|
|
Post by hsamwel on Apr 11, 2022 17:55:54 GMT -5
Turned guest network off.. No difference! Also turned off Roaming assistant. But I already had the rest correctly set. Still no go. The Emotiva remote app is the ONLY thing that don’t work on my setup. I have really good connection and stability. All other remote control apps works fine. I guess the app would work fine just that the discovery doesn’t work. I would like to have a ”hardcoded” app that sends commands directly to my RMC-1. Without any discovery process. Just directly to the IP of RMC-1 in my LAN. But maybe I missunderstand how things work and this is impossible to do?! Actually don’t know why we need a discovery process? Especially if you have RMC-1 on the same LAN IP always as I have. |
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Apr 12, 2022 5:34:20 GMT -5
… Actually don’t know why we need a discovery process? Especially if you have RMC-1 on the same LAN IP always as I have. With discovery, people don’t need to know the details of their network, which many don’t. However in your case, a fallback method is needed. The Harmony Hub has such a fallback, if discovery fails, you can enter the address of the Hub. |
|
KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,273
Member is Online
|
Post by KeithL on Apr 13, 2022 9:57:55 GMT -5
It's a matter of DHCP...
Most home networks, as well as many commercial networks, use something called DHCP (dynamic host configuration protocol). All this means is that, in order to avoid conflicts, and make things simple, as each device is connected to the network, it "asks for an available address". The DHCP server, which is usually running on your router, gives each device an address, and keeps track of all of them.
And, in most cases, by default, addresses are handed out in some order, on a "first come - first served" basis. (Different routers will start handing out addresses at the top or bottom of the list... or in some other prearranged order.)
Because of this, when you reconnect a device to the network, after disconnecting it or turning it off, it may not always have the same IP address. Therefore it makes more sense to have an app or device use some sort of discovery process to find out the current address of something it wants to connect find.
In theory the Dirac Live software does allow you to enter the address manually...
But, since the software connects to the processor through the NIB, rather than directly, entering the IP address of the processor won't work for us.
NOTES: 1. There is a mechanism whereby a DHCP server will tend to assign the same address to a device that it has seen recently - but details will vary 2. Many routers can be configured to always assign the same address to a given device - recognized by its MAC address (This is perfectly OK to do... and, if your router offers this option, it will be in one of the configuration or administration menus.)
3. MANUALLY entering an IP address directly on a device, like a processor, is also possible - BUT IS NOT RECOMMENDED.
(While this may work IF DONE PROPERLY... if you do this, the router doesn't "know" you've assigned that address, and so may assign it to a second device.
If this happens you end up with what is known as an address conflict... which may cause strange network problems which can be very difficult to diagnose.)
In general the remote control and device must either be on the same network segment... Or on network segments where routing is available between them... (For example your WiFi router may use different network segments for wired and WiFi connections - but will automatically set up routing between them.) And, if there is such an option, it must allow FULL routing between them (and not block broadcasts or multicasts). (Some modern gear may block these by default because they can also be used by a hacker or malicious program to discover what's connected.)
In general the way traffic is assigned and routed in a modern network is incredibly complex... But MOST of that complexity is hidden from us - and handled automatically... But there is still a lot "going on underneath"...
For example a typical modern "cable modem" actually contains:
- a cable modem (probably DOCSIS 3) - a two port Internet edge router (which is itself pretty complicated - and includes Network Address Translation)
- a four port Ethernet switch - a WiFi router / access point (and the two-way radio circuitry that goes with that)
- a DHCP server - (and possibly a simple firewall)
Turned guest network off.. No difference! Also turned off Roaming assistant. But I already had the rest correctly set. Still no go. The Emotiva remote app is the ONLY thing that don’t work on my setup. I have really good connection and stability. All other remote control apps works fine. I guess the app would work fine just that the discovery doesn’t work. I would like to have a ”hardcoded” app that sends commands directly to my RMC-1. Without any discovery process. Just directly to the IP of RMC-1 in my LAN. But maybe I missunderstand how things work and this is impossible to do?! Actually don’t know why we need a discovery process? Especially if you have RMC-1 on the same LAN IP always as I have. |
|
|
|
Post by hsamwel on Apr 14, 2022 14:20:45 GMT -5
It's a matter of DHCP...
