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Post by doc1963 on Feb 28, 2019 14:34:47 GMT -5
The post by Keith was before the v3 board was released, maybe the new board isn't compatible with the test? The CEC controller resides on the FP (Front Panel) circuit board which is what this test "tests". While the controller does receive and process the CEC commands from the HDMI board, it would have been a bit short-sighted of them to have designed an HDMI board that wasn't compatible with the controller IC or the tests that are loaded from their own software. To me, either sgracing is indeed correct in that they did ship early release V3 boards with CEC disabled (which I was told wasn't the case), or, my main CEC controller on the FP board has failed. Still waiting patiently for a response from support to see which it's going to be...  |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 28, 2019 14:39:13 GMT -5
The CEC chip - which is tested by the test - is actually on the Front Panel board.
There were also a few minor production changes early in the v3 board run which can affect CEC performance - but ONLY relating to source devices. However, CEC itself is problematic, and may or may not work between different brands. (The HDMI v3 board uses different HDMI switches, and has different firmware to go with it, so, as far as CEC is concerned, an XMC-1 with the new board is sort of a different product than one with the old board.)
Keith - is the CEC chip on the V3 board? Mine had been working until I did the swap. |
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Post by multicore on Feb 28, 2019 17:39:12 GMT -5
Seems so... I was also informed that you should wait two minutes after entering the test screen before you perform any of the tests. Doing this allows enough time for the system to fully bootup. KeithL doesn't mention that. If your results mirror mine, your ECC-1 loopback will pass, but the other two will still fail. I assume the failure of the CEC loopback is the root cause of our problems. I have emailed support and included the photo of my test results. I'm still waiting for a response. e Yup, you are correct! Reran the test with the delay and the EEC-1 pass but the others still fail. I still have not heard from Emotiva yet via the V3 support email but I am sure they will ask to check it. Phil I also have been having problems with ARC, so I tried the loop back test. On my XMC-1, all 3 tests pass. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Feb 28, 2019 18:21:59 GMT -5
How do you run the test?
Never mind.
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Feb 28, 2019 21:53:27 GMT -5
I ran the test with the same results as Doc. CEC Failed.
I don't use CEC, but provide this as information.
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Post by sgracing on Mar 1, 2019 8:52:11 GMT -5
The CEC chip - which is tested by the test - is actually on the Front Panel board.
There were also a few minor production changes early in the v3 board run which can affect CEC performance - but ONLY relating to source devices. However, CEC itself is problematic, and may or may not work between different brands. (The HDMI v3 board uses different HDMI switches, and has different firmware to go with it, so, as far as CEC is concerned, an XMC-1 with the new board is sort of a different product than one with the old board.)
Keith - is the CEC chip on the V3 board? Mine had been working until I did the swap. So you and your team seem to be avoiding the subject line and the use of CEC and ARC . Mine didn't work at all ! So you sent me a new v3 board . Everything now works once audio locks on! The only issue is locking on at start up ! It appears that your not going to support CEC. I wish you folks could at least be honest and transparent with this issue. It's not a deal breaker but it makes me a little leary about upgrading to any of your products. Your always nice when I call and you tell me your going to fix the issue but its been 8 months. The purpose of my 15 k investment was to use the FUNCTIONS ... CEC... The 1.4 HDMI board was very good at CEC . And for the first year your unit worked as advertised. Please Emotiva ! |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 1, 2019 10:48:23 GMT -5
I hate to be argumentative - but there is a point here that you are missing. CEC is NOT a standard that is reliably enforced or fully complied with.
While it's part of the HDMI standard, it is not as fully specified, and, in fact, each manufacturer is allowed to add "custom extension" which only work on their product. (And all of our products which sport the HDMI logo have been tested to comply with the HDMI certification requirements.)
Therefore, in actual fact, CEC is more of an informal agreement between manufacturers than a standard.... and it is simply not a very "solid" standard. As a result, CEC often fails to work as expected between different brands, or even between different models of the same brand. If you read the online forums for any product with CEC you will find pages and pages of instances where it fails to work properly or consistently with the CEC on other products.
We agree with you; it sucks; and we do our best to make our products work as expected with everyone else's.
However, as another result, getting CEC to work is often a matter of creating workarounds to get it to work in specific instances, and we may not always be successful.
Our new 4k HDMI card uses entirely different video switching hardware than the original non-4k board and requires different firmware tom operate it.
Obviously, in your case, the CEC support provided by your original (non-4k) HDMI card worked well with your other gear. And, equally obviously, the CEC support provided by our new 4k HDMI card, and its new firmware, did NOT work entirely as well with that same equipment. As it turns out, there was a later production change to the new 4k HDMI board that improved CEC functionality in certain situations and with certain other equipment. (As most other manufacturers do - "we reserve the right to make changes to improve our products".)
