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Post by milsap195 on Apr 3, 2018 12:42:24 GMT -5
The 103 and 105 were great players that they couldn’t top. Now do I sell my 105 or keep it.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Apr 3, 2018 12:51:35 GMT -5
I was surprised to hear this news. That said - I guess it's not a huge loss. I have not liked their sound for 2 channel, so if I think of it as "what can do the video part well" without worrying about 2-channel - there are many cheaper options which also have excellent video sourcing from disks. And, if the future is disk-free in video, well...enough said.
Mark
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Post by millst on Apr 3, 2018 13:11:57 GMT -5
Not too shocking. It's been diminishing returns since Blu-ray came out. Oppo's DVD performance edge was large (probably still is significant), but times have changed and that's a niche. An HD stream is going to look better than the best DVD.
You can easily buy a UHD player for half the price and the quality will be the same for modern discs (unless you're a serious videophile). The cheapo player will also have a bunch of streaming features built-in. Then, anyone with the new XBox already got UHD for free.
-tm
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Post by novisnick on Apr 3, 2018 13:24:30 GMT -5
The 103 and 105 were great players that they couldn’t top. Now do I sell my 105 or keep it. I sold my 103 a couple of weeks ago as it didn’t offer much to me since going 4K, the Tidal app which I did use was easily replaced. My Samsung 4K player renders a wonderful picture on my 4K TV. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 3, 2018 13:26:42 GMT -5
I thought the same thing. Then I went through two Sony bluray players. Both “died” because Sony refused to update the firmware. I had a Sony DVP-1000ES that I bought new from Best Buy when they were being closed out. Had. Five year warranty. One day it would not recognize discs. Sent it in for repair. They told me there was nothing wrong with it. Had to fight them to replace the laser mechanism. Many hours on the phone. Found Oppo and they have been terrific. I spent as much on lousy, cheap bluray players as I did on my Oppo. Also, my blood pressure has been a lot lower with the Oppo. A buddy of mine bought his premium priced Oppo for BR back in the day. He couldn't believe me when I told him I bought a Samsung BR for ~1/8 the price at $70 from Costco. 6 mo's ago, I bought another (for a 2nd room) for $50. Both work fine, no issues and the picture and audio is just as good coming out of my XMC and MC700. I don't need or desire the analog outs and DACs, that's for Bonzo. I would have zero appetite for an Emo player for the same reasons. I guess it all depends on whether you care about the quality of the product and whether you are a videophile or not. Sure the cheap $50 player works and produces an excellent image because it has to to meet specs. If there is a problem, throwing it in the trash is fine. I certainly would not want to spend hours on the phone with tech support. So, yes, it makes sense money wise to buy one of these. However, if you are passionate about audio and video, you always seek out the better built, better quality machines. Something intrinsically nice about an aluminum front panel. High quality binding posts and rca connectors. Well designed circuit boards. A longer warranty. Firmware updates that are routine, documented, and on time. But, I see and understand your point of view. I would have an appetite for an Emotiva player. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Apr 3, 2018 13:41:57 GMT -5
I don't have any inside scoop here.... but I can take a guess. We all know that disc sales are on a decline - with only one final destination is sight. My guess would be that sales on the Oppo players have simply declined more rapidly than they expected. To put it bluntly... as regards 4k and disc players... The early adopters have already bought a disc player. Perhaps there just plain aren't that many late adopters... Or, perhaps, with declining demand, and the rapid price drop in the alternatives, there just aren't that many late adopters who are willing to pay the price of an Oppo... If most people agree that the format itself is dying, and will soon be defunct, a lot more people are going to be willing to spend $200 to enjoy it for the time it has left than $600. (And, since the Oppo players are manufactured at pretty high quality, I'm sure they can't afford to sell them for much less "just to keep moving product".) Note that, as outsiders, we don't know how many Oppo 203 and 205 units are sitting in warehouses... As compared to projections of how many they will ever sell... (Maybe someone did the math and those numbers already match up pretty closely.) I say there's a reason Oppo is exiting the market... It's a dying market. Sure there's a market but it's a declining one. That's why Oppo is getting out now. Well I find the "now" timing a bit odd myself. "Now" is bad timing if you ask me. 4K hasn't even hit its stride yet. The new 203 and 205 players haven't been around very long. Better timing would have been before spending the time and money designing and producing these new players. Better timing would be to just keep making the 203 and 205 until sales drop off to the point past their desired profit margin. Although perhaps that's what they are doing. The release says they won't be making any new products. The 203 and 205 are technically not new. So do they mean "new new" products? Like there won't be a 213 or 215 in the future? Will the 203 and 205 remain in production for years to come? Or are they just stopping manufacturing now? If its the latter, then I say bad timing, that is unless they have already hit that minimal profit margin level, now. Which would be a bad sign for the future of 4K discs if you ask me. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 3, 2018 13:46:47 GMT -5
