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Post by garbulky on Jul 15, 2020 17:13:07 GMT -5
No never measured my room. Axiom is I believe anechoic. Room measurement is always worse especially below 200 h where room effects dominate. However treble information is far less affected by room. And that's why you advocate stuffing your room with padding? Hmmmmm.... Yes (but not because I didn't measure). I know my room has issues because I can audibly hear frequency dips and nulls on a frequency sweep. If I can clearly hear it, then there's room problems as measurements are far better. If you measure, you'll have better results in knowing where to put the acoustic panels/foam. I can also hear multiple slap echoes/ringing when I clap so I clearly haven't done enough or have placed it in sub-optimal places.
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Post by audiobill on Jul 15, 2020 17:17:11 GMT -5
Then frequencies over 200 hz are affected by room. Thought so.
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Post by foggy1956 on Jul 15, 2020 17:17:42 GMT -5
And that's why you advocate stuffing your room with padding? Hmmmmm.... Yes (but not because I didn't measure). I know my room has issues because I can audibly hear frequency dips and nulls on a frequency sweep. If I can clearly hear it, then there's room problems as measurements are far better. If you measure, you'll have better results in knowing where to put the acoustic panels/foam. I can also hear multiple slap echoes/ringing when I clap so I clearly haven't done enough or have placed it in sub-optimal places. Why not measure and post so at least both graphs are in a real room? What was the purpose of posting a graph of speakers in an anechoic chamber to real room measurements without even mentioning that fact? SMH
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Post by garbulky on Jul 15, 2020 17:19:26 GMT -5
No never measured my room. Axiom is I believe anechoic. Room measurement is always worse especially below 200 h where room effects dominate. However treble information is far less affected by room. So, the graphs you are posting are completely irrelevant? I don't think so. They are not directly comparable in all respects though but still useful to look at in the higher frequencies. I hope nobody thinks I'm trashing Shimei's awesome Tektons. I'm a fan of the company and I would love to own or listen to those speakers or really any model of Tektons....
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Post by garbulky on Jul 15, 2020 17:21:32 GMT -5
Then frequencies over 200 hz are affected by room. Thought so. Not in the way people usually take measurements - close to the speaker. By this I'm talking about closer to the treble frequencies. Under 200hz, the room dominates much worse.
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Post by audiobill on Jul 15, 2020 17:22:38 GMT -5
Gar, you may be overreaching.
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Post by foggy1956 on Jul 15, 2020 17:23:21 GMT -5
So, the graphs you are posting are completely irrelevant? I don't think so. They are not directly comparable in all respects though but still useful to look at in the higher frequencies. I hope nobody thinks I'm trashing Shimei's awesome Tektons. I'm a fan of the company and I would love to own or listen to those speakers or really any model of Tektons.... Sounded like you were slamming the chit out of them with 20db swings and improper time alignment? What were you really trying to say?
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Post by garbulky on Jul 15, 2020 17:27:01 GMT -5
I don't think so. They are not directly comparable in all respects though but still useful to look at in the higher frequencies. I hope nobody thinks I'm trashing Shimei's awesome Tektons. I'm a fan of the company and I would love to own or listen to those speakers or really any model of Tektons.... Sounded like you were slamming the chit out of them with 20db swings and improper time alignment? What were you really trying to say? You and Bill are getting upset over something I said. I guess you don't like me saying that something doesn't measure great. If you think it does, that's no issue with me. I think I was quite clear... so I'm not going to repeat. If I owned those Tekton's, I would be an incredibly happy person based on how much I liked the much smaller pendragons. FWIW, my Emotiva DC-1 which I love the heck out of also doesn't measure all that great when compared to other dacs. It's still my go-to dac.
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Post by audiobill on Jul 15, 2020 17:30:39 GMT -5
Need to own your statements and implications, imo.