Most home networks, as well as many commercial networks, use something called DHCP (dynamic host configuration protocol). All this means is that, in order to avoid conflicts, and make things simple, as each device is connected to the network, it "asks for an available address". The DHCP server, which is usually running on your router, gives each device an address, and keeps track of all of them.
And, in most cases, by default, addresses are handed out in some order, on a "first come - first served" basis. (Different routers will start handing out addresses at the top or bottom of the list... or in some other prearranged order.)
Because of this, when you reconnect a device to the network, after disconnecting it or turning it off, it may not always have the same IP address. Therefore it makes more sense to have an app or device use some sort of discovery process to find out the current address of something it wants to connect find.
In theory the Dirac Live software does allow you to enter the address manually...
But, since the software connects to the processor through the NIB, rather than directly, entering the IP address of the processor won't work for us.
NOTES: 1. There is a mechanism whereby a DHCP server will tend to assign the same address to a device that it has seen recently - but details will vary 2. Many routers can be configured to always assign the same address to a given device - recognized by its MAC address (This is perfectly OK to do... and, if your router offers this option, it will be in one of the configuration or administration menus.)
3. MANUALLY entering an IP address directly on a device, like a processor, is also possible - BUT IS NOT RECOMMENDED.
(While this may work IF DONE PROPERLY... if you do this, the router doesn't "know" you've assigned that address, and so may assign it to a second device.
If this happens you end up with what is known as an address conflict... which may cause strange network problems which can be very difficult to diagnose.)
In general the remote control and device must either be on the same network segment... Or on network segments where routing is available between them... (For example your WiFi router may use different network segments for wired and WiFi connections - but will automatically set up routing between them.) And, if there is such an option, it must allow FULL routing between them (and not block broadcasts or multicasts). (Some modern gear may block these by default because they can also be used by a hacker or malicious program to discover what's connected.)
In general the way traffic is assigned and routed in a modern network is incredibly complex... But MOST of that complexity is hidden from us - and handled automatically... But there is still a lot "going on underneath"...
For example a typical modern "cable modem" actually contains:
- a cable modem (probably DOCSIS 3) - a two port Internet edge router (which is itself pretty complicated - and includes Network Address Translation)
- a four port Ethernet switch - a WiFi router / access point (and the two-way radio circuitry that goes with that)
- a DHCP server - (and possibly a simple firewall)
Turned guest network off.. No difference! Also turned off Roaming assistant. But I already had the rest correctly set. Still no go. The Emotiva remote app is the ONLY thing that don’t work on my setup. I have really good connection and stability. All other remote control apps works fine. I guess the app would work fine just that the discovery doesn’t work. I would like to have a ”hardcoded” app that sends commands directly to my RMC-1. Without any discovery process. Just directly to the IP of RMC-1 in my LAN. But maybe I missunderstand how things work and this is impossible to do?! Actually don’t know why we need a discovery process? Especially if you have RMC-1 on the same LAN IP always as I have. Thanks for your input Keith. But I have gone through all the with Mr Lesniak as you remember? * I have the DHCP server on. * I have all my devices configured to get the same IP addresses locked to each devices MAC address. * NO other device or software have EVER had any issues in my network. Not with discovery or anything really. * I have used ASUS routers about 15 years with the Merlin firmware the past years. * No fancy features are actived in the router. Actually almost bare bones setup other than the DHCP server. * Have tried with everything disconnected but RMC-1. Also with a full factory reset and original ASUS firmware. * The old Emotiva app worked flawlessly for me, every time including during heavy use. * I have tried every suggestion from Mr Lesniak and others. None have made any difference. * I have two switches and a second router (as a node).. As I wrote before, no difference if I remove these. * I get my internet from a cable modem. This is directly connected to my main router. * Don’t know how my router works in the backgroud but my setup is no different for wireless or wired. * No other device that uses multicasts or broadcasts seems to be ”blocked”. * I have NO issues with RMC-1, the black box or their internet/network connections. Dirac have never failed me. * I have an Apple iPad Pro 10.5” with the latest iPadOS. * RMC-1 is not setup with DHCP. I have it setup with static IP because I can. In my latest email with Mr Lesniak he suggested something like you said, the wireless not working on the same segment or same network. But wouldn’t I have issues with every control software then? Actually anything communicating from wireless to wired devices in my LAN? |
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,273
Member is Online
|
Post by KeithL on Apr 14, 2022 14:58:38 GMT -5
To be fair I included a lot of that detail as a matter of general information for everyone reading this thread.
