cawgijoe
Emo VIPs 
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,032
|
Post by cawgijoe on Apr 3, 2018 16:51:04 GMT -5
I guess it all depends on whether you care about the quality of the product and whether you are a videophile or not. Sure the cheap $50 player works and produces an excellent image because it has to to meet specs. If there is a problem, throwing it in the trash is fine. I certainly would not want to spend hours on the phone with tech support. So, yes, it makes sense money wise to buy one of these. However, if you are passionate about audio and video, you always seek out the better built, better quality machines. Something intrinsically nice about an aluminum front panel. High quality binding posts and rca connectors. Well designed circuit boards. A longer warranty. Firmware updates that are routine, documented, and on time. But, I see and understand your point of view. I would have an appetite for an Emotiva player. I care about quality when it adds value, but not so much when it's for aesthetics. For me, the BR player is simply a transport - my Samsungs pass the same digital video and audio bits as the Oppo, so getting an Oppo will not improve either the picture or the audio. My inexpensive Samsung players have not failed in any way or had any problems, they've been completely reliable, and I have spent 0 hours on the phone with tech support. Now for those that need the built in clients or the analog outputs, then we are talking apples/oranges and the Oppo will outperform the Samsungs. There would be value in the improved binding posts and RCA connectors, as those could potentially impact the audio. However my use case is just one HDMI connector to my XMC/MC processor to pass the BR video and HD audio formats. Since getting an Oppo won't improve that, I have no desire to get one. Also if one prefers the Oppo's HD processing and DACs over their XMC's processing/DACs, that's fine and would warrant the purchase. I am in the opposite camp however. One thing we are in agreement on - physical media currently provides the highest audio and video quality and because of that, I also choose it over streaming formats. Until that changes, I don't want disc or disc players to vanish. I understand what you are saying and I’m happy you have had no issues. My experience has been different. Quality build and parts are important to me and I suspect to many others. It’s not simply esthetics or jewelry. We have different priorities. Nothing wrong with that. I agree that as long as the physical media is better than streaming, I would want that. |
|
|
|
Post by millst on Apr 3, 2018 17:02:54 GMT -5
Shocking indeed! With all this talk about how physical media is headed to the trash heap, how come the data does not support this. As it stands currently, UHD sales are surpassing BD sales globally simply because people want higher quality content and streaming services cannot provide it. With the next big push for SUHD (8K) happening now, how in the world are they expecting to push all that data through to your house?!! Comcast wants data caps, your connection is shared by everyone down the street, and there's no end in sight to price hikes with net neutrality gone! Yes....a glorious future for all. That doesn't help Oppo, though. As the source quality has gone up, their performance advantage has gone down. The UDP-203 UHD output pretty much looks the same as any other player and the load times aren't always the fastest either. -tm |
|
cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,032
|
Post by cawgijoe on Apr 3, 2018 17:07:41 GMT -5
Shocking indeed! With all this talk about how physical media is headed to the trash heap, how come the data does not support this. As it stands currently, UHD sales are surpassing BD sales globally simply because people want higher quality content and streaming services cannot provide it. With the next big push for SUHD (8K) happening now, how in the world are they expecting to push all that data through to your house?!! Comcast wants data caps, your connection is shared by everyone down the street, and there's no end in sight to price hikes with net neutrality gone! Yes....a glorious future for all. That doesn't help Oppo, though. As the source quality has gone up, their performance advantage has gone down. The UDP-203 UHD output pretty much looks the same as any other player and the load times aren't always the fastest either. -tm No news here. Consumer Reports has always said that all Blu-ray players produce essentially the same picture. So, pick your brand, options, price. |
|
|
|
Post by millst on Apr 3, 2018 17:13:39 GMT -5
True, but the situation was different when Blu-ray players came out. Many people had large DVD collections that they weren't just going to throw away. It took time for the content to become available on Blu-ray. Plus, the Oppo had industry leading performance in load times.
