richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 890
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Post by richb on Jun 13, 2019 11:25:09 GMT -5
You are correct - from a purely audio standpoint the front three channels are the same on the XMC-2 as on the RMC-1 and the RMC-1L. However, the RMC-1 and RMC-1L also include other "luxury" features - like the dual front panel displays and the cool encoder knob.
(Before you decide it's silly to pay that much for luxury features.... check out the price of adding fancy trim on a car or truck.)
For example, we already have people who seriously expect to eventually want more than sixteen channels, and that's one of the first features we plan to offer in an expansion module.
Of course, at least to a degree, what modules people buy will depend on what they cost, and which ones "future technology" have a use for (the next Atmos update is expected to support more than 16 channels).
And what modules we actually develop and market will depend on the ones people ask for, how much demand there is for each, and how much they cost to develop.
At the moment - modules we're "seriously considering" include.... - add on main/surround channels (four per module - possibly up to 12 total) - streaming support (audio, video, or both; possibly proprietary, Raspberry Pi based, or both)
- additional subwoofer channels (and possibly more advanced subwoofer processing support)
- a phono preamp - additional digital audio inputs - additional video support
I thought they were all at $1000 delta's in price point? XMC-2=$2999 RMC-1L=$3999 RMC-1=$4999 And really right now its hard to see why the RMC-1 is $2000 more than the XMC-2. For stereo sound they should be identical, and in HT use I really doubt anyone can hear the difference in the fully balanced surround channels, but at least that's a tangible difference. I do think the front of the RMC-1 is much better looking than the XMC-2, but is that worth $2000? The caveat to all of this is what will the expansion modules bring. It will be a lot easier to decide on the correct pre/pro once those are announced and their price points are out there. \ At some point will we see S/N and THD specification for Reference stereo with and without processing? - Rich |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Jun 13, 2019 11:47:21 GMT -5
Engineering samples of various chips, as well as certain software drivers, often have a warning tone hard coded into them... The product functions exactly as intended - except for a tone every sixty seconds or so that makes it totally unsuitable for use in a finished product. (It's exactly equivalent to sample programs that "run exactly like the real thing - but can only record or play sixty seconds of your song".) The idea is to allow you to test the product - while not being able to use it in a finished product.
Very early in the production cycle, literally one or two RMC-1's escaped into the wild with engineering sample chips in them. With these particular chips, a tone was played every sixty seconds, as long as the unit was playing a source encoded in one particular mode. (We surmised that these particular units hadn't been tested in that particular mode.... )
This is NOT what is happening with this unit.
NOT a joke!!!! This is real. rhale64 had this same issue. From what I remember it's something like the Dolby decoder chip and if a licensing code of something isn't loaded/removed, it will ding like that every 60 seconds to ensure the chips aren't sold by companies who don't pay that licensing fee. So now I get to exchange my RMC for my fourth unit. Honestly, this is getting to be a little much. Your patience is amazing to me honestly. |
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Post by davidl81 on Jun 13, 2019 12:45:13 GMT -5
You are correct - from a purely audio standpoint the front three channels are the same on the XMC-2 as on the RMC-1 and the RMC-1L.
However, the RMC-1 and RMC-1L also include other "luxury" features - like the dual front panel displays and the cool encoder knob.
(Before you decide it's silly to pay that much for luxury features.... check out the price of adding fancy trim on a car or truck.)
For example, we already have people who seriously expect to eventually want more than sixteen channels, and that's one of the first features we plan to offer in an expansion module.
Of course, at least to a degree, what modules people buy will depend on what they cost, and which ones "future technology" have a use for (the next Atmos update is expected to support more than 16 channels).
And what modules we actually develop and market will depend on the ones people ask for, how much demand there is for each, and how much they cost to develop.