And, once we determined that you had the older version of the card, and that you were one of the few customers in a situation where it made a difference, we upgraded you to the newer card.
The CEC chip - which is tested by the test - is actually on the Front Panel board. There were also a few minor production changes early in the v3 board run which can affect CEC performance - but ONLY relating to source devices. However, CEC itself is problematic, and may or may not work between different brands. (The HDMI v3 board uses different HDMI switches, and has different firmware to go with it, so, as far as CEC is concerned, an XMC-1 with the new board is sort of a different product than one with the old board.)
So you and your team seem to be avoiding the subject line and the use of CEC and ARC . Mine didn't work at all ! So you sent me a new v3 board . Everything now works once audio locks on! The only issue is locking on at start up ! It appears that your not going to support CEC. I wish you folks could at least be honest and transparent with this issue. It's not a deal breaker but it makes me a little leary about upgrading to any of your products. Your always nice when I call and you tell me your going to fix the issue but its been 8 months. The purpose of my 15 k investment was to use the FUNCTIONS ... CEC... The 1.4 HDMI board was very good at CEC . And for the first year your unit worked as advertised. Please Emotiva ! |
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Post by enricoclaudio on Mar 1, 2019 12:34:48 GMT -5
My XMC-1 passed the CEC test but ironically I don't use CEC/ARC as it's the first thing I disable as soon I get a new display, source or processor/receiver.  |
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Post by wilburthegoose on Mar 1, 2019 16:12:43 GMT -5
But CEC worked before the new board was installed. Same TV, same remote, same XMC-1.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 1, 2019 16:17:03 GMT -5
If you ran the CEC test - after allowing about two minutes for the XMC-1 to settle down after waking up.... And the "CEC loopback test" failed... Then you have a bad CEC chip on the front panel... And CEC will not work... (You need a repair.) I ran the test with the same results as Doc. CEC Failed. I don't use CEC, but provide this as information. |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Mar 1, 2019 16:50:30 GMT -5
If you ran the CEC test - after allowing about two minutes for the XMC-1 to settle down after waking up.... And the "CEC loopback test" failed... Then you have a bad CEC chip on the front panel... And CEC will not work... (You need a repair.) I ran the test with the same results as Doc. CEC Failed. I don't use CEC, but provide this as information. Interesting. I timed the 2 minute warning to be sure, and I'll probably do it again just for kicks, but . . . if I don't care about CEC and don't want to repair it, will this affect anything else? cause gremlins of any kind? One interesting side affect which occurred after doing the test: Once the test ended I hit the front power button to enter Standby, then powered on, strange things happened with the remote control signals - they were repeating very rapidly causing Mute to quickly mute then unmute. Using the On switch on the remote control would not function either, same with the Standby button on the remote, including hitting the Standby button for 4 seconds. I then used the rear power switch to switch off, wait, the power up again and everything was normal. No biggie, just interesting. Computers are fun. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 1, 2019 17:02:36 GMT -5
Yes... but...
Same TV... Same remote... Same XMC-1... Different HDMI switching hardware... Different firmware...
And, unfortunately, this does open the door to the possibility of different compatibility issues. And, even more unfortunately, since CEC is problematic and subject to compatibility issues, that's just a little bit like rolling the dice over again. I do apologize to those who find this important for being flip... but CEC is very prone to compatibility issues between different products... and the updates are significant enough that they do make the XMC-1 a slightly different device. (Think of it like upgrading your car to a new model year.)
But CEC worked before the new board was installed. Same TV, same remote, same XMC-1. |
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Post by mick on Mar 1, 2019 17:04:44 GMT -5
If i wanted to sell my XMC-1 am i obliged to tell the purchaser that the CEC doesn't work? and if there are any other problems please ring Emotiva.
cheers
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Mar 1, 2019 20:36:46 GMT -5
If i wanted to sell my XMC-1 am i obliged to tell the purchaser that the CEC doesn't work? and if there are any other problems please ring Emotiva. cheers How would they know if it works or not until they try it. I’m a regular in the LG OLEDC8/E8 thread on AVS Forum, and series 8 models seem to have compatibility issues with Denon receivers according to their owners, should LG have warned me ahead of time about this? If there were a universal industry protocol for CEC then we wouldn’t be having this discussion as it would just work, but as it is, this is just another HDMI feature that isn’t reliable, just as I think eARC will be as unreliable as ARC. In theory HDMI CEC/ARC are useful features, but in reality out in the wild has proven them to be spotty at best. |
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Post by jra on Mar 1, 2019 20:40:29 GMT -5
Yes... but...
Same TV... Same remote... Same XMC-1... Different HDMI switching hardware... Different firmware...
And, unfortunately, this does open the door to the possibility of different compatibility issues. And, even more unfortunately, since CEC is problematic and subject to compatibility issues, that's just a little bit like rolling the dice over again. I do apologize to those who find this important for being flip... but CEC is very prone to compatibility issues between different products... and the updates are significant enough that they do make the XMC-1 a slightly different device. (Think of it like upgrading your car to a new model year.)