In your particular case Mr Lesniak certainly knows more about how his app works than anyone else...
(I don't specifically know exactly how he does his discovery process... or why he chose to do it that particular way.) There are many different ways of doing that... so it could be that he has chosen to use a different one that the programs you have that work.
However, to address your last point, the answer is "not necessarily"... These days routing and switching between wired Ethernet networks and network segments are handled in a very standard way by most routers and switches. But WiFi in general, and connections between WiFi network segments and wired ones in particular, is not always handled quite as consistently. And, as I said, there is an incredible amount of complexity going on "behind the scenes" with networking in general... and even more with WiFi. And, because of this, there are LOTS of settings and options which you or I may not have access to on a particular router.
And this can include things like blocking specific types of broadcasts, or blocking broadcasts originating on a particular network segment...
There are many well-known denial-of-service attacks that are based on deliberately misusing various sorts of broadcasts...
And WiFi connections are ALWAYS viewed as being more at risk of "being hacked" than wired connections (because wired connections have "physical security" which WiFi connections do not). Therefore many routers and firewalls apply different and more restrictive security to WiFi connections than to wired connections.
When it comes to troubleshooting, there is a relatively common, and not unreasonable, generalization: If it works with a wired connection, but not with a wireless connection, then there's something odd or different about the WiFi connection... As I said, Mr Lesniak both wrote and supports the App, so he is the one who is in a position to know what it does and does not work with, and why. Since your RMC-1 works just fine with Dirac Live it is obviously having no problem connecting to the network. And, while I cannot say that it's impossible, I've never heard of the sort of fault that could cause the Ethernet port on one particular RMC-1 to not work with the remote control app. The only other suggestion I can think of would be that your iPad Pro COULD be blocking whatever protocol is used for the device discovery. This COULD occur differently depending on both the iPad/OS and the IPad hardware... (The iPad OS could be blocking a certain protocol, on that particular hardware, for some security-related reason... but that's just a wild guess.) At this point the only practical way to rule that out would be to see if it works on a different one...
It's a matter of DHCP... Most home networks, as well as many commercial networks, use something called DHCP (dynamic host configuration protocol). All this means is that, in order to avoid conflicts, and make things simple, as each device is connected to the network, it "asks for an available address". The DHCP server, which is usually running on your router, gives each device an address, and keeps track of all of them.
And, in most cases, by default, addresses are handed out in some order, on a "first come - first served" basis. (Different routers will start handing out addresses at the top or bottom of the list... or in some other prearranged order.)
Because of this, when you reconnect a device to the network, after disconnecting it or turning it off, it may not always have the same IP address. Therefore it makes more sense to have an app or device use some sort of discovery process to find out the current address of something it wants to connect find.
In theory the Dirac Live software does allow you to enter the address manually...
But, since the software connects to the processor through the NIB, rather than directly, entering the IP address of the processor won't work for us. NOTES: 1. There is a mechanism whereby a DHCP server will tend to assign the same address to a device that it has seen recently - but details will vary 2. Many routers can be configured to always assign the same address to a given device - recognized by its MAC address (This is perfectly OK to do... and, if your router offers this option, it will be in one of the configuration or administration menus.)
3. MANUALLY entering an IP address directly on a device, like a processor, is also possible - BUT IS NOT RECOMMENDED.
(While this may work IF DONE PROPERLY... if you do this, the router doesn't "know" you've assigned that address, and so may assign it to a second device.
If this happens you end up with what is known as an address conflict... which may cause strange network problems which can be very difficult to diagnose.)
In general the remote control and device must either be on the same network segment... Or on network segments where routing is available between them... (For example your WiFi router may use different network segments for wired and WiFi connections - but will automatically set up routing between them.) And, if there is such an option, it must allow FULL routing between them (and not block broadcasts or multicasts). (Some modern gear may block these by default because they can also be used by a hacker or malicious program to discover what's connected.)
