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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 11, 2019 21:54:30 GMT -5
COMPARISON: RMC-1 vs. RMC-1L vs. XMC-2
Here's a spreadsheet (in PDF) comparing some of the major features of all three (and comparing them to the XMC-1).
I’d say the “Top Surround Format” line should be highlighted green, Atmos / DTS:X is certainly a distinction from the XMC-1, I’d add the Dolby Upmixer In there too (though I don’t hear much talk of it here). Nice sheet though! |
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Post by novisnick on Jun 12, 2019 6:46:49 GMT -5
COMPARISON: RMC-1 vs. RMC-1L vs. XMC-2
Here's a spreadsheet (in PDF) comparing some of the major features of all three (and comparing them to the XMC-1).
So, for 2K more an RMC-1 buyer will get three expansion bays, otherwise it’s identical to the RMC-1L? I’m reading that correctly? 😲 |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 12, 2019 6:54:57 GMT -5
So, for 2K more an RMC-1 buyer will get three expansion bays, otherwise it’s identical to the RMC-1L? I’m reading that correctly? 😲 It’s $2K more than the XMC-2, $1200 more than the RMC-1L. (though that points out the price is missing from the comparison) |
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Post by davidl81 on Jun 12, 2019 7:28:48 GMT -5
So, for 2K more an RMC-1 buyer will get three expansion bays, otherwise it’s identical to the RMC-1L? I’m reading that correctly? 😲 It’s $2K more than the XMC-2, $1200 more than the RMC-1L. (though that points out the price is missing from the comparison) I thought they were all at $1000 delta's in price point? XMC-2=$2999 RMC-1L=$3999 RMC-1=$4999 And really right now its hard to see why the RMC-1 is $2000 more than the XMC-2. For stereo sound they should be identical, and in HT use I really doubt anyone can hear the difference in the fully balanced surround channels, but at least that's a tangible difference. I do think the front of the RMC-1 is much better looking than the XMC-2, but is that worth $2000? The caveat to all of this is what will the expansion modules bring. It will be a lot easier to decide on the correct pre/pro once those are announced and their price points are out there. |
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Post by novisnick on Jun 12, 2019 7:57:07 GMT -5
It’s $2K more than the XMC-2, $1200 more than the RMC-1L. (though that points out the price is missing from the comparison) I thought they were all at $1000 delta's in price point? XMC-2=$2999 RMC-1L=$3999 RMC-1=$4999 And really right now its hard to see why the RMC-1 is $2000 more than the RMC-1. For stereo sound they should be identical, and in HT use I really doubt anyone can hear the difference in the fully balanced surround channels, but at least that's a tangible difference. I do think the front of the RMC-1 is much better looking than the XMC-2, but is that worth $2000? The caveat to all of this is what will the expansion modules bring. It will be a lot easier to decide on the correct pre/pro once those are announced and their price points are out there. I really hate to be picky BUT, announced gear (expansion modules) are not functional products brought to market. |
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Post by cwt on Jun 12, 2019 7:59:12 GMT -5
So, for 2K more an RMC-1 buyer will get three expansion bays, otherwise it’s identical to the RMC-1L? I’m reading that correctly? 😲 Its fair to say we still don't know what capabilities the expansion bays will provide Nick as the dsp processing in the add ons will possibly allow things like multiple sub bass management ; bi amping ; tri amping electronic crossovers as Dan has said  Just came across a relevant site for you btw [if you want to try one instead of the RMC1??] that lists the RMC1L with similar features to the XMC2 that has another popular asked for thing " Independent audio input selection for each video input. (The user can associate any audio source with any video input. In addition, the user may temporarily choose to listen to any audio-only source while watching any video input.)" Its hard to make an informed choice of SSP with a drip feed of piecemeal info ; ide love to know if the dirac 3 tier level of bass management is going to be applied - if at all ?  HDMI 2.1 - can we expect certain features of this with 2.0b like other CE's .. The trickle is about to ramp up I feel though.. www.quebecacoustic.com/en/product/emotiva-rmc-1l/ |
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Post by davidl81 on Jun 12, 2019 8:45:37 GMT -5
I thought they were all at $1000 delta's in price point? XMC-2=$2999 RMC-1L=$3999 RMC-1=$4999 And really right now its hard to see why the RMC-1 is $2000 more than the RMC-1. For stereo sound they should be identical, and in HT use I really doubt anyone can hear the difference in the fully balanced surround channels, but at least that's a tangible difference. I do think the front of the RMC-1 is much better looking than the XMC-2, but is that worth $2000? The caveat to all of this is what will the expansion modules bring. It will be a lot easier to decide on the correct pre/pro once those are announced and their price points are out there. I really hate to be picky BUT, announced gear (expansion modules) are not functional products brought to market. Oh I agree 100%. IF you had to buy one today (assuming all three were available) the XMC-2 would most likely be the choice. I would think they hold off on the RMC-1L release until they get expansion modules out on the market for the RMC-1 since they would be asking people to spend $1000 more for the RMC-1 with a promise of some vague expansion modules that may give more channels, but at an unknown price point. Just a guess on my part. |
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Post by goozoo on Jun 12, 2019 9:56:55 GMT -5
I swear, I think they give up little crumbs just to keep this thread going 😜.
