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Post by aswiss on Jun 20, 2019 6:11:16 GMT -5
You are welcome. The RMC does have better sound quality even without room correction, but I'm not sure how much better it sounds when compared to the 8805. Considering the 8805 can be easily found for not much more than the RMC after a 40% coupon is used, if people are looking for a 7.1.6 setup they need to decide if the small sound quality improvement over the 8805 is worth the additional money and semi-quirky operations of the RMC. Again, assuming all the actual issues of the RMC are resolved. .... It won't be long before Monoprice releases their multi-channel receiver and that could put another dent in Emotiva's RMC plans. It was announced for Q3/19 if I remember well - so this is also some time to go - and not proven, that they will not run into similar problems as Emo with the RMC-1. |
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Lonnie
Emo Staff 
admin
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
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Post by Lonnie on Jun 20, 2019 9:04:53 GMT -5
Hello All,
First let me say that I am sorry for being MIA for a while. We have been swamped on so many fronts that I haven't had time to jump in here.
While I am thrilled at the feedback, positive responses and sales of the RMC-1, we continue to improve the product. To that end I want to bring you up to speed on a few things we have been working on.
Decreased output level. The lower output level of the latest rounds of code is correct and what it should have been from the beginning. This was an error on our part in the renderer from the git go that has been corrected with the help of Dolby. dolby requires a specific amount of headroom in the system that we misread in the spec during the initial phase of the code design. So what you have now is actually the correct output level that gives you the extended dynamic range Dolby requires.
Dirac: I'm do not know this gentleman that has been posting over on the AVS forum. He certainly isn't anyone I deal with directly at the Dirac and I can tell you with absolute certainty that he is not in the inner circle of what is going on. The truth is this. About half way through the development of the RMC-1 Dirac informed us that they were moving to a new code base and we would have to use it. Our legacy platform would no longer be allowed moving forward because it was to much work for them to support all the different companies using Dirac in different ways. Everyone would have to use the same version of code and Dirac would be the ones to get the deep code in the DSP chips, we would be responsible for the control interface. We have been promised by Dirac that they now have the deep code in the ADI chips and that a very basic version of this would be sent to use within a week to get us started on the interface. But it is by no means a complete API. Once we get this we will start work on our part.
Audio Drop outs: This is pretty much what it has always been. If we can reproduce the issue, we can find the cause and correct it. So your help to come up with a solid way to repeat the issue is key to solving any problems. As always, we continue to work on all issues reported but random drop outs are particularly hard to find.
Sluggish menu operation. This one has been a particularly difficult one to resolve and while we have internally made some huge advancements in this, we still have a bit of work to get it to where I'm happy with it. The issue stems from two things. The first is legacy code from the XMC-1. Instead of completely re-inventing the wheel for the RMC-1 we built off of the XMC-1 code base and have found there are some things lurking in the background slowing things down. These items are being addressed one by one and work continues to progress nicely. The other side of the coin is the SPI buss between the ADI chips in the decoder. The way ADI formatted the com ports is just not fast enough for the amount of traffic we are pushing down the pipeline. So we have taken on the monumental task of writing our own com systems to fix this. Again, progress is really good but needs to be vet'd carefully. So very soon you will see a new release that should accelerate the menu operation by an order of magnitude. This will also affect system stability in a good way.
I guess the last thing is expansion modules. I see a lot of speculation out there and just want to clear the air so to speak. As of right now we have engineering mule boards for a two channel fully balanced input module, a phono stage, subwoofer expansion (four outputs) and channel expansion for heights and widths. There are others in the works but I'm not going to bring them up till they get farther down the road.
Again, thank you all for your support, we couldn't do what we do without you.