In general the way traffic is assigned and routed in a modern network is incredibly complex... But MOST of that complexity is hidden from us - and handled automatically... But there is still a lot "going on underneath"... For example a typical modern "cable modem" actually contains:
- a cable modem (probably DOCSIS 3) - a two port Internet edge router (which is itself pretty complicated - and includes Network Address Translation)
- a four port Ethernet switch - a WiFi router / access point (and the two-way radio circuitry that goes with that)
- a DHCP server - (and possibly a simple firewall)
Thanks for your input Keith. But I have gone through all the with Mr Lesniak as you remember? * I have the DHCP server on. * I have all my devices configured to get the same IP addresses locked to each devices MAC address. * NO other device or software have EVER had any issues in my network. Not with discovery or anything really. * I have used ASUS routers about 15 years with the Merlin firmware the past years. * No fancy features are actived in the router. Actually almost bare bones setup other than the DHCP server. * Have tried with everything disconnected but RMC-1. Also with a full factory reset and original ASUS firmware. * The old Emotiva app worked flawlessly for me, every time including during heavy use. * I have tried every suggestion from Mr Lesniak and others. None have made any difference. * I have two switches and a second router (as a node).. As I wrote before, no difference if I remove these. * I get my internet from a cable modem. This is directly connected to my main router. * Don’t know how my router works in the backgroud but my setup is no different for wireless or wired. * No other device that uses multicasts or broadcasts seems to be ”blocked”. * I have NO issues with RMC-1, the black box or their internet/network connections. Dirac have never failed me. * I have an Apple iPad Pro 10.5” with the latest iPadOS. * RMC-1 is not setup with DHCP. I have it setup with static IP because I can. In my latest email with Mr Lesniak he suggested something like you said, the wireless not working on the same segment or same network. But wouldn’t I have issues with every control software then? Actually anything communicating from wireless to wired devices in my LAN? |
|
|
|
Post by hsamwel on Apr 17, 2022 12:52:29 GMT -5
To be fair I included a lot of that detail as a matter of general information for everyone reading this thread.
In your particular case Mr Lesniak certainly knows more about how his app works than anyone else...
(I don't specifically know exactly how he does his discovery process... or why he chose to do it that particular way.) There are many different ways of doing that... so it could be that he has chosen to use a different one that the programs you have that work.
However, to address your last point, the answer is "not necessarily"... These days routing and switching between wired Ethernet networks and network segments are handled in a very standard way by most routers and switches. But WiFi in general, and connections between WiFi network segments and wired ones in particular, is not always handled quite as consistently. And, as I said, there is an incredible amount of complexity going on "behind the scenes" with networking in general... and even more with WiFi. And, because of this, there are LOTS of settings and options which you or I may not have access to on a particular router.
And this can include things like blocking specific types of broadcasts, or blocking broadcasts originating on a particular network segment...
There are many well-known denial-of-service attacks that are based on deliberately misusing various sorts of broadcasts...
And WiFi connections are ALWAYS viewed as being more at risk of "being hacked" than wired connections (because wired connections have "physical security" which WiFi connections do not). Therefore many routers and firewalls apply different and more restrictive security to WiFi connections than to wired connections.
When it comes to troubleshooting, there is a relatively common, and not unreasonable, generalization: If it works with a wired connection, but not with a wireless connection, then there's something odd or different about the WiFi connection... As I said, Mr Lesniak both wrote and supports the App, so he is the one who is in a position to know what it does and does not work with, and why. Since your RMC-1 works just fine with Dirac Live it is obviously having no problem connecting to the network. And, while I cannot say that it's impossible, I've never heard of the sort of fault that could cause the Ethernet port on one particular RMC-1 to not work with the remote control app. The only other suggestion I can think of would be that your iPad Pro COULD be blocking whatever protocol is used for the device discovery. This COULD occur differently depending on both the iPad/OS and the IPad hardware... (The iPad OS could be blocking a certain protocol, on that particular hardware, for some security-related reason... but that's just a wild guess.) At this point the only practical way to rule that out would be to see if it works on a different one...
