply talking analog RCA connections here. It’s not all you are making it out to be. They are most certainly still very relevant connections, and they will be for a long time to come. (Unlike HDMI, which has proven to basically be out of date in about 1 year from date of issue). I am starting to find it hilarious that people here are actually fighting against it. People here probably think I’m the one being an a$$ for being so prosistent, but I see it the other way around. I have never fought to have potential flexibility removed from something as you are all doing. Makes zero sense. Because it saves $50 or $100 on a $3000 - $5000 unit? I am fortunate to have a decent middle class American income, and I’m not a tight wad, so I can afford that. Second, while your Edison comment is pure exaggeration, it does prove a good point. Having simple analog RCA ins/outs allows anyone to use just about any home stereo equipment from the 70’s on. That’s a lot of stuff, all useable if someone chooses. In what world is that a bad thing? Having a few more analog inputs and a tape out that a lready exist on the previous unit does nothing towards what you suggest here. And I think you are, by extension, putting Emotiva down by assuming they couldn’t make it work very well and still be cost effective. So you are suggesting I buy an XSP-1 for another $1200? That’s really not a bad suggestion, and something I should put more time into considering. My first inclination is that it’s overkill for my “all in one” room, and might confuse my wife, but I will certainly give it more thought. Thanks for the suggestion. Nope, not if you are using HDMI it won’t. But, so you want it to be future ready, but being backwards analog capable is “idiocy?” Really? Nothing is totally future proof in this world, but analog connections are more future proof than HDMI. They will be around longer than HDMI as we know it today. Well, that’s your life, not mine. I have perfectly good analog equipment I still use, as well as modern digital equipment that I also use analog connections for. You suggest I just throw them away and forget about it all? Being polite, I say F that. You have fun using nothing but HDMI. I’ll use HDMI, digital, and RCA analog thank you.
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richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 890
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Post by richb on Jan 29, 2018 14:43:41 GMT -5
^ Saved for a possible reponse post that to a post may occur in a few miniuts  - Rich |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 29, 2018 16:53:02 GMT -5
So on the XSP-1 thought, does it have to be physically turned on to have the HT bypass work? Or does it do pass through while tuned off (or does it have a standby mode?)? I know there are receivers out there that do the pass through (like HDMI from a cable box) while in standby mode so you needn't turn them on just to watch TV.
Secondarily, does it "remember" that you have the HT bypass turned on each time you crank it up? Or do you have to turn it on, then hit the HT button each time?
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Post by pachieh on Jan 29, 2018 20:36:12 GMT -5
People were up in arms when Apple stopped putting floppy drives on the iMac. After a few years, nobody gave a crap. It was old legacy technology, if you keep it around (like RCAs), you never move forward.
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Post by enricoclaudio on Jan 29, 2018 20:37:02 GMT -5
So on the XSP-1 thought, does it have to be physically turned on to have the HT bypass work? Or does it do pass through while tuned off (or does it have a standby mode?)? I know there are receivers out there that do the pass through (like HDMI from a cable box) while in standby mode so you needn't turn them on just to watch TV. Secondarily, does it "remember" that you have the HT bypass turned on each time you crank it up? Or do you have to turn it on, then hit the HT button each time? Four years ago I did audition the XSP-1 and the Parasound P5 and decided to go with the P5 mostly because it had dual independent subwoofers in/outs so if you have a receiver with Audyssey XT32 + SubEQ HT, which I had by that time, you still get the benefits of SubEQ HT. The XSP-1 has only one subwoofer input on the HT Bypass so it didn't work in my setup. Also, while the XSP-1 has to be ON for the HT Bypass to work, the Parasound P5 HT Bypass works even when the P5 is on Stand By mode. Last year as soon I got the XMC-1 I sold the P5 for good. No needed it anymore. The XMC-1 sounds if not equal, I would say better than the P5. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 29, 2018 21:57:41 GMT -5
So on the XSP-1 thought, does it have to be physically turned on to have the HT bypass work? Or does it do pass through while tuned off (or does it have a standby mode?)? I know there are receivers out there that do the pass through (like HDMI from a cable box) while in standby mode so you needn't turn them on just to watch TV.Secondarily, does it "remember" that you have the HT bypass turned on each time you crank it up? Or do you have to turn it on, then hit the HT button each time? The XSP-1 has to be turned on to HY bypass but that's not a big deal as I have it triggered by the UMC-200 and it's on HT Bypass by default. If I want to listen to stereo music then I turn on the XSP-1 which then triggers the XPA-1L's and the sub woofer amp (ie; all that I need for stereo 2.1 music). Then I select the relevant source, turntable, ERC-3 etc. Before I turn off the XSP-1 I switch it back to my default HT Bypass. Simple. Cheers Gary |
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Not only is it that, but supposedly you can customize what actually shows up where on each left and right screen to customize it for your particular needs. 
AND, what shows up on the unit can be set to also show up replicated on the TV screen. 