Not too shocking. It's been diminishing returns since Blu-ray came out. Oppo's DVD performance edge was large (probably still is significant), but times have changed and that's a niche. An HD stream is going to look better than the best DVD. You can easily buy a UHD player for half the price and the quality will be the same for modern discs (unless you're a serious videophile). The cheapo player will also have a bunch of streaming features built-in. Then, anyone with the new XBox already got UHD for free. -tm I think you have mentioned something important. Not only price, butp people want apps built in. I think there was disappointment due to that. Even though you can use your smart tv or buy a Roku or Apple TV, that was not something a buyer wanted. But that’s not all. My thought, right or wrong is that sales are down at Oppo due to: Price Streaming No on board streaming apps Just my .02 |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 3, 2018 13:59:48 GMT -5
So, with disc players and physical media on the decline, with the end being that streaming or cloud based sources the final option, when can we expect the quality to be as good or better video and audio wise?
I think those of us who consider this a hobby or passion want the best PQ and audio quality we can get.
That would mean with the death of physical media, are we screwed or will the engineers out there meet the challenge?
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Post by Loop 7 on Apr 3, 2018 14:06:33 GMT -5
Either prices will soar or crater as a result of this announcement... Wonder if some are buying multiple players, keeping them sealed, and anticipating high resale. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 3, 2018 14:16:59 GMT -5
Either prices will soar or crater as a result of this announcement... Wonder if some are buying multiple players, keeping them sealed, and anticipating high resale. I think that is a big risk because these players require future firmware updates to stay relevant in the future and we don’t know how long they will do this. |
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Post by Loop 7 on Apr 3, 2018 14:41:07 GMT -5
It looks like Cambridge Audio will need to find another company to make their next generation media player since it seemed apparent that Oppo was making the CXUHD 4K UHD universal blu-ry player. Are there others? if so they'll be finding other manufacturers to build their future media players as well. Yes others. PS Audio's DirectStream Memory Player uses an Oppo transport. They disclosed which transport they were using before the product even launched. A neat player that, when used with a PSA DAC, actually sends uncompressed SACD layer to the DAC for encoding. I don't think the product has been out for more than a year so I imagine they have purchased a substantial inventory for manufacturing and repair. DirectStream Memory Player CD and SACD memory player |
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Apr 3, 2018 15:20:33 GMT -5
Oppo makes smartphones and they are very popular in Asia.
I always liked the quality of their products although I'm not a fan of the Sabre DAC.
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Post by jdmusante on Apr 3, 2018 15:25:24 GMT -5
The 103 and 105 were great players that they couldn’t top. Now do I sell my 105 or keep it. Wondering the same thing. Do I sell my 105D, which I love, and buy a 203 (I don't need the DAC anymore)? I don't have a 4k TV but have started buying the 4k discs when I want to buy movies as they have the Blu-Ray discs too. My Plasma won't last forever. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 3, 2018 15:36:33 GMT -5
The 103 and 105 were great players that they couldn’t top. Now do I sell my 105 or keep it. Wondering the same thing. Do I sell my 105D, which I love, and buy a 203 (I don't need the DAC anymore)? I don't have a 4k TV but have started buying the 4k discs when I want to buy movies as they have the Blu-Ray discs too. My Plasma won't last forever. As long as they continue to pay attention to firmware updates for a few years, you should be fine. Another option is to go with a Sony or Samsung 4k player. Less money, so less risk. |
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Post by enricoclaudio on Apr 3, 2018 15:40:24 GMT -5
Oppo will be missed. I got my first Oppo (DV980H) after my V Bravo D2 DVD player died. Then got the 983H, 93, 105D and 1 month ago a 203. I hope the new Panasonic UHD players made to the USA, though.
