KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 21, 2019 13:12:28 GMT -5
I can think of one or two other things worth checking (I haven't followed this from the beginning so pardon me if I'm repeating something that's already been asked). 1)
Do you have especially long or otherwise interesting HDMI cables (long cables, powered cables, cables with boosters in them)? 2)
Do you have any other sources plugged directly into the projector?
(Another HDMI device, connected directly to the projector, could be triggering it to renegotiate all of its input connections periodically.)
I completely understand that bad internet connections aren't the only cause but for testing we are going to try to add as many buffers in the path to try and force a strain on the unit to try to trigger a dropout. We have our main NAS movie server here we have used with the Mede8er plus have tested using a couple of my external HHD's with movies plugged in via USB. We are testing every day with various connections to try and force the issue. I don't know it this helps, but I get audio dropouts like clockwork regardless of source or content. They happen whether I'm streaming (via Xbox 1X or Apple TV, using Amazon Prime, Netflix, or Pandora), playing a game on the Xbox, or playing a disc (4k, 2k, or DVD) on my Oppo UDP-205 or XBox. The last code update shortened the dropouts a bit (they now last maybe 1/4 second), but they still occur about every 8 1/2 minutes without fail. I suspect perhaps it's an equipment mix or setting that causes the issue. I've tried unplugging my second display (which I've left unplugged for quite some time now) and all sources but one (the one I'm using), and that doesn't fix the problem. The only common denominator I haven't removed (due to logistics) is my Sony VPLVW385ES 4k projector. So I'm wondering if perhaps that is re-negotiating with the RMC and causing the issue? I've dug through the Sony menus to attempt to turn anything that might aggravate that problem off (such as CEC), but haven't found the culprit yet. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears. My next step is likely to bring a flat-panel TV (non-Sony) into the theater and test with that. If Emotiva needs a set of equipment that repeatedly generates these dropouts, my setup clearly does. I'd gladly volunteer my theater as a test bed if it would help in any way.
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Post by audiovideojunky on Jun 21, 2019 14:18:51 GMT -5
I can think of one or two other things worth checking (I haven't followed this from the beginning to pardon me if I'm repeating something that's already been asked).
1)
Do you have especially long or otherwise interesting HDMI cables (long cables, powered cables, cables with boosters in them)?
2)
Do you have any other sources plugged directly into the projector?
(Another HDMI device, connected directly to the projector, could be triggering it to renegotiate all of its input connections periodically.)
I don't know it this helps, but I get audio dropouts like clockwork regardless of source or content. They happen whether I'm streaming (via Xbox 1X or Apple TV, using Amazon Prime, Netflix, or Pandora), playing a game on the Xbox, or playing a disc (4k, 2k, or DVD) on my Oppo UDP-205 or XBox. The last code update shortened the dropouts a bit (they now last maybe 1/4 second), but they still occur about every 8 1/2 minutes without fail. I suspect perhaps it's an equipment mix or setting that causes the issue. I've tried unplugging my second display (which I've left unplugged for quite some time now) and all sources but one (the one I'm using), and that doesn't fix the problem. The only common denominator I haven't removed (due to logistics) is my Sony VPLVW385ES 4k projector. So I'm wondering if perhaps that is re-negotiating with the RMC and causing the issue? I've dug through the Sony menus to attempt to turn anything that might aggravate that problem off (such as CEC), but haven't found the culprit yet. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears. My next step is likely to bring a flat-panel TV (non-Sony) into the theater and test with that. If Emotiva needs a set of equipment that repeatedly generates these dropouts, my setup clearly does. I'd gladly volunteer my theater as a test bed if it would help in any way.
Thanks for the thoughts! 1) You might be on to something with the HDMI cables. The HDMI cables connecting source equipment are all passive 4k cables, but the cable going to my projector is a 20' Monoprice Luxe series ACTIVE 4k cable (see www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=301&cp_id=10240&cs_id=3010101&p_id=13755&seq=1&format=2). Fortunately I built my theater to permit easy swapping of cables. Should I try changing out this cable for a passive cable? Any recommendations on brand or model that supports a 20' length? If I determine this cable is the problem, then that might give Emotiva an inexpensive way to replicate at least one source of dropouts ;-) 2) There are no other HDMI sources plugged directly into the projector. I do have an Ethernet cable plugged in, but that's it.
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Jun 21, 2019 14:52:35 GMT -5
I can tell you that a "powered cable" actually has some complicated electronics in it, so there is every opportunity for it to have issues up to and including compatibility problems with specific gear. I don't personally have any particular recommendations for good long 4k cables.. I just know that we've had very mixed results with several. (Nobody here was familiar with that particular one, but Damon will be back from vacation on Monday, and he would be the one to ask about that. The problem is that HDMI in general is very complicated... and there's a lot of processing going on inside devices like projectors and smart TVs.