The biggest advantage with the RMC1 will be the ability to expand the subwoofer inputs so that the additional subs will act as boundary woofers for the bed channels thus redirecting bass to a particular sub and acting as a full range speaker. This is what many of the high end processors do now. When these expansion modules will be available and how stable they will be is an entirely different matter. We are still waiting for FW1.4 and an actual working unit without problems. There will still remain the question of DTS:X Pro as well as IMAX Enhanced and whether or not that will ever get implemented. As for DIRAC they have switched to a single platform across all manufacturers so it will be whatever version is released. So while yes it is nice to look at a pretty spreadsheet, much bigger questions remain for Emotiva which need to be sorted out if they are to stay competitive in the processor market.
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Post by skiman1 on Jun 12, 2019 23:29:03 GMT -5
For years, my 2 side surround and 2 rear surround speakers had a 60 Hz hum with 2 different processors ( the main stereo pair, center channel, and subs have always been quiet). I tried all the recommended remedies, believe me, to no avail. After installing my RMC-1, the hum is gone! The only fundamental difference I can attribute this too is the fact that the RMC-1 is a true differentially balanced design on all channels, including of course, the side and rear surrounds, whereas the previous processors were not. Newly added ceiling speakers are quiet too. |
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Post by deewan on Jun 13, 2019 8:13:04 GMT -5
For years, my 2 side surround and 2 rear surround speakers had a 60 Hz hum with 2 different processors ( the main stereo pair, center channel, and subs have always been quiet). I tried all the recommended remedies, believe me, to no avail. After installing my RMC-1, the hum is gone! The only fundamental difference I can attribute this too is the fact that the RMC-1 is a true differentially balanced design on all channels, including of course, the side and rear surrounds, whereas the previous processors were not. Newly added ceiling speakers are quiet too. I had a similar experience. My Marantz 7704 had a hum/hiss in the side and rear surrounds. It was almost a combination of a ground loop and a high noise floor. But when I tested for the ground loop that didn't seem to be the culprit. When I installed the RMC all channels were silent. However, as I swapped out the RMC for an 8805 the 8805 was also very quite. |
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Post by goozoo on Jun 13, 2019 8:15:25 GMT -5
For years, my 2 side surround and 2 rear surround speakers had a 60 Hz hum with 2 different processors ( the main stereo pair, center channel, and subs have always been quiet). I tried all the recommended remedies, believe me, to no avail. After installing my RMC-1, the hum is gone! The only fundamental difference I can attribute this too is the fact that the RMC-1 is a true differentially balanced design on all channels, including of course, the side and rear surrounds, whereas the previous processors were not. Newly added ceiling speakers are quiet too. I had a similar experience. My Marantz 7704 had a hum/hiss in the side and rear surrounds. It was almost a combination of a ground loop and a high noise floor. But when I tested for the ground loop that didn't seem to be the culprit. When I installed the RMC all channels were silent. However, as I swapped out the RMC for an 8805 the 8805 was also very quite. Are you finally done with the RMC1? Your last sentence got all of our attention following your saga. |
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Post by deewan on Jun 13, 2019 9:29:41 GMT -5
Are you finally done with the RMC1? Your last sentence got all of our attention following your saga. Right or wrong, this is where I'm at with the RMC (and Emotiva). I think the best analogy I can give, it's like having a family member you care for and you want to succeed have a self-destructive addiction. I am invested in the RMC (and Emotiva) and I really want to help them as much as possible so they can succeed because I care deeply about them and their product, but at each major issue I have to make a decision will things ever get better and how much longer do I try to help? The time, money and effort I've invested towards the RMC is not insignificant. I've honestly spent more time troubleshooting and researching than I have enjoying it. I truly want the product to work and as a "family member" I want to help Emotiva produce a fully functioning RMC. But at some