-tm
|
|
cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,032
|
Post by cawgijoe on Apr 3, 2018 17:23:38 GMT -5
True, but the situation was different when Blu-ray players came out. Many people had large DVD collections that they weren't just going to throw away. It took time for the content to become available on Blu-ray. Plus, the Oppo had industry leading performance in load times. -tm Load times were really slow. I remember my Sony BDP-S560 took about two minutes to load a disc. One last thing I want to mention is this. Regardless of specs, speed, build, performance, etc., if you have owned an Oppo player, you understand the pleasure of using one. I’ve owned several Blu-ray players and after I reluctantly bought my 103, thinking I was spending too much, I realized what a fantastic package it was and never looked back. |
|
|
|
Post by millst on Apr 3, 2018 17:27:04 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd still be using mine if I hadn't gone to a HTPC for madVR.
-tm
|
|
KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,256
|
Post by KeithL on Apr 3, 2018 17:40:43 GMT -5
I've got to sort of straddle the wall on this one. I absolutely agree that physical discs have MUCH better video quality than any current streaming option; it isn't even close. That said, however, I've also got to admit that it doesn't matter all that much for the majority of my viewing. I don't bother to buy discs for most movies any more... I already have far too many DVDs I'm never going to watch again, and even a few too many Blu-Ray discs. I buy 4k discs for movies that I really care about, and for which I think the extra quality will matter. I plan to buy Valerian in 4k, but I'm not so sure Atomic Blonde would be much more enjoyable in 4k than in HD. Therefore, even though I think that the Oppo players have always been the best option available, the last player I bought was a Samsung. It was less than half the price; gets a picture that's about the same; and works very well with my Samsung TV. It's also a cheesy little piece of plastic... and I wouldn't bet on its lasting through a thousand discs. However, since, in the last year, I've only played about fifty or sixty discs on it, I figure it will be obsolete long before it wears out. (And, if it does wear out, I'll just replace it......) And I'm afraid that, unlike audio equipment, I just can't get sentimental about a video player..... And, yes, I had Oppos for years... and never had a problem with them.... But I haven't had a problem with my cheap plastic Samsung either.... I care about quality when it adds value, but not so much when it's for aesthetics. For me, the BR player is simply a transport - my Samsungs pass the same digital video and audio bits as the Oppo, so getting an Oppo will not improve either the picture or the audio. My inexpensive Samsung players have not failed in any way or had any problems, they've been completely reliable, and I have spent 0 hours on the phone with tech support. Now for those that need the built in clients or the analog outputs, then we are talking apples/oranges and the Oppo will outperform the Samsungs. There would be value in the improved binding posts and RCA connectors, as those could potentially impact the audio. However my use case is just one HDMI connector to my XMC/MC processor to pass the BR video and HD audio formats. Since getting an Oppo won't improve that, I have no desire to get one. Also if one prefers the Oppo's HD processing and DACs over their XMC's processing/DACs, that's fine and would warrant the purchase. I am in the opposite camp however. One thing we are in agreement on - physical media currently provides the highest audio and video quality and because of that, I also choose it over streaming formats. Until that changes, I don't want disc or disc players to vanish. I understand what you are saying and I’m happy you have had no issues. My experience has been different. Quality build and parts are important to me and I suspect to many others. It’s not simply esthetics or jewelry. We have different priorities. Nothing wrong with that. I agree that as long as the physical media is better than streaming, I would want that. |
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,256
|
Post by KeithL on Apr 3, 2018 17:44:49 GMT -5
OK...... here's the thing....... The limitation on the quality of streaming content is THE BANDWIDTH. You absolutely CAN stream at the same quality as a Blu-Ray disc... or even better. But you need a really fast Internet connection. Clearly the companies who are currently doing it don't think enough people would be willing to pay for the better service quality... and for the faster Internet connection they would need to use it. It's not the engineers who are the problem.... So, with disc players and physical media on the decline, with the end being that streaming or cloud based sources the final option, when can we expect the quality to be as good or better video and audio wise? I think those of us who consider this a hobby or passion want the best PQ and audio quality we can get. That would mean with the death of physical media, are we screwed or will the engineers out there meet the challenge? |
|
|
|
Post by garbulky on Apr 3, 2018 17:47:49 GMT -5