So, for example, if an HDMI device on one port somehow triggers a renegotiation, the HDMI circuitry in the projector could decide to renegotiate the connections on all of its inputs (we've seen that happen). Likewise, while there's no particular reason to suspect that's what's happening, it's possible that something occurring at the Ethernet port could cause the projector to renegotiate other things as well. (For example, as a remote possibility, something in your network could be renegotiating the IP address assigned to the projector, which could cause it to renegotiate other things at the same time.) Therefore, just as a matter of "eliminating as many variables as possible" I would try it with the Ethernet cable disconnected - just to see if it makes any difference.)
On that same note....
If it's convenient I would try temporarily connecting a shorter passive cable between the RMC-1 and the projector.
That way, if the problem still occurs, then we will have ruled out one more variable... and you won't have to worry about replacing the one you have.
And, if the problem does go away, then we can decide how to address replacing the cable.
I can think of one or two other things worth checking (I haven't followed this from the beginning to pardon me if I'm repeating something that's already been asked). 1)
Do you have especially long or otherwise interesting HDMI cables (long cables, powered cables, cables with boosters in them)? 2)
Do you have any other sources plugged directly into the projector?
(Another HDMI device, connected directly to the projector, could be triggering it to renegotiate all of its input connections periodically.)
Thanks for the thoughts! 1) You might be on to something with the HDMI cables. The HDMI cables connecting source equipment are all passive 4k cables, but the cable going to my projector is a 20' Monoprice Luxe series ACTIVE 4k cable (see www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=301&cp_id=10240&cs_id=3010101&p_id=13755&seq=1&format=2). Fortunately I built my theater to permit easy swapping of cables. Should I try changing out this cable for a passive cable? Any recommendations on brand or model that supports a 20' length? If I determine this cable is the problem, then that might give Emotiva an inexpensive way to replicate at least one source of dropouts ;-) 2) There are no other HDMI sources plugged directly into the projector. I do have an Ethernet cable plugged in, but that's it.
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Post by tabbycph on Jun 21, 2019 15:12:26 GMT -5
Audio Drop outs: This is pretty much what it has always been. If we can reproduce the issue, we can find the cause and correct it. So your help to come up with a solid way to repeat the issue is key to solving any problems. As always, we continue to work on all issues reported but random drop outs are particularly hard to find. I have not yet installed my RMC-1 in my system as the main processor, but it seems it should be very very easy to reproduce.
Use a HTPC and play a ripped Atmos movie with the .mkv extension.
Play the whole movie and not just 5 mins.
Not sure why Emotiva can't replicated it. LOL
I had a friend with the setup above and it would happen often.
Yes or play music from a htpc..., I got audio drops on every audio from the htpc, music or movies. My htpc are with a Asus Strix 2060 gfx card and highend hdmi cable to the rmc and the same from the rmc to my JVC NX7 projector, the cable are: Viablue |
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Post by Hair Nick on Jun 21, 2019 15:37:56 GMT -5
Update:
I've been beating on this today and was able to recreate the electronic/robot audio sound leading to a quick audio drop out. Using an android based media player with a 20' HDMI cable running to a 4K TV. I was able to recreate it 3 out of 3 times (different sections but all within the same 10 minute section) around 30 minutes into John Wick 2. The file was ripped into MKV format from the bluray running at 1080P from a HDD through USB 2.0.
I will continue to run tests the rest of the day.
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richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 890
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Post by richb on Jun 21, 2019 16:26:42 GMT -5
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Post by TDifEQ on Jun 21, 2019 16:35:23 GMT -5
Update: I've been beating on this today and was able to recreate the electronic/robot audio sound leading to a quick audio drop out. Using an android based media player with a 20' HDMI cable running to a 4K TV. I was able to recreate it 3 out of 3 times (different sections but all within the same 10 minute section) around 30 minutes into John Wick 2. The file was ripped into MKV format from the bluray running at 1080P from a HDD through USB 2.0. I will continue to run tests the rest of the day. How does this replicated the streaming issues Goozoo and Deewan are experiencing? Does Deewan and Goozoo buy into this method of testing? |
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Post by doc1963 on Jun 21, 2019 17:24:10 GMT -5
+1 on the Ruipro “Hybrid” fiber active cable. I’ve used a 10m in my setup for well over a year without a single issue. That’s with both my XMC-1 and my AV7703. Neither had a problem with the cable nor do I have to use a power inserter. Well worth every penny... |
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Post by TDifEQ on Jun 21, 2019 18:03:26 GMT -5
+1 on the Ruipro “Hybrid” fiber active cable. I’ve used a 10m in my setup for well over a year without a single issue. That’s with both my XMC-1 and my AV7703. Neither had a problem with the cable nor do I have to use a power inserter. Well worth every penny... Same here. I use 2 Ruipro 10M fiber cables, one from RMC-1 and the other from Lumagen Pro to JVC RS600 projector. Flawless. |
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Post by tom9933 on Jun 21, 2019 20:26:56 GMT -5
I would have to move things around to take the long cables out of the mix, but I have the following Metra Active HDMI cables in my setup.