Lonnie
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Post by goozoo on Jun 20, 2019 9:15:26 GMT -5
It was announced for Q3/19 if I remember well - so this is also some time to go - and not proven, that they will not run into similar problems as Emo with the RMC-1. The difference here being that ATI has far more engineering resources with a lot of experience at their disposal to come up with solutions. Remember they own DATASAT and Theta each with sophisticated processors and solid track records. The Monoprice HTP1 is what the industry is looking at as the next breakout product by the end of the year and every indication seems to point in their favor. |
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Lsc
Emo VIPs 
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Post by Lsc on Jun 20, 2019 10:17:06 GMT -5
It was announced for Q3/19 if I remember well - so this is also some time to go - and not proven, that they will not run into similar problems as Emo with the RMC-1. The difference here being that ATI has far more engineering resources with a lot of experience at their disposal to come up with solutions. Remember they own DATASAT and Theta each with sophisticated processors and solid track records. The Monoprice HTP1 is what the industry is looking at as the next breakout product by the end of the year and every indication seems to point in their favor. Just want to point out that Theta does not have a solid track record. I’ve been on the fence with Monoprice. Anyone know who builds their subs? Their amps look great, reminds me of the older Emotiva amps that I really like and probably will get them for my height channels whenever I get Atmos (patiently waiting for the XMC2). I think their new pre pro could be a giant killer but I’m gonna put my money on the XMC2 and Emotiva. |
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Post by SOWK on Jun 20, 2019 12:35:01 GMT -5
Audio Drop outs: This is pretty much what it has always been. If we can reproduce the issue, we can find the cause and correct it. So your help to come up with a solid way to repeat the issue is key to solving any problems. As always, we continue to work on all issues reported but random drop outs are particularly hard to find. I have not yet installed my RMC-1 in my system as the main processor, but it seems it should be very very easy to reproduce.
Use a HTPC and play a ripped Atmos movie with the .mkv extension.
Play the whole movie and not just 5 mins.
Not sure why Emotiva can't replicated it. LOL
I had a friend with the setup above and it would happen often.
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Post by cwt on Jun 20, 2019 13:00:01 GMT -5
As the RMC-1 is capable to transport all UHD Versions perfect (HDR10, Dolby Vision, HLG), and I don't need any upconversion from any devices like Darbee, Lumagen etc, in my setup, it's still the best AV I had - and I'm happy with it. The Dirac Code is for sure a customized version for EMO (was before for the XMC-1) - and so is for the NAD. As long as I'll get a Full Version with the Top Model RMC-1, I can wait for it until it's here. Some Time in Emo's words can be everything.
About prices - this will affect all products - as some US Products will encounter more Tax in several countries on exporting their goods. It's not only the import of parts from China to US.
This is the result of the current administrations politcs, and all manufacturer have to deal with it - end customer has to pay the bill anyway. Therefore, I'm happy to got one of the first RMC-1 here in Europe.
Yes to be specific the Lumagen would be to do frame by frame bitmapping and I do like the fact there are no de interlacers and scalers in the Emo pre pro's ; best left to panels and projectors  So too I was more referring to Flac's comment to homogenize the code ;as you say it has to be proprietary in talking to the dsp chipset. Depending on timing Emo could have been intent on Dirac ver 1 and decided late in the piece that 2.0 had to be it ; Emo are not shy about changing tack - they were intent on TACT room eq before Dirac turned up . The tariff situation is disheartening ; the old saying what goes around comes around is apropros . People forget that a cause of the great depression was countries putting up tariff barriers  edit ;just read Lonnies post ;dirac changed the goalposts with 2. |
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richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 890
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Post by richb on Jun 20, 2019 13:26:08 GMT -5