Thanks for your input Keith. But I have gone through all the with Mr Lesniak as you remember? * I have the DHCP server on. * I have all my devices configured to get the same IP addresses locked to each devices MAC address. * NO other device or software have EVER had any issues in my network. Not with discovery or anything really. * I have used ASUS routers about 15 years with the Merlin firmware the past years. * No fancy features are actived in the router. Actually almost bare bones setup other than the DHCP server. * Have tried with everything disconnected but RMC-1. Also with a full factory reset and original ASUS firmware. * The old Emotiva app worked flawlessly for me, every time including during heavy use. * I have tried every suggestion from Mr Lesniak and others. None have made any difference. * I have two switches and a second router (as a node).. As I wrote before, no difference if I remove these. * I get my internet from a cable modem. This is directly connected to my main router. * Don’t know how my router works in the backgroud but my setup is no different for wireless or wired. * No other device that uses multicasts or broadcasts seems to be ”blocked”. * I have NO issues with RMC-1, the black box or their internet/network connections. Dirac have never failed me. * I have an Apple iPad Pro 10.5” with the latest iPadOS. * RMC-1 is not setup with DHCP. I have it setup with static IP because I can. In my latest email with Mr Lesniak he suggested something like you said, the wireless not working on the same segment or same network. But wouldn’t I have issues with every control software then? Actually anything communicating from wireless to wired devices in my LAN? Again thanks for your input. I did suggest the iPad blocking to Mr Lesniak as well.. He also told me to try another device. I have tried with my iphone as well. This would suggest it being something in the network. But I’m not sure.. Mr Lesniak said he chose the UDP broadcasts instead of the usual multicast way of discovery because of a limitation in RMC-1. I don’t know how or what this was. Probably something in the underlying network code of the OS inside the processor. The hard thing with this troubleshooting is that everything just works, except this one app. There’s almost certainly not an issue with either my RMC-1 or the app. I just have to find out what’s blocking the UDP broadcasts from my iPad recieving the RMC-1 on the LAN. |
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Apr 17, 2022 15:22:02 GMT -5
To be fair I included a lot of that detail as a matter of general information for everyone reading this thread.
In your particular case Mr Lesniak certainly knows more about how his app works than anyone else...
(I don't specifically know exactly how he does his discovery process... or why he chose to do it that particular way.) There are many different ways of doing that... so it could be that he has chosen to use a different one that the programs you have that work.
However, to address your last point, the answer is "not necessarily"... These days routing and switching between wired Ethernet networks and network segments are handled in a very standard way by most routers and switches. But WiFi in general, and connections between WiFi network segments and wired ones in particular, is not always handled quite as consistently. And, as I said, there is an incredible amount of complexity going on "behind the scenes" with networking in general... and even more with WiFi. And, because of this, there are LOTS of settings and options which you or I may not have access to on a particular router.
And this can include things like blocking specific types of broadcasts, or blocking broadcasts originating on a particular network segment...
There are many well-known denial-of-service attacks that are based on deliberately misusing various sorts of broadcasts...
And WiFi connections are ALWAYS viewed as being more at risk of "being hacked" than wired connections (because wired connections have "physical security" which WiFi connections do not). Therefore many routers and firewalls apply different and more restrictive security to WiFi connections than to wired connections.
When it comes to troubleshooting, there is a relatively common, and not unreasonable, generalization: If it works with a wired connection, but not with a wireless connection, then there's something odd or different about the WiFi connection... As I said, Mr Lesniak both wrote and supports the App, so he is the one who is in a position to know what it does and does not work with, and why. Since your RMC-1 works just fine with Dirac Live it is obviously having no problem connecting to the network. And, while I cannot say that it's impossible, I've never heard of the sort of fault that could cause the Ethernet port on one particular RMC-1 to not work with the remote control app. The only other suggestion I can think of would be that your iPad Pro COULD be blocking whatever protocol is used for the device discovery. This COULD occur differently depending on both the iPad/OS and the IPad hardware... (The iPad OS could be blocking a certain protocol, on that particular hardware, for some security-related reason... but that's just a wild guess.) At this point the only practical way to rule that out would be to see if it works on a different one...