Input side
DTV DVR - 3' passive cable... Should be fine as the DVR is quite old and using HDMI 1.1
Xbox/Sheild - Ethereal 25M VELOX ACTIVE T HDMI CABLE 18G DPL CERT
Output side
RMC1 to JVC 990 - Ethereal 20M VELOX ACTIVE T HDMI CABLE 18G DPL CERT
As I recall I purchased these cables specifically because they were certified by JVC for 18GB and 4k/HDR. This is also the same cable setup is what I used with the Denon without issue. Honestly I don't think its a cable issue as generally speaking with HDMI either things negotiate correctly or they don't...
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Post by goozoo on Jun 21, 2019 21:05:49 GMT -5
Update: I've been beating on this today and was able to recreate the electronic/robot audio sound leading to a quick audio drop out. Using an android based media player with a 20' HDMI cable running to a 4K TV. I was able to recreate it 3 out of 3 times (different sections but all within the same 10 minute section) around 30 minutes into John Wick 2. The file was ripped into MKV format from the bluray running at 1080P from a HDD through USB 2.0. I will continue to run tests the rest of the day. How does this replicated the streaming issues Goozoo and Deewan are experiencing? Does Deewan and Goozoo buy into this method of testing? This is fine except I’m running into a 1080p projector with HDMI 1.4 and there is no robot sound prior to the audio dropout. So for me it is happening before the signal goes to the projector. If people would read a little further back they would find that the dropout has more to do with a trigger event linked as a result of the constant signal check required by HDCP 2.2 as well as the way the Matroska container is made. This continues to pop up the more I look into it and isolating the trigger event (as Lonnie has proposed) to keep the audio signal locked will be the solution. Furthermore this whole notion that the network is somehow at fault has been debunked as I tested it with fiber channel running into a FSP switch then directly to the RMC1. No dice! I had stopped commenting on the matter as it seemed to be falling in deaf ears. Glad to see that Lonnie has caught onto it and will hopefully find a solution soon. |
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Post by cwt on Jun 22, 2019 1:27:07 GMT -5
Update: I've been beating on this today and was able to recreate the electronic/robot audio sound leading to a quick audio drop out. Using an android based media player with a 20' HDMI cable running to a 4K TV. I was able to recreate it 3 out of 3 times (different sections but all within the same 10 minute section) around 30 minutes into John Wick 2. The file was ripped into MKV format from the bluray running at 1080P from a HDD through USB 2.0. I will continue to run tests the rest of the day. As the Matroska container has been implicated Nick ; I wonder if a plain M2TS john wick file would cause the same ? [to rule out OR not a popular format in MKV] I have a lot of M2TS files  Just mention for members that ruipro has announced their new 8k ready cables for those with long runs and wanting future proofing ; www.stereo.net.au/news/ruipro-announces-next-gen-8k-hdmi-cables |
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Post by tom9933 on Jun 22, 2019 8:00:37 GMT -5
Considering I see audio negotiation issues with the DVR (although a bit different) I think we can rule out the container. When the issues pop up on the DVR the RMC overlay display shows PCM rather than Dolby Digital. Last night I actually had a new problem... Normally with the DVR when it drops a rewind of the content will bring it back. In this case I stopped the playback and even the live TV was without audio. To fix it I had to switch inputs back and forth. Also since the DVR uses a very short cable I think we can take that out of the mix unless its the RMC to display thats causing issues...