I've got to sort of straddle the wall on this one. I absolutely agree that physical discs have MUCH better video quality than any current streaming option; it isn't even close. That said, however, I've also got to admit that it doesn't matter all that much for the majority of my viewing. I don't bother to buy discs for most movies any more... I already have far too many DVDs I'm never going to watch again, and even a few too many Blu-Ray discs. I buy 4k discs for movies that I really care about, and for which I think the extra quality will matter. I plan to buy Valerian in 4k, but I'm not so sure Atomic Blonde would be much more enjoyable in 4k than in HD. Therefore, even though I think that the Oppo players have always been the best option available, the last player I bought was a Samsung. It was less than half the price; gets a picture that's about the same; and works very well with my Samsung TV. It's also a cheesy little piece of plastic... and I wouldn't bet on its lasting through a thousand discs. However, since, in the last year, I've only played about fifty or sixty discs on it, I figure it will be obsolete long before it wears out. (And, if it does wear out, I'll just replace it......) And I'm afraid that, unlike audio equipment, I just can't get sentimental about a video player..... And, yes, I had Oppos for years... and never had a problem with them.... But I haven't had a problem with my cheap plastic Samsung either.... I understand what you are saying and I’m happy you have had no issues. My experience has been different. Quality build and parts are important to me and I suspect to many others. It’s not simply esthetics or jewelry. We have different priorities. Nothing wrong with that. I agree that as long as the physical media is better than streaming, I would want that. I think the advent of streaming boxes have also made Oppo's less appealing. Especially considering the 205 has no real video apps. I remember my Blu ray player got a whole lot of use with netflix and other video services. But since my Amazon TV, it rarely gets used - mainly to play only Blu Rays. And that only rarely. The streaming boxes are also way faster than the Blu ray players they replace. |
|
|
|
Post by oddeofile on Apr 3, 2018 17:47:57 GMT -5
Sad really, the less than stellar dac in the UDP. I got lucky, in my opinion and found a new in box 103D back in January. Hope it performs well for many years to come, it's by far the best player I have had the pleasure of owning...
|
|
|
|
Post by Gary Cook on Apr 3, 2018 18:30:25 GMT -5
OK...... here's the thing....... The limitation on the quality of streaming content is THE BANDWIDTH. You absolutely CAN stream at the same quality as a Blu-Ray disc... or even better. But you need a really fast Internet connection. Clearly the companies who are currently doing it don't think enough people would be willing to pay for the better service quality... and for the faster Internet connection they would need to use it. It's not the engineers who are the problem.... What I have noticed with 4K is that even Apple moved fast (for Apple) and upgraded the ATV to 4K. Same with Netflix, who had 4K content fairly quickly and then moved to have all of their own content mandatory shot in 4K. They even have a list of the cameras they approve for their content. Stan (another local Australian equivalent streaming service) had 4K very shortly after Netflix. Around the same time I checked the cost of 4K players and they had dropped something like 50% in a few months. From all of that I drew the conclusion that 4K was what everyone in the various industries saw looking forward and that the majority of their customers would eventually head the same way fairly quickly. I have what I believe is a "really fast internet connection" at ~130 mps (for $10 a month more), but it's not of much help if the providers are catering to the lowest common denominator, which seems to be around 25 mps. That means, as well as compressed video, only DD5.1 sound it is. So from an audio sense they are 2 generations behind, which kinda tells its own story, where 4K is viewed (sic) as something that their customers want, but lossless audio is low on the priority list. Much like Keith, for the superior video and mostly audio, I buy only a few select 4KBD's, ones that I am likely to watch more than once. At that usage pattern the plastic Sony 4K player will last long enough. Cheers Gary |
|
cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,032
|
Post by cawgijoe on Apr 3, 2018 19:07:53 GMT -5
Tough crowd!
Keith - what I meant about the engineers being able to provide is the ability to come up with the tech to be able to provide video quality that is comparable to 4k bluray with our current internet. Not sure if that is possible, but I never thought they would get to where they are now!
I only purchase 4k movies that I believe are classic and I will watch again.
It appears the consensus is to buy cheap, plastic disc players and dump them when they die.
I’ve never been able to do that with any equipment.
Oh well.
|
|
cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,032
|
Post by cawgijoe on Apr 3, 2018 19:13:41 GMT -5
Take of two people:
My wife prefers streaming. Not for quality. She likes the ease of use. Selection. Instant satisfaction. Sound is not a priority.
I like streaming also. But I want the best picture and sound possible.
For me that is 4k bluray.