point, I need to have an intervention (with myself) and make the choice of how much more I want to invest. After the dinging issue was discovered last Friday night I knew that RMC unit would be going back to Franklin and I had no other choice than to buy a processor that would allow me to watch content during the weekend while we entertained friends. I was going to be traveling for work the following week (this week) and the normal frustration experienced by my wife using the finicky RMC would boil over if she had no processor at all. With the help of a local AV store who completely understands my frustration, I scored a deal on a Marantz 8805. Saturday I pulled the dinging RMC out of the stack, boxed it up and prepped it for a return trip back to Franklin. I then installed the 8805, reprogrammed the Harmony remote and enjoyed an issue free weekend using my theater. My wife was so excited she could use the theater again without my help she didn't complain once about me asking her to print the return shipping label for the RMC and haul the box to the UPS store while I was out of town. The 8805 in the stack honestly made my travel less stressful as I knew I wouldn't get a call stating "I pushed 'Watch movie' button but nothing is displayed on the screen... how do I watch a movie?" So my processor sage includes switching from a 7704 to an RMC, swapping out that RMC due to hardware issues, swapping out THAT RMC for an RMC that dinged, removing the dining RMC and currently having an 8805 in my equipment stack. As the dinging RMC is on it's way back to Emotiva and I was told the RMC I sent back to Franklin two weeks ago will be shipped back to me today (Thursday) and should arrive Friday or Monday. A quick update on the RMC coming back to me. I shipped it back to Emotiva with all my user settings loaded. I was told after arriving in Franklin, they found some broken connections on the analog board. They were not sure how that happened but a new board was installed. This week I've had several conversations and was able to help troubleshoot the crackling heard in my middle overhead channels and the subwoofer becoming inactive when exiting out of the speaker preset menu. I was informed both issues will be resolved via future FW update. The issues were not hardware related. Getting back to my analogy, for now it seems the family member I love is in rehab, getting the help they need. I have a fully functioning theater again and time will tell if the RMC graduates from rehab and can transition back into normal society. If not, I'll pay return shipping and send the RMC back to Emotiva one final time. If it comes to that I'll have to stay strong knowing what I am doing is best for me and Emotiva. |
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Post by davidl81 on Jun 13, 2019 9:53:20 GMT -5
Are you finally done with the RMC1? Your last sentence got all of our attention following your saga. Right or wrong, this is where I'm at with the RMC (and Emotiva). I think the best analogy I can give, it's like having a family member you care for and you want to succeed have a self-destructive addiction. I am invested in the RMC (and Emotiva) and I really want to help them as much as possible so they can succeed because I care deeply about them and their product, but at each major issue I have to make a decision will things ever get better and how much longer do I try to help? The time, money and effort I've invested towards the RMC is not insignificant. I've honestly spent more time troubleshooting and researching than I have enjoying it. I truly want the product to work and as a "family member" I want to help Emotiva produce a fully functioning RMC. But at some point, I need to have an intervention (with myself) and make the choice of how much more I want to invest. After the dinging issue was discovered last Friday night I knew that RMC unit would be going back to Franklin and I had no other choice than to buy a processor that would allow me to watch content during the weekend while we entertained friends. I was going to be traveling for work the following week (this week) and the normal frustration experienced by my wife using the finicky RMC would boil over if she had no processor at all. With the help of a local AV store who completely understands my frustration, I scored a deal on a Marantz 8805. Saturday I pulled the dinging RMC out of the stack, boxed it up and prepped it for a return trip back to Franklin. I then installed the 8805, reprogrammed the Harmony remote and enjoyed an issue free weekend using my theater. My wife was so excited she could use the theater again without my help she didn't complain once about me asking