At the moment - modules we're "seriously considering" include.... - add on main/surround channels (four per module - possibly up to 12 total) - streaming support (audio, video, or both; possibly proprietary, Raspberry Pi based, or both)
- additional subwoofer channels (and possibly more advanced subwoofer processing support)
- a phono preamp - additional digital audio inputs - additional video support
I thought they were all at $1000 delta's in price point? XMC-2=$2999 RMC-1L=$3999 RMC-1=$4999 And really right now its hard to see why the RMC-1 is $2000 more than the XMC-2. For stereo sound they should be identical, and in HT use I really doubt anyone can hear the difference in the fully balanced surround channels, but at least that's a tangible difference. I do think the front of the RMC-1 is much better looking than the XMC-2, but is that worth $2000? The caveat to all of this is what will the expansion modules bring. It will be a lot easier to decide on the correct pre/pro once those are announced and their price points are out there. I don't think that the front panel differences are silly at all. If I do get a new pre/pro I will likely get the RMC-1 just because the case is the same height as my XPA amps and it will look a lot better in my cabinet than the shorter XMC-2 (now that is silly). In all likely hood the XMC-2 will do everything I need minus internal phono (not a big deal at all), but I just rather the look of the RMC-1. But this this was just going into a hidden cabinet somewhere it starts to get harder to spend money of the differences. |
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Post by goozoo on Jun 13, 2019 12:55:51 GMT -5
[/div] This is NOT what is happening with this unit.
Your patience is amazing to me honestly. [/quote] Keith, could you elaborate on what is happening with this unit to cause this problem if it’s not a chip issue? |
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Post by deewan on Jun 13, 2019 13:36:41 GMT -5
Engineering samples of various chips, as well as certain software drivers, often have a warning tone hard coded into them... The product functions exactly as intended - except for a tone every sixty seconds or so that makes it totally unsuitable for use in a finished product. (It's exactly equivalent to sample programs that "run exactly like the real thing - but can only record or play sixty seconds of your song".) The idea is to allow you to test the product - while not being able to use it in a finished product. Very early in the production cycle, literally one or two RMC-1's escaped into the wild with engineering sample chips in them. With these particular chips, a tone was played every sixty seconds, as long as the unit was playing a source encoded in one particular mode. (We surmised that these particular units hadn't been tested in that particular mode.... ) This is NOT what is happening with this unit.
I also would like to know. |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,261
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Post by KeithL on Jun 13, 2019 13:38:52 GMT -5
I don't know exactly.
The "engineering chip beep" will occur every sixty seconds you are listening to a Dolby Digital source - and only a Dolby Digital source - every minute you do so. It is quite distinctive - it will occur whenever that decoder function block is in use - and does not occur sporadically or only after the unit has been running for some time.
If this is the person who spoke to myself and Damon earlier today on the phone...
Then I believe we're talking about a single series of beeps or buzzes that happened once and then weren't repeated. He have had a few reports of things like that - and we're still looking into exactly what caused them.
(We suspect something software related - perhaps causing some sort of calculation overrun under some very specific condition.)
[/div] This is NOT what is happening with this unit.
Your patience is amazing to me honestly. [/quote] Keith, could you elaborate on what is happening with this unit to cause this problem if it’s not a chip issue? [/quote] |
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Post by deewan on Jun 13, 2019 13:46:57 GMT -5
I don't know exactly. The "engineering chip beep" will occur every sixty seconds you are listening to a Dolby Digital source - and only a Dolby Digital source - every minute you do so. It is quite distinctive - it will occur whenever that decoder function block is in use - and does not occur sporadically or only after the unit has been running for some time.
If this is the person who spoke to myself and Damon earlier today on the phone...
Then I believe we're talking about a single series of beeps or buzzes that happened once and then weren't repeated. He have had a few reports of things like that - and we're still looking into exactly what caused them.
(We suspect something software related - perhaps causing some sort of calculation overrun under some very specific condition.)
I did not speak to you or Damon today. I did speak to Damon yesterday. During that phone conversation with Damon the dinging was caused by an engineering sample sneaking out. I was told a meeting was being held to discover how the sample chip made it out into the wild. So it appears we have a disconnect in what you are saying and what I was told. Either I completely misunderstood what Damon told me yesterday and whatever he said I somehow came up with the engineering sample story in my head (which I had not discussed until now), Damon lied to me yesterday about the cause of the dinging or you are mistaken with your comment above. The dinging I experienced was every 60 seconds while watching Dolby content using my cable box. I would imagine you don't owe me an answer, but this is the sort of communication that makes me forget about honest apologies and reminds me of the headache the RMC has been. In a private phone conversation I am told one thing and asked not to share the information, then a post on a forum from an Emotiva employee communicates something completely different about my situation to the masses. So with the world reading along, when my dinging RMC is received at Emotiva world headquarters tomorrow please let us all know what is causing the dinging if it is not the engineering chip. Thanks! ------------
JUST TO CLARIFY THE SITUATION HERE......
In my post I said: "If this is the person who spoke to myself and Damon earlier today on the phone..." Clearly that was in fact not the case... although I do apologize for any misunderstanding.