The tariff situation is disheartening ; the old saying what goes around comes around is apropros . People forget that a cause of the great depression was countries putting up tariff barriers edit ;just read Lonnies post ;dirac changed the goalposts with 2. You may want to do some additional reading on the great depression. It began with a run on the banks due to over-leveraged investment. In 1933, the Glass-Steagall Act was created to address the problem. When repealed in 1999, it set the stage for the 2006 with the sub-prime mortgage meltdown. www.investopedia.com/terms/g/glass_steagall_act.aspTariffs do not cause over-leverage also have no influence on the EU VAT. Perhaps, this thread should remain focused on the RMC-1.  - Rich |
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Post by TDifEQ on Jun 20, 2019 13:44:52 GMT -5
Hello All, First let me say that I am sorry for being MIA for a while. We have been swamped on so many fronts that I haven't had time to jump in here. While I am thrilled at the feedback, positive responses and sales of the RMC-1, we continue to improve the product. To that end I want to bring you up to speed on a few things we have been working on. Decreased output level. The lower output level of the latest rounds of code is correct and what it should have been from the beginning. This was an error on our part in the renderer from the git go that has been corrected with the help of Dolby. dolby requires a specific amount of headroom in the system that we misread in the spec during the initial phase of the code design. So what you have now is actually the correct output level that gives you the extended dynamic range Dolby requires. Dirac: I'm do not know this gentleman that has been posting over on the AVS forum. He certainly isn't anyone I deal with directly at the Dirac and I can tell you with absolute certainty that he is not in the inner circle of what is going on. The truth is this. About half way through the development of the RMC-1 Dirac informed us that they were moving to a new code base and we would have to use it. Our legacy platform would no longer be allowed moving forward because it was to much work for them to support all the different companies using Dirac in different ways. Everyone would have to use the same version of code and Dirac would be the ones to get the deep code in the DSP chips, we would be responsible for the control interface. We have been promised by Dirac that they now have the deep code in the ADI chips and that a very basic version of this would be sent to use within a week to get us started on the interface. But it is by no means a complete API. Once we get this we will start work on our part. Audio Drop outs: This is pretty much what it has always been. If we can reproduce the issue, we can find the cause and correct it. So your help to come up with a solid way to repeat the issue is key to solving any problems. As always, we continue to work on all issues reported but random drop outs are particularly hard to find. Sluggish menu operation. This one has been a particularly difficult one to resolve and while we have internally made some huge advancements in this, we still have a bit of work to get it to where I'm happy with it. The issue stems from two things. The first is legacy code from the XMC-1. Instead of completely re-inventing the wheel for the RMC-1 we built off of the XMC-1 code base and have found there are some things lurking in the background slowing things down. These items are being addressed one by one and work continues to progress nicely. The other side of the coin is the SPI buss between the ADI chips in the decoder. The way ADI formatted the com ports is just not fast enough for the amount of traffic we are pushing down the pipeline. So we have taken on the monumental task of writing our own com systems to fix this. Again, progress is really good but needs to be vet'd carefully. So very soon you will see a new release that should accelerate the menu operation by an order of magnitude. This will also affect system stability in a good way. I guess the last thing is expansion modules. I see a lot of speculation out there and just want to clear the air so to speak. As of right now we have engineering mule boards for a two channel fully balanced input module, a phono stage, subwoofer expansion (four outputs) and channel expansion for heights and widths. There are others in the works but I'm not going to bring them up till they get farther down the road. Again, thank you all for your support, we couldn't do what we do without you. Lonnie ***** Even though I don't stream, can you summarize how you are addressing all the streaming issues ... just surprised you did not mention it. |
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Post by hsamwel on Jun 20, 2019 14:20:40 GMT -5
Why can’t Emotiva fix a special firmware for those with serious problems that log everything that’s happening?
This is done inte computer industry all the time to find bugs.
It seems it could be some buffert or timing issue as the dropouts happens on even intervals.
I have finally ordered my RMC-1. 😎 Can’t wait to get it.
The single most expensive HT gear I have ever bought..