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Post by deewan on Jun 22, 2019 8:29:48 GMT -5
Allow me to clarify things. 1. The Mede8tor that we have is from Deewan and the files on it play perfectly here. No issues even with Deewan's original unit with his config file still in it. So we keep looking to see if there is some other interaction causing the issue. Lonnie To ensure the entire truth is out there, when I sent in my Mede8er media player and USB with content to test it was to demonstrate issues with FW 1.1. I was having issue with no audio, audio dropouts, and hdmi sync in general. The USB stick I sent with content doesn't have any files longer than ~8 minutes. With more recent FW versions, let's say FW 1.3, I have reported to Emotiva several times the audio dropouts happen at the 40-50 minute mark. Because of this I've offered to send a drive of full length movies to better test the 40-50 minute interval with files I know have issues. Emoiva has communicated that isn't needed. But what frustrates me is when I get a note from Emotiva that they "didn't have any dropouts in about 5 to 8 min test runs. but we do know it is happening out in the field." They don't appear to be testing the current issue I am reporting. They appear they may still be using the original files which will NOT produce the current list of issues I am experiencing. Again, the files I provided should play perfectly now with FW 1.3 or greater. If we are trying to track down the current list of issues then the files I've provided are likely useless unless used for regression testing. Another thing to note, my original user setting file I shared is also likely useless since the newer FW releases have added new selections for hdmi connections (1.4 vs 2.0) and overhead speaker types. I am willing to share anything to help Emotiva test as long as they are making sure they are truly duplicating my setup and testing the specific issue I report with the current FW I am using. |
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Post by goozoo on Jun 22, 2019 9:33:11 GMT -5
Considering I see audio negotiation issues with the DVR (although a bit different) I think we can rule out the container. When the issues pop up on the DVR the RMC overlay display shows PCM rather than Dolby Digital. Last night I actually had a new problem... Normally with the DVR when it drops a rewind of the content will bring it back. In this case I stopped the playback and even the live TV was without audio. To fix it I had to switch inputs back and forth. Also since the DVR uses a very short cable I think we can take that out of the mix unless its the RMC to display thats causing issues... The container itself is not the issue but rather how FFMPEG and Exo Player V2 interact with the MKV format. I don’t know if this is being worked on or not as I am not into the software side. .M2TS should not be (needs to be tested) problematic as it is the equivalent of what passes through when playing on a UHD player. |
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Post by cwt on Jun 22, 2019 12:21:03 GMT -5
.M2TS should not be (needs to be tested) problematic as it is the equivalent of what passes through when playing on a UHD player. Yes that's true ; as long as the RMC1 can handle h264 dvdfab compressed bluray files without dropouts that's all good |
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Post by tabbycph on Jun 22, 2019 12:29:37 GMT -5
Am I the only one, that has audio drops outs trouble on both appletv 4k and my htpc ? appletv4k dont get much talk anymore and let alone htpc setups, both has worked 100% fine with a Marantz 8802A I have even tried 3 different hdmi cables the devices and my jvc projector.
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Post by mick on Jun 22, 2019 12:39:09 GMT -5
Am I the only one, that has audio drops outs trouble on both appletv 4k and my htpc ? appletv4k dont get much talk anymore and let alone htpc setups, both has worked 100% fine with a Marantz 8802A I have even tried 3 different hdmi cables the devices and my jvc projector. Is anyone having audio drop outs without a projector in the mix? |
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Post by deewan on Jun 22, 2019 14:41:55 GMT -5
Am I the only one, that has audio drops outs trouble on both appletv 4k and my htpc ? appletv4k dont get much talk anymore and let alone htpc setups, both has worked 100% fine with a Marantz 8802A I have even tried 3 different hdmi cables the devices and my jvc projector. When I have reported streaming issues using my Gen 3 AppleTV, I've been told Emotiva is unable to duplicate the issue using their 4K AppleTV. I'm not sure if they are trying to duplicate my issue using a different piece of equipment, or if they are doing all sorts of tests and not experiencing any issues at all. Is anyone having audio drop outs without a projector in the mix? I have been able to reproduce audio dropouts when my JVC projector is completely unplugged from my system and I'm using my secondary monitor as a display device. |
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twism
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Post by twism on Jun 22, 2019 16:49:40 GMT -5
Am I the only one, that has audio drops outs trouble on both appletv 4k and my htpc ? appletv4k dont get much talk anymore and let alone htpc setups, both has worked 100% fine with a Marantz 8802A I have even tried 3 different hdmi cables the devices and my jvc projector. When I have reported streaming issues using my Gen 3 AppleTV, I've been told Emotiva is unable to duplicate the issue using their 4K AppleTV. I'm not sure if they are trying to duplicate my issue using a different piece of equipment, or if they are doing all sorts of tests and not experiencing any issues at all. Is anyone having audio drop outs without a projector in the mix? I have been able to reproduce audio dropouts when my JVC projector is completely unplugged form my system and I'm using my secondary monitor as a display device. What about disconnecting your monitor completely. I have yet to have a single audio dropout with the Apple TV. The only difference with me an others is my RMC only sees audio. Not the most fun testing with nothing to stare at but would be interested in hearing if you have a dropout with no monitor connected. |
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