I based that supposition on the fact that this is a relatively uncommon issue and we spoke to someone
about a similar situation on the phone today - but I didn't look up that person's forum username.
Keith
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,261
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Post by KeithL on Jun 13, 2019 13:51:20 GMT -5
No..... this is more like a custom trailer hitch..... You pay extra for a trailer hitch, even if you don't have a trailer, because you believe that someday you may acquire a trailer to hitch to it.
(The feature is that "the RMC-1 has expansion ports which can be used for expansion modules".)
At this point I don't know for sure what modules will ever be developed and offered for sale. However, since there seems to be significant demand for the channel-expansion modules, I would say it's quite likely we'll have those available shortly. And we have plans for several others... and, of course, we may eventually come up with more ideas.
(Obviously, if you purchase the unit without the expansion bays, you will not be able to avail yourself of any expansion modules we eventually offer.)
The choice is obviously yours either way.
I thought they were all at $1000 delta's in price point? XMC-2=$2999 RMC-1L=$3999 RMC-1=$4999 And really right now its hard to see why the RMC-1 is $2000 more than the RMC-1. For stereo sound they should be identical, and in HT use I really doubt anyone can hear the difference in the fully balanced surround channels, but at least that's a tangible difference. I do think the front of the RMC-1 is much better looking than the XMC-2, but is that worth $2000? The caveat to all of this is what will the expansion modules bring. It will be a lot easier to decide on the correct pre/pro once those are announced and their price points are out there. I really hate to be picky BUT, announced gear (expansion modules) are not functional products brought to market. |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,261
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Post by KeithL on Jun 13, 2019 14:00:28 GMT -5
For any video input (for example HDMI 4), you may choose a different audio source to associate with it (for example Coax 2).... This capability was available on the XMC-1, and is also available on the XMC-2, the RMC-1L, and the RMC-1.
The product page for the RMC-1 has been up for quite some time... And the product page for the XMC-2 is now up as well... So, for 2K more an RMC-1 buyer will get three expansion bays, otherwise it’s identical to the RMC-1L? I’m reading that correctly? 😲 Its fair to say we still don't know what capabilities the expansion bays will provide Nick as the dsp processing in the add ons will possibly allow things like multiple sub bass management ; bi amping ; tri amping electronic crossovers as Dan has said  Just came across a relevant site for you btw [if you want to try one instead of the RMC1??] that lists the RMC1L with similar features to the XMC2 that has another popular asked for thing " Independent audio input selection for each video input. (The user can associate any audio source with any video input. In addition, the user may temporarily choose to listen to any audio-only source while watching any video input.)" Its hard to make an informed choice of SSP with a drip feed of piecemeal info ; ide love to know if the dirac 3 tier level of bass management is going to be applied - if at all ?  HDMI 2.1 - can we expect certain features of this with 2.0b like other CE's .. The trickle is about to ramp up I feel though.. www.quebecacoustic.com/en/product/emotiva-rmc-1l/ |
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Post by novisnick on Jun 13, 2019 14:01:47 GMT -5
No..... this is more like a custom trailer hitch..... You pay extra for a trailer hitch, even if you don't have a trailer, because you believe that someday you may acquire a trailer to hitch to it.
(The feature is that "the RMC-1 has expansion ports which can be used for expansion modules".)
At this point I don't know for sure what modules will ever be developed and offered for sale. However, since there seems to be significant demand for the channel-expansion modules, I would say it's quite likely we'll have those available shortly. And we have plans for several others... and, of course, we may eventually come up with more ideas.
(Obviously, if you purchase the unit without the expansion bays, you will not be able to avail yourself of any expansion modules we eventually offer.)
The choice is obviously yours either way.
I really hate to be picky BUT, announced gear (expansion modules) are not functional products brought to market. Woe There! The way it reads to me now is that there is NO PROMISE of ANY MODULE! Just that there are three ports if Emotiva EVER decides to MAKE a MODULE for the RMC-1. This is NOT what I expected to hear from anyone at Emotiva! Im not liking what I’m hearing, @keithl IF I’m mistaken please clear this up NOW! I pray I’m misinterpreting your statements. 2K for a maybe? 😳 |
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Post by davidl81 on Jun 13, 2019 14:08:05 GMT -5
No..... this is more like a custom trailer hitch..... You pay extra for a trailer hitch, even if you don't have a trailer, because you believe that someday you may acquire a trailer to hitch to it.
(The feature is that "the RMC-1 has expansion ports which can be used for expansion modules".)