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Post by foggy1956 on Jul 15, 2020 17:32:25 GMT -5
Sounded like you were slamming the chit out of them with 20db swings and improper time alignment? What were you really trying to say? You and Bill are getting upset over something I said. I guess you don't like me saying that something doesn't measure great. If you think it does, that's no issue with me. I think I was quite clear... so I'm not going to repeat. If I owned those Tekton's, I would be an incredibly happy person based on how much I liked the much smaller pendragons. FWIW, my Emotiva DC-1 which I love the heck out of also doesn't measure all that great when compared to other dacs. It's still my go-to dac. I just think it appropriate to compare apples to apples, comparing how speakers measure in a real room compared to an anechoic chamber seems disingenuous to me, no?
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Post by garbulky on Jul 15, 2020 17:51:19 GMT -5
You and Bill are getting upset over something I said. I guess you don't like me saying that something doesn't measure great. If you think it does, that's no issue with me. I think I was quite clear... so I'm not going to repeat. If I owned those Tekton's, I would be an incredibly happy person based on how much I liked the much smaller pendragons. FWIW, my Emotiva DC-1 which I love the heck out of also doesn't measure all that great when compared to other dacs. It's still my go-to dac. I just think it appropriate to compare apples to apples, comparing how speakers measure in a real room compared to an anechoic chamber seems disingenuous to me, no? Comparing anechoic data to in room data in the bass isn't a great comparison. higher frequencies is not that bad. Ideally we would have two anechoic results but anechoic data is expensive to obtain. The large 20 db difference may be from the room - if that's what you are getting at. Nevertheless in the higher frequencies the speaker isn't really all that flat. So I think I'm accurate in saying that it doesn't measure all that great in stock configuration. Now the DSP version, looks like they freaking nailed it!
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Post by garbulky on Jul 15, 2020 17:55:53 GMT -5
Need to own your statements and implications, imo. I really can't think how it could be more clear.
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Post by foggy1956 on Jul 15, 2020 18:03:48 GMT -5
I just think it appropriate to compare apples to apples, comparing how speakers measure in a real room compared to an anechoic chamber seems disingenuous to me, no? Comparing anechoic data to in room data in the bass isn't a great comparison. higher frequencies is not that bad. Ideally we would have two anechoic results but anechoic data is expensive to obtain. The large 20 db difference may be from the room - if that's what you are getting at. Nevertheless in the higher frequencies the speaker isn't really all that flat. So I think I'm accurate in saying that it doesn't measure all that great in stock configuration. Now the DSP version, looks like they freaking nailed it! Suppose mic position in an anechoic chamber compared to mlp in a real room has anything to do with your thoughts on higher frequencies?
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Post by foggy1956 on Jul 15, 2020 18:06:03 GMT -5
I just think it appropriate to compare apples to apples, comparing how speakers measure in a real room compared to an anechoic chamber seems disingenuous to me, no? Comparing anechoic data to in room data in the bass isn't a great comparison. higher frequencies is not that bad. Ideally we would have two anechoic results but anechoic data is expensive to obtain. The large 20 db difference may be from the room - if that's what you are getting at. Nevertheless in the higher frequencies the speaker isn't really all that flat. So I think I'm accurate in saying that it doesn't measure all that great in stock configuration. Now the DSP version, looks like they freaking nailed it! How about two real room results, run a sweep of you Axioms and we can do a more similar comparison?
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Post by garbulky on Jul 15, 2020 19:34:37 GMT -5
Comparing anechoic data to in room data in the bass isn't a great comparison. higher frequencies is not that bad. Ideally we would have two anechoic results but anechoic data is expensive to obtain. The large 20 db difference may be from the room - if that's what you are getting at. Nevertheless in the higher frequencies the speaker isn't really all that flat. So I think I'm accurate in saying that it doesn't measure all that great in stock configuration. Now the DSP version, looks like they freaking nailed it! Suppose mic position in an anechoic chamber compared to mlp in a real room has anything to do with your thoughts on higher frequencies? Microphone positioning can change the results. Yep.