her to print the return shipping label for the RMC and haul the box to the UPS store while I was out of town. The 8805 in the stack honestly made my travel less stressful as I knew I wouldn't get a call stating "I pushed 'Watch movie' button but nothing is displayed on the screen... how do I watch a movie?" So my processor sage includes switching from a 7704 to an RMC, swapping out that RMC due to hardware issues, swapping out THAT RMC for an RMC that dinged, removing the dining RMC and currently having an 8805 in my equipment stack. As the dinging RMC is on it's way back to Emotiva and I was told the RMC I sent back to Franklin two weeks ago will be shipped back to me today (Thursday) and should arrive Friday or Monday. A quick update on the RMC coming back to me. I shipped it back to Emotiva with all my user settings loaded. I was told after arriving in Franklin, they found some broken connections on the analog board. They were not sure how that happened but a new board was installed. This week I've had several conversations and was able to help troubleshoot the crackling heard in my middle overhead channels and the subwoofer becoming inactive when exiting out of the speaker preset menu. I was informed both issues will be resolved via future FW update. The issues were not hardware related. Getting back to my analogy, for now it seems the family member I love is in rehab, getting the help they need. I have a fully functioning theater again and time will tell if the RMC graduates from rehab and can transition back into normal society. If not, I'll pay return shipping and send the RMC back to Emotiva one final time. If it comes to that I'll have to stay strong knowing what I am doing is best for me and Emotiva. It just sucks that you would lose your 40% off card if you do return it. I would suggest if you do decide to move on from the RMC-1 just sell it here on the forum for maybe like $3750 or so. At least that way you can re-coup some of the value of the card. Unless Emotiva gives you the 40% off card back. |
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Post by Bonzo on Jun 13, 2019 9:54:54 GMT -5
You have the patience of an angel sir. You are a better man than I in this regard for sure. They absolutely deserve any and all thrashing you could give them, and I don't think anyone else here would say otherwise, even the koolaiders, Completely ridiculous. Every single person who works for Emotiva should be thoroughly embarrassed. The fact that they are not says a lot to me. It's disgusting really. |
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Post by Bonzo on Jun 13, 2019 9:59:55 GMT -5
If they don't give him back his 40% card after all the CRAP he's gone through being their free beta tester, then that could be the straw that broke the camels back for me and Emotiva, period, not just for this hunk of junk, but all Emotiva products. |
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Post by deewan on Jun 13, 2019 10:38:32 GMT -5
You have the patience of an angel sir. You are a better man than I in this regard for sure. They absolutely deserve any and all thrashing you could give them, and I don't think anyone else here would say otherwise, even the koolaiders, Completely ridiculous. Every single person who works for Emotiva should be thoroughly embarrassed. The fact that they are not says a lot to me. It's disgusting really. I think one thing that keeps me from losing my mind is, each time I'm about to say enough is enough I tend to get a call from someone at Emotiva. For example with the dinging RMC, I was given a very nice apology which I greatly appreciated. It doesn't change the fact the issue happened and the PITA it has been, but I felt it was an honest apology and that they truly cared. I've received apologies from other companies, small and large, when they screw up and it seems more like lip service and they are saying it only because they know they need to. Perhaps I'm being naive, but Emotiva truly does seem to have employees that care. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 13, 2019 10:57:21 GMT -5
I can see your point.... however, the green highlight is specifically for differences between the RMC-1, RMC-1L, and XMC-2 - and they all support Dolby Atmos and DTS:X and sixteen channels (the XMC-1 is just included for reference). The Dolby Upmixer is a part of the Atmos standard - so it doesn't count as a separate feature. (And thanks for the compliment - it seemed to be time for a simple comparison of all three units.)
COMPARISON: RMC-1 vs. RMC-1L vs. XMC-2
Here's a spreadsheet (in PDF) comparing some of the major features of all three (and comparing them to the XMC-1).