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Post by 1960broookwood on Apr 3, 2018 15:41:00 GMT -5
Not too shocking. It's been diminishing returns since Blu-ray came out. Oppo's DVD performance edge was large (probably still is significant), but times have changed and that's a niche. An HD stream is going to look better than the best DVD. You can easily buy a UHD player for half the price and the quality will be the same for modern discs (unless you're a serious videophile). The cheapo player will also have a bunch of streaming features built-in. Then, anyone with the new XBox already got UHD for free. -tm I think you have mentioned something important. Not only price, butp people want apps built in. I think there was disappointment due to that. Even though you can use your smart tv or buy a Roku or Apple TV, that was not something a buyer wanted. But that’s not all. My thought, right or wrong is that sales are down at Oppo due to: Price Streaming No on board streaming apps Just my .02 That is exactly why I didn't buy one. My current players gets used more for streaming music than video. |
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Post by goozoo on Apr 3, 2018 15:53:51 GMT -5
Shocking indeed! With all this talk about how physical media is headed to the trash heap, how come the data does not support this. As it stands currently, UHD sales are surpassing BD sales globally simply because people want higher quality content and streaming services cannot provide it. With the next big push for SUHD (8K) happening now, how in the world are they expecting to push all that data through to your house?!! Comcast wants data caps, your connection is shared by everyone down the street, and there's no end in sight to price hikes with net neutrality gone! Yes....a glorious future for all.
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Post by Gary Cook on Apr 3, 2018 16:16:47 GMT -5
To me video players are like processors, they don't have a very long life in comparison to say amplifiers or speakers. They are stuck in the never ending, never stoping always onwards and upwards elevator that is HDMI, HDCP, 2K,4K,8K etc. Here a 203 is 4 times the cost of a Sony X800 and it won't last 4 times as long and it certainly doesn't give 4 times the audio and/or video quality. I looked at a 93 at the time and bought a Panasonic BD player instead, which is still going strong in the family room. More recently, having upgraded the panel to 4K, I did the same with a 203, bought a Sony instead.
To me streaming has a long way to go before it will replace discs for me. The speed and data volume are killers for 4K and Atmos/DTSX, we get Netflix and Stan in 4K but it doesn't look anywhere near as good as a 4K disc. The audio, well DD5.1 is so last century, we don't even get HD lossless sound let alone Atmos. I don't see that changing for some time, years, decades more likely, it's just not a priority.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by rbk123 on Apr 3, 2018 16:27:20 GMT -5
I guess it all depends on whether you care about the quality of the product and whether you are a videophile or not. Sure the cheap $50 player works and produces an excellent image because it has to to meet specs. If there is a problem, throwing it in the trash is fine. I certainly would not want to spend hours on the phone with tech support. So, yes, it makes sense money wise to buy one of these. However, if you are passionate about audio and video, you always seek out the better built, better quality machines. Something intrinsically nice about an aluminum front panel. High quality binding posts and rca connectors. Well designed circuit boards. A longer warranty. Firmware updates that are routine, documented, and on time. But, I see and understand your point of view. I would have an appetite for an Emotiva player. I care about quality when it adds value, but not so much when it's for aesthetics. For me, the BR player is simply a transport - my Samsungs pass the same digital video and audio bits as the Oppo, so getting an Oppo will not improve either the picture or the audio. My inexpensive Samsung players have not failed in any way or had any problems, they've been completely reliable, and I have spent 0 hours on the phone with tech support. Now for those that need the built in clients or the analog outputs, then we are talking apples/oranges and the Oppo will outperform the Samsungs. There would be value in the improved binding posts and RCA connectors, as those could potentially impact the audio. However my use case is just one HDMI connector to my XMC/MC processor to pass the BR video and HD audio formats. Since getting an Oppo won't improve that, I have no desire to get one. Also if one prefers the Oppo's HD processing and DACs over their XMC's processing/DACs, that's fine and would warrant the purchase. I am in the opposite camp however. One thing we are in agreement on - physical media currently provides the highest audio and video quality and because of that, I also choose it over streaming formats. Until that changes, I don't want disc or disc players to vanish. |
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