At this point I don't know for sure what modules will ever be developed and offered for sale. However, since there seems to be significant demand for the channel-expansion modules, I would say it's quite likely we'll have those available shortly. And we have plans for several others... and, of course, we may eventually come up with more ideas.
(Obviously, if you purchase the unit without the expansion bays, you will not be able to avail yourself of any expansion modules we eventually offer.)
The choice is obviously yours either way.
Woe There! They way it reads to me now is that there is NO PROMISE of ANY MODULE! Just that there are three ports if Emotiva EVER decides to MAKE a MODULE for the RMC-1. This is NOT what I expected to hear from anyone at Emotiva! Im not liking what I’m hearing, @keithl IF I’m mistaken please clear this up NOW! I pray I’m misinterpreting your statements. 2K for a maybe? 😳NIck, its 2k for a maybe and the dual OLED panels, and the knob don't forget the knob!! I'm just giving everyone a hard time on this post, don't take it too seriously. |
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Post by novisnick on Jun 13, 2019 14:11:48 GMT -5
Woe There! They way it reads to me now is that there is NO PROMISE of ANY MODULE! Just that there are three ports if Emotiva EVER decides to MAKE a MODULE for the RMC-1. This is NOT what I expected to hear from anyone at Emotiva! Im not liking what I’m hearing, @keithl IF I’m mistaken please clear this up NOW! I pray I’m misinterpreting your statements. 2K for a maybe? 😳NIck, its 2k for a maybe and the dual OLED panels, and the knob don't forget the knob!! I'm just giving everyone a hard time on this post, don't take it too seriously. BUT, I really do need a better explanation or I’ll really feel ripped off! I need this to be addressed ASAP, I am serious! |
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Post by Geronimo on Jun 13, 2019 14:18:29 GMT -5
EMOTIVA. You need to take a step back and RETHINK AUDIO. You have a lot of angry customers on the processor front. Why are you guys not listening to your customers? What is going on over there? Are you guys going bankrupt soon or closing business, and trying to get as much money before that happens?
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Post by Hair Nick on Jun 13, 2019 14:22:05 GMT -5
There are modules in development. The first up will be the extra XLR outs to get the unit to 28 channels.
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Post by davidl81 on Jun 13, 2019 14:27:21 GMT -5
There are modules in development. The first up will be the extra XLR outs to get the unit to 28 channels. I personally can't wait to see the RMC-1 28 channel combo pack Emotiva will sell. RMC-1 w/ extra channels XPA-DR-3 for Fronts Dual XPA-11's for 22 surround channels Bundle Discount!! |
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Lonnie
Emo Staff
admin
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
Posts: 6,999
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Post by Lonnie on Jun 13, 2019 14:51:17 GMT -5
Just to be clear here. We have a number of modules in development.
We have finished work on an audio input expansion and the next one is the channel output expansion, then the subwoofer expansion.
We have also finish the design of the Phono stage, just waiting on protoboards to be built.
Several others in works that I can't speak about here.
Lonnie
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Post by jcz06 on Jun 13, 2019 14:52:23 GMT -5
There are modules in development. The first up will be the extra XLR outs to get the unit to 28 channels. I personally can't wait to see the RMC-1 28 channel combo pack Emotiva will sell. RMC-1 w/ extra channels XPA-DR-3 for Fronts Dual XPA-11's for 22 surround channels Bundle Discount!! The room would be one big speaker ....... |
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Post by brutiarti on Jun 13, 2019 14:53:10 GMT -5
Never understood why Emotiva got into the endless world of code fixing. Terrible mistake for a “small company”. What will happen when TVs, streamers, etc update their software and new bugs start showing up?
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Post by skiman1 on Jun 13, 2019 14:55:15 GMT -5
Just to be clear here. We have a number of modules in development. We have finished work on an audio input expansion and the next one is the channel output expansion, then the subwoofer expansion. We have also finish the design of the Phono stage, just waiting on protoboards to be built. Several others in works that I can't speak about here. Lonnie The 'subwoofer expansion' is the main reason I opted for the RMC-1, as I have four subs, currently all connected to the single sub out. |
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richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 890
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Post by richb on Jun 13, 2019 14:57:04 GMT -5
Just to be clear here. We have a number of modules in development. We have finished work on an audio input expansion If this supports 7.1 analog in, then I vote that it be named the Bonzo  - Rich |
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HDMI 2.1 - can we expect certain features of this with 2.0b like other CE's .. The trickle is about to ramp up I feel though..