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Lonnie
Emo Staff
admin
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
Posts: 6,999
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Post by Lonnie on Jun 20, 2019 14:36:36 GMT -5
Hello All, First let me say that I am sorry for being MIA for a while. We have been swamped on so many fronts that I haven't had time to jump in here. While I am thrilled at the feedback, positive responses and sales of the RMC-1, we continue to improve the product. To that end I want to bring you up to speed on a few things we have been working on. Decreased output level. The lower output level of the latest rounds of code is correct and what it should have been from the beginning. This was an error on our part in the renderer from the git go that has been corrected with the help of Dolby. dolby requires a specific amount of headroom in the system that we misread in the spec during the initial phase of the code design. So what you have now is actually the correct output level that gives you the extended dynamic range Dolby requires. Dirac: I'm do not know this gentleman that has been posting over on the AVS forum. He certainly isn't anyone I deal with directly at the Dirac and I can tell you with absolute certainty that he is not in the inner circle of what is going on. The truth is this. About half way through the development of the RMC-1 Dirac informed us that they were moving to a new code base and we would have to use it. Our legacy platform would no longer be allowed moving forward because it was to much work for them to support all the different companies using Dirac in different ways. Everyone would have to use the same version of code and Dirac would be the ones to get the deep code in the DSP chips, we would be responsible for the control interface. We have been promised by Dirac that they now have the deep code in the ADI chips and that a very basic version of this would be sent to use within a week to get us started on the interface. But it is by no means a complete API. Once we get this we will start work on our part. Audio Drop outs: This is pretty much what it has always been. If we can reproduce the issue, we can find the cause and correct it. So your help to come up with a solid way to repeat the issue is key to solving any problems. As always, we continue to work on all issues reported but random drop outs are particularly hard to find. Sluggish menu operation. This one has been a particularly difficult one to resolve and while we have internally made some huge advancements in this, we still have a bit of work to get it to where I'm happy with it. The issue stems from two things. The first is legacy code from the XMC-1. Instead of completely re-inventing the wheel for the RMC-1 we built off of the XMC-1 code base and have found there are some things lurking in the background slowing things down. These items are being addressed one by one and work continues to progress nicely. The other side of the coin is the SPI buss between the ADI chips in the decoder. The way ADI formatted the com ports is just not fast enough for the amount of traffic we are pushing down the pipeline. So we have taken on the monumental task of writing our own com systems to fix this. Again, progress is really good but needs to be vet'd carefully. So very soon you will see a new release that should accelerate the menu operation by an order of magnitude. This will also affect system stability in a good way. I guess the last thing is expansion modules. I see a lot of speculation out there and just want to clear the air so to speak. As of right now we have engineering mule boards for a two channel fully balanced input module, a phono stage, subwoofer expansion (four outputs) and channel expansion for heights and widths. There are others in the works but I'm not going to bring them up till they get farther down the road. Again, thank you all for your support, we couldn't do what we do without you. Lonnie ***** Even though I don't stream, can you summarize how you are addressing all the streaming issues ... just surprised you did not mention it. Nick would be the better guy to jump in on this one but simply put, we have all the most common streamers here and they just work. But then again, we are on a Gig network with 3 Gig internal switches. Nick is setting up some scenarios that will try to cripple it a bit and see if we can get any of the reported issues to present themselves. Again, it comes down to being able to recreate the issue in order to find a solution. Lonnie |
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Post by tom9933 on Jun 20, 2019 15:01:56 GMT -5
Nick/Lonnie
If I can do anything to help with the drop outs issue please let me know. I see the dropout problems with two situations
1) If I FFWD with recorded content from my DTV DVR, sometimes the audio just goes away. Rewinding a bit brings it back
2) Local movies and 2 channel streamed audio content (easy to reproduce with Amazon Music) from the Nvidia Shield. I see this both with local and remote streaming audio, it seems like a renegotiation issue. My local network is also all gigabit wired between the player and the local plex server. All client and server versions are the most recent GA versions.
I do not see the same issues with the Denon or the Pioneer before it. Based on the comments about the fixes for menu speed and the chip to chip communication I have to wonder if that same bottleneck is causing the drop out issue. IE there is a break in the data flow that causes a reset...
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Lonnie
Emo Staff
admin
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
Posts: 6,999
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Post by Lonnie on Jun 20, 2019 15:21:09 GMT -5
Nick/Lonnie If I can do anything to help with the drop outs issue please let me know. I see the dropout problems with two situations 1) If I FFWD with recorded content from my DTV DVR, sometimes the audio just goes away. Rewinding a bit brings it back 2) Local movies and 2 channel streamed audio content (easy to reproduce with Amazon Music) from the Nvidia Shield. I see this both with local and remote streaming audio, it seems like a renegotiation issue. My local network is also all gigabit wired between the player and the local plex server. All client and server versions are the most recent GA versions. I do not see the same issues with the Denon or the Pioneer before it. Based on the comments about the fixes for menu speed and the chip to chip communication I have to wonder if that same bottleneck is causing the drop out issue. IE there is a break in the data flow that causes a reset... Hi Tom, Thanks very much for the offer to help.I would take you up on that in a heartbeat except I don't think you have the equipment needed to monitor the what we need. That being said you and I are thinking along the same lines. I don't think the com line bottleneck is the issue because the data and audio lines are all separate. But I do believe that something triggers a renegotiation. Exactly what needs to be found and locked down. You see if the audio stream drops or the timing pulses go away for more then 50ms the DSP will go back into hunt mode until it can lock again. So finding out what is causing the momentary audio or clock loss is what we have to find. Thanks, Lonnie |
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Post by junchoon on Jun 20, 2019 21:46:43 GMT -5
Good to know the great progress is having with the RMC-1
Does the upcoming price hike affect RMC-1?