I see some of that in the replies on this thread.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gary Cook on Apr 3, 2018 19:55:03 GMT -5
It appears the consensus is to buy cheap, plastic disc players and dump them when they die. I’ve never been able to do that with any equipment. The fact is some equipment is disposable, they go out of date technically well before they physically wear out. It makes no sense for me to spend $900 on a 203 that will last 10 years if if it's technically out of date in 3 to 4 years. Whereas I can buy an X800 for $250 with video and audio that looks and sounds the same. If it only lasts 3 years I'm in front. There is also the issue of hanging onto equipment too long because it cost so much that we just can't bear to replace it. As a result we suffer on with outdated video and/or audio. I have no attachment to the X800, it's an appliance, when it's past its use by date I'll go out and buy the latest and greatest. This is not the same for equipment that hasn't got that short a technical life span. Then it's all about the quality, of its construction, engineering and sound. Amplifiers, speakers, stereo pre amplifiers, CD players etc fall into my category of quality for decades. TV's, disc players and processors not so much. Cheers Gary |
|
butchgo
Emo VIPs
The Dark Side rules
Posts: 570
|
Post by butchgo on Apr 3, 2018 20:17:43 GMT -5
The 103 and 105 were great players that they couldn’t top. Now do I sell my 105 or keep it. I am definitely keeping mine until it dies. The best disc player I have ever owned. |
|
|
|
Post by broncsrule21 on Apr 3, 2018 20:20:16 GMT -5
I got you all beat - I'm still using the BDP-83 that I purchased in early 2009. It has been repaired once, and I've received nothing but excellent support from Oppo. It still runs fine after all these years and I have certainly got my money's worth. Before that, I had a Sony that was a piece of junk in comparison. Some are suggesting Emo now step in and fill the niche that is being vacated, or that some other manufacturer do so. I say there's a reason Oppo is exiting the market and while it would be nice for Emo to fill those shoes, they'd be crazy to do so. It's a dying market. If Emo didn't go through with making turntables and didn't go through with tube amps, why should they make expensive BD players? Sure there's a market but it's a declining one. That's why Oppo is getting out now. I still use my BDP-83 also. Haha. I do use a Xbox one s for UHD though. |
|
Lsc
Emo VIPs
Posts: 3,434
|
Post by Lsc on Apr 3, 2018 21:07:20 GMT -5
Agreed regarding the X800. I already hate it bc Sony decided not to upgrade the firmware to Dolby Vision. So my only experience with Dolby Vison is by streaming.
So in retrospect, I should have bought the Oppo - but what I really should have done was wait a few more months.
Instead of buying 4K Blu-ray now, if they do Dolby Vision, I’m forced to buy the digital copy - and the video is outstanding.
|
|
|
|
Post by gus4emo on Apr 3, 2018 21:27:55 GMT -5
Was it all because poor management? I remember Epik Subwoofers, they blamed the suppliers....
|
|
|
|
Post by vcautokid on Apr 4, 2018 1:35:30 GMT -5
Oppo so far is not saying. The climate has changed and Oppo is looking most likely at declining market share and margins. Though Headphones and DACs and Headphone Amps it is kind of too bad. They had some very good options there. It is about sustainability and Oppo may have felt it time to go. I think it is smart they go out on their terms, not the market. But officially Oppo is not saying either way.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gary Cook on Apr 4, 2018 2:19:06 GMT -5
Agreed regarding the X800. I already hate it bc Sony decided not to upgrade the firmware to Dolby Vision. So my only experience with Dolby Vison is by streaming. So in retrospect, I should have bought the Oppo - but what I really should have done was wait a few more months. Instead of buying 4K Blu-ray now, if they do Dolby Vision, I’m forced to buy the digital copy - and the video is outstanding. Before I bought my 4K panel last year I back to back tried a couple of movies in HDR10 and Dolby Vision on an LG OLED panel using my cousin's 203. It was part of the decision making process on which player and which panel to buy, so I spent some time making the call. Quite frankly it was hard to pick the difference and some scenes in some movies looked better in Dolby Vision and then some other scenes in some other movies looked better in HDR10. It was far more down to the cinematographer than the format I watched it in. As a result I didn't bother with any lack of Dolby Vision in either the panel choice (a Samsung) or the player choice (a Sony X800). BTW HDR10+ is on its way which supposedly blows Dolby Vision out of the water, so waiting for the latest is a never ending quest  Cheers Gary |
|