But CEC worked before the new board was installed. Same TV, same remote, same XMC-1. I have to agree with Keith. CEC is a complete crapshoot between different manufacturers and devices. I have 3 XMC-1's, two of which I use with CEC (so the family can control the volume with the TV remote control). With a Samsung TV, CEC would turn devices off but not turn them on. Tried an old Pioneer receiver - same problem (so not the XMC-1). Did some digging, it's a wellknown issue with Samsung and CEC. Replaced with a Sharp TV. That just works with CEC, always has - completely reliable. Second attempt was with a Visio smart TV. Worked well initially, but I made the mistake of leaving it Internet connected, and an update I DIDN'T ASK FOR OR AUTHORIZE broke the audio return channel to the XMC-1. Called Visio, no way to downgrade or revert to earlier TV firmware. Just sighed and connected the optical out to the XMC-1. 3 months later, another Visio update, ARC starts working again. Go figure. Be thankful Emotiva doesn't pull this kind of stunt. I only have no working CEC on one of my XMC's, turns out that is the one I bought second hand from Audiogon. No matter what TV I connect to it never worked. Didn't need it so left it alone. After reading this thread I got curious enough to do the selftest last night and lo and behold, fails the CEC selftest. Both the others pass. Seller never told me (so I guess that answers the question below :-). I'm going to send it in and get the chip replaced so I can easily swap between units in case I need to without disturbing the family using he TV remote. All three XMC's have the new HDMI boards (two self installed). Never had a problem with it. But CEC ? CEC *sucks* :-). |
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richb
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Post by richb on Mar 1, 2019 20:56:43 GMT -5
If i wanted to sell my XMC-1 am i obliged to tell the purchaser that the CEC doesn't work? and if there are any other problems please ring Emotiva. cheers How would they know if it works or not until they try it. I’m a regular in the LG OLEDC8/E8 thread on AVS Forum, and series 8 models seem to have compatibility issues with Denon receivers according to their owners, should LG have warned me ahead of time about this? If there were a universal industry protocol for CEC then we wouldn’t be having this discussion as it would just work, but as it is, this is just another HDMI feature that isn’t reliable, just as I think eARC will be as unreliable as ARC. In theory HDMI CEC/ARC are useful features, but in reality out in the wild has proven them to be spotty at best. Since eArc does not require HDMI CEC negation, there is room for optimism. - Rich |
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Post by mick on Mar 1, 2019 21:48:13 GMT -5
If i wanted to sell my XMC-1 am i obliged to tell the purchaser that the CEC doesn't work? and if there are any other problems please ring Emotiva. cheers How would they know if it works or not until they try it. I’m a regular in the LG OLEDC8/E8 thread on AVS Forum, and series 8 models seem to have compatibility issues with Denon receivers according to their owners, should LG have warned me ahead of time about this? If there were a universal industry protocol for CEC then we wouldn’t be having this discussion as it would just work, but as it is, this is just another HDMI feature that isn’t reliable, just as I think eARC will be as unreliable as ARC. In theory HDMI CEC/ARC are useful features, but in reality out in the wild has proven them to be spotty at best. "How would they know if it works or not until they try it." What? is this a trick question! |
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Post by mick on Mar 1, 2019 21:57:16 GMT -5
LCSeminole, So why does Emotiva have it included in the board in the first place if it's known to have problems?
To me it doesn't matter if some use it or not, it should work, there bought this on them selves as far as i'm concerned if they know of the problems, same goes for arc, Where's the warning? they wont as they feel they might lose sales?
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Mar 2, 2019 1:54:17 GMT -5
LCSeminole, So why does Emotiva have it included in the board in the first place if it's known to have problems? To me it doesn't matter if some use it or not, it should work, there bought this on them selves as far as i'm concerned if they know of the problems, same goes for arc, Where's the warning? they wont as they feel they might lose sales? I'm guessing for you to ask said question, that you just don't understand the lack of a universal industry protocol for this? For my answer, why would any manufacturer include this feature on their equipment knowing that it is not compatible with every other manufacturer's version of CEC ? |
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Post by mick on Mar 2, 2019 4:37:52 GMT -5
LCSeminole, So why does Emotiva have it included in the board in the first place if it's known to have problems? To me it doesn't matter if some use it or not, it should work, there bought this on them selves as far as i'm concerned if they know of the problems, same goes for arc, Where's the warning? they wont as they feel they might lose sales? I'm guessing for you to ask said question, that you just don't understand the lack of a universal industry protocol for this? For my answer, why would any manufacturer include this feature on their equipment knowing that it is not compatible with every other manufacturer's version of CEC ? You lost me! you seem to be saying the consumer should know better? i'll move along from this. |
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