I’d say the “Top Surround Format” line should be highlighted green, Atmos / DTS:X is certainly a distinction from the XMC-1, I’d add the Dolby Upmixer In there too (though I don’t hear much talk of it here). Nice sheet though! |
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Post by Geronimo on Jun 13, 2019 11:07:45 GMT -5
I'm just wondering why doesn't Emotiva outsource, or hire some temporary programmers to help with the firmware, now that three to four units will share the same basic foundation.....Firmwares are getting better, but releasing stable versions is sloooooooooow, and they sometimes introduce new bugs....or break things that were already working. I just don't understand.....I truly don't get it.......
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Post by Bonzo on Jun 13, 2019 11:09:01 GMT -5
You have the patience of an angel sir. You are a better man than I in this regard for sure. They absolutely deserve any and all thrashing you could give them, and I don't think anyone else here would say otherwise, even the koolaiders, Completely ridiculous. Every single person who works for Emotiva should be thoroughly embarrassed. The fact that they are not says a lot to me. It's disgusting really. I think one thing that keeps me from losing my mind is, each time I'm about to say enough is enough I tend to get a call from someone at Emotiva. For example with the dinging RMC, I was given a very nice apology which I greatly appreciated. It doesn't change the fact the issue happened and the PITA it has been, but I felt it was an honest apology and that they truly cared. I've received apologies from other companies, small and large, when they screw up and it seems more like lip service and they are saying it only because they know they need to. Perhaps I'm being naive, but Emotiva truly does seem to have employees that care. Well that's good to hear, and only you can trust your gut. That being said, even when I've faced the nicest best customer service there is, sometimes it just doesn't matter in the end to me. A dud situation is a dud situation. Now they are basically holding the 40% card thing against you, and that's just not right. It has been SEVEN months and 3 units later, all with you basically being a free employee for them, and you are still not operational. IMO, at this point, they not only need to give you the 40% card back, but they should be giving you more than that. What that "more" is isn't up to me, but I know I'd be pressing them for both for sure. At this point I might consider their "nice" customer support as their effort to keep you from doing just that, kicking them in the gut, especially if it meant legal ramifications. Good luck to you man. I hope it works out the way you want it to. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 13, 2019 11:19:42 GMT -5
You are correct - from a purely audio standpoint the front three channels are the same on the XMC-2 as on the RMC-1 and the RMC-1L.
However, the RMC-1 and RMC-1L also include other "luxury" features - like the dual front panel displays and the cool encoder knob.
(Before you decide it's silly to pay that much for luxury features.... check out the price of adding fancy trim on a car or truck.)
For example, we already have people who seriously expect to eventually want more than sixteen channels, and that's one of the first features we plan to offer in an expansion module.
Of course, at least to a degree, what modules people buy will depend on what they cost, and which ones "future technology" have a use for (the next Atmos update is expected to support more than 16 channels).
And what modules we actually develop and market will depend on the ones people ask for, how much demand there is for each, and how much they cost to develop.
At the moment - modules we're "seriously considering" include.... - add on main/surround channels (four per module - possibly up to 12 total) - streaming support (audio, video, or both; possibly proprietary, Raspberry Pi based, or both)
- additional subwoofer channels (and possibly more advanced subwoofer processing support)
- a phono preamp - additional digital audio inputs - additional video support
It’s $2K more than the XMC-2, $1200 more than the RMC-1L. (though that points out the price is missing from the comparison) I thought they were all at $1000 delta's in price point? XMC-2=$2999 RMC-1L=$3999 RMC-1=$4999 And really right now its hard to see why the RMC-1 is $2000 more than the XMC-2. For stereo sound they should be identical, and in HT use I really doubt anyone can hear the difference in the fully balanced surround channels, but at least that's a tangible difference. I do think the front of the RMC-1 is much better looking than the XMC-2, but is that worth $2000? The caveat to all of this is what will the expansion modules bring. It will be a lot easier to decide on the correct pre/pro once those are announced and their price points are out there. |
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HDMI 2.1 - can we expect certain features of this with 2.0b like other CE's .. The trickle is about to ramp up I feel though..