Thanks
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Post by novisnick on Jun 20, 2019 21:47:46 GMT -5
Good to know the great progress is having with the RMC-1 Does the upcoming price hike affect RMC-1? Thanks No |
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Post by cwt on Jun 21, 2019 0:16:41 GMT -5
The tariff situation is disheartening ; the old saying what goes around comes around is apropros . People forget that a cause of the great depression was countries putting up tariff barriers edit ;just read Lonnies post ;dirac changed the goalposts with 2. You may want to do some additional reading on the great depression. It began with a run on the banks due to over-leveraged investment. Perhaps, this thread should remain focused on the RMC-1. Note ;I said 'a' cause Rich ; anyway agree this is off on a tangent and best left here Ile just say read about the Smoot-Hawley tariff Act fortune.com/2018/03/04/did-tariffs-cause-the-great-depression/ |
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Post by junchoon on Jun 21, 2019 1:25:40 GMT -5
Good to know the great progress is having with the RMC-1 Does the upcoming price hike affect RMC-1? Thanks No Thanks for the clarification |
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Post by goozoo on Jun 21, 2019 3:01:40 GMT -5
The difference here being that ATI has far more engineering resources with a lot of experience at their disposal to come up with solutions. Remember they own DATASAT and Theta each with sophisticated processors and solid track records. The Monoprice HTP1 is what the industry is looking at as the next breakout product by the end of the year and every indication seems to point in their favor. Just want to point out that Theta does not have a solid track record. I’ve been on the fence with Monoprice. Anyone know who builds their subs? Their amps look great, reminds me of the older Emotiva amps that I really like and probably will get them for my height channels whenever I get Atmos (patiently waiting for the XMC2). I think their new pre pro could be a giant killer but I’m gonna put my money on the XMC2 and Emotiva. The Casablanca III and IV have been fairly stable in all the installs we have done and far less problems than the current RMC1. This was not always the case but did change when ATI bought them out. As for the Monoprice amps they too are made by ATI and we spec them routinely for all our height channels. Excellent and solid products built to last. |
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Post by mgbpuff on Jun 21, 2019 6:53:52 GMT -5
The Casablanca IV with only 12 channel capability costs upwards of $25,000. As an installer, you are not playing with your own money. The new Casablanca that will handle more channels, has not come out yet. That baby will cost even more and it requires a new chassis - so much for upgradability!
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Post by deewan on Jun 21, 2019 8:48:05 GMT -5
Audio Drop outs: This is pretty much what it has always been. If we can reproduce the issue, we can find the cause and correct it. So your help to come up with a solid way to repeat the issue is key to solving any problems. As always, we continue to work on all issues reported but random drop outs are particularly hard to find. Again, thank you all for your support, we couldn't do what we do without you. Lonnie |
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Post by Hair Nick on Jun 21, 2019 8:52:30 GMT -5
Audio Drop outs: This is pretty much what it has always been. If we can reproduce the issue, we can find the cause and correct it. So your help to come up with a solid way to repeat the issue is key to solving any problems. As always, we continue to work on all issues reported but random drop outs are particularly hard to find. Again, thank you all for your support, we couldn't do what we do without you. Lonnie I completely understand that bad internet connections aren't the only cause but for testing we are going to try to add as many buffers in the path to try and force a strain on the unit to try to trigger a dropout. We have our main NAS movie server here we have used with the Mede8er plus have tested using a couple of my external HHD's with movies plugged in via USB. We are testing every day with various connections to try and force the issue. |
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So too I was more referring to Flac's comment to homogenize the code ;as you say it has to be proprietary in talking to the dsp chipset. Depending on timing Emo could have been intent on Dirac ver 1 and decided late in the piece that 2.0 had to be it ; Emo are not shy about changing tack - they were intent on TACT room eq before Dirac turned up .