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Post by garbulky on Jul 15, 2020 19:36:01 GMT -5
Comparing anechoic data to in room data in the bass isn't a great comparison. higher frequencies is not that bad. Ideally we would have two anechoic results but anechoic data is expensive to obtain. The large 20 db difference may be from the room - if that's what you are getting at. Nevertheless in the higher frequencies the speaker isn't really all that flat. So I think I'm accurate in saying that it doesn't measure all that great in stock configuration. Now the DSP version, looks like they freaking nailed it! How about two real room results, run a sweep of you Axioms and we can do a more similar comparison? I don't feel like it. I'm pretty certain the Ulberfeights would sound better than mine though especially in the bass. Mine rolls off at about 40 hertz. I think eventually when I get dual subs I will go to the bother of getting some measurements done so I can optimize placement.
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Post by mfeust on Jul 16, 2020 11:23:13 GMT -5
Thanks, and besides Diana Krall: Madeleine Peyroux Melody Gardot Going to Tidal now to add the recommended artist! Thanks a million. +1 for Melody Gardot... I will have to check out the rest! I love Melody Gardot. Check out her story of a severe brain injury due to a bicycle accident and how music saved her life. Mark
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Post by mfeust on Jul 16, 2020 11:26:08 GMT -5
+1 for Melody Gardot... I will have to check out the rest! I love Melody Gardot. Check out her story of a severe brain injury due to a bicycle accident and how music saved her life. Mark While riding her bicycle in Philadelphia in November 2003,[6][7] Gardot was struck by the driver of an SUV and sustained head, spinal, and pelvic injuries.[1] Confined to a hospital bed for a year, she needed to relearn simple tasks and was left oversensitive to light and sound.[3] Suffering from short- and long-term memory loss, she struggled with her sense of time.[8][9] Encouraged by a physician who believed music would help heal her brain, Gardot learned to hum, then to sing into a tape recorder, and eventually to write songs.[10] For several years, she traveled with a physiotherapist and carried a transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulator to reduce pain.[3][9] Given her oversensitivity to sound, she chose quieter music. On the treadmill, she listened to bossa nova by Stan Getz. Unable to sit comfortably at the piano, she learned to play guitar on her back.[4] During her recovery, she wrote songs that became part of the self-produced EP Some Lessons: The Bedroom Sessions.[11] Gardot was reluctant to record her songs at first, stating that they were too private for the public to hear, but relented and allowed her songs to be played on a Philadelphia radio station.[
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klinemj
Emo VIPs
Honorary Emofest Scribe
Posts: 14,746
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Post by klinemj on Jul 16, 2020 11:36:38 GMT -5
Pity - despite the measurer claiming so the frequency response is all over the place. he puts it down to room variation, but nevertheless, there are big peaks and dips throughout the Frequency range. The time alignment is also not that great as the tweeter sound arrives 135 ms after the woofer sound. This is an issue because Tekton's new patent is about creating a "time invariant phase coherent" sound. Maybe there's only so much one can do with these larger speakers. Thankfully the man is able to ameliorate this issue with DSP. I'm not sure if DSP is included with these speakers or not... They probably still sound pretty darn good if the Pendragon I heard is any indication. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the picture of the room in which they were measured. Mercy...a lot going on there. It always amazes me when people spend a lot of $ and the room is an acoustic mess. And, I wonder how the guy gets to all the stuff behind the gear w/o stepping on cables (they must be on lifters...). Mark
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Post by pedrocols on Jul 16, 2020 15:42:08 GMT -5
Pity - despite the measurer claiming so the frequency response is all over the place. he puts it down to room variation, but nevertheless, there are big peaks and dips throughout the Frequency range. The time alignment is also not that great as the tweeter sound arrives 135 ms after the woofer sound. This is an issue because Tekton's new patent is about creating a "time invariant phase coherent" sound. Maybe there's only so much one can do with these larger speakers. Thankfully the man is able to ameliorate this issue with DSP. I'm not sure if DSP is included with these speakers or not... They probably still sound pretty darn good if the Pendragon I heard is any indication. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the picture of the room in which they were measured. Mercy...a lot going on there. It always amazes me when people spend a lot of $ and the room is an acoustic mess. And, I wonder how the guy gets to all the stuff behind the gear w/o stepping on cables (they must be on lifters...). Mark When a person spends 10k on speakers I m sure they are not too concern about that kind of stuff you mentioned (It is all good because I am sure they are a bargain because they sound like 100k speakers 🤣🙄).
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