Again thanks for your input. I did suggest the iPad blocking to Mr Lesniak as well.. He also told me to try another device. I have tried with my iphone as well. This would suggest it being something in the network. But I’m not sure.. Mr Lesniak said he chose the UDP broadcasts instead of the usual multicast way of discovery because of a limitation in RMC-1. I don’t know how or what this was. Probably something in the underlying network code of the OS inside the processor. The hard thing with this troubleshooting is that everything just works, except this one app. There’s almost certainly not an issue with either my RMC-1 or the app. I just have to find out what’s blocking the UDP broadcasts from my iPad recieving the RMC-1 on the LAN. I currently use an iPad Pro 11G2, and have also used a G1, with the V3 App, with iPadOS 13, 14, &15 … also iPhone 10 and 13 Pro with the same iOS, and finally use the iPadOS App on my M1 based MacBook Pro 14 … I doubt the device is the problem. Your issue must be frustrating. |
|
|
|
Post by hsamwel on Apr 18, 2022 8:29:28 GMT -5
Again thanks for your input. I did suggest the iPad blocking to Mr Lesniak as well.. He also told me to try another device. I have tried with my iphone as well. This would suggest it being something in the network. But I’m not sure.. Mr Lesniak said he chose the UDP broadcasts instead of the usual multicast way of discovery because of a limitation in RMC-1. I don’t know how or what this was. Probably something in the underlying network code of the OS inside the processor. The hard thing with this troubleshooting is that everything just works, except this one app. There’s almost certainly not an issue with either my RMC-1 or the app. I just have to find out what’s blocking the UDP broadcasts from my iPad recieving the RMC-1 on the LAN. I currently use an iPad Pro 11G2, and have also used a G1, with the V3 App, with iPadOS 13, 14, &15 … also iPhone 10 and 13 Pro with the same iOS, and finally use the iPadOS App on my M1 based MacBook Pro 14 … I doubt the device is the problem. You’re issue must be frustrating. It sure is.. The strange thing is that I have tried a factory reset router with the original ASUS firmware.. So I actually don’t know what could be blocking the discovery. Others are using ASUS and have this working and I have had this issue with three ASUS routers. This would actually rule out an ASUS/Merlin bug in the firmware. Also a setting of mine. Don’t know with the ipad. I have no way of testing if the ipad is sending out the UDP broadcasts at all or they become blocked inside the router. What I know is that the UDP broadcasts are not listed in the Active Connections system log in the router. Other UDP connections from my ipad are though. Mr Lesniak even did a special version of the app to me that could enter the IP of RMC-1. Still wouldn’t find it. But I think he didn’t make it so it directly connected to the IP. It simply pointed to the IP and made a broadcast to it. I searched the internet about this issue. It seems there has been some issues like mine from iOS devices before. It seems how the discovery is coded is very important. Especially regarding UDP broadcasts. |
|
|
|
Post by hsamwel on Apr 18, 2022 8:35:15 GMT -5
A couple of questions for all here..
What IP do you have your router setup to?
Mine is 192.168.1.1. All my devices use 192.168.1.10 to 192.168.1.44 in the LAN.
Is there anyone else here using that IP for the router?
|
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,273
Member is Online
|
Post by KeithL on Apr 18, 2022 11:03:52 GMT -5
Most routers use the first address by default (which is x.x.x.1) so that shouldn't be a problem.
Note that we're REALLY getting into obscure stuff here....
1.
I suppose it's possible that your processor is specifically failing to respond only to UDP broadcasts. This is literally something we've never even heard of happening but nothing is impossible.
2. "Plain old dumb switches" and similar devices should pass UDP with no problem. However it's possible that one might fail to do so... either because of a hardware problem... or because of some sort of security option. (Blocking various types of broadcasts is sometimes done for security reasons and you cannot always count on a "dumb switch" being "entirely dumb".)
3. It is possible that something else on your network is "interfering" with the broadcast by responding to it. For example some other device could be responding to it in some way which confuses the app. (It's not impossible that some other device, or even a management interface on a switch, or on another router, or on a computer, might do so.)
The easiest way to rule out those last two would be to quite literally disconnect EVERYTHING ELSE from the router except the processor and the phone. This includes temporarily disabling things like TV sets and Blu-Ray players that use a WiFi connection to get updates.
If it works then you can try reconnecting devices one at a time to find the one responsible... Then you can figure out how to stop it...
A couple of questions for all here.. What IP do you have your router setup to? Mine is 192.168.1.1. All my devices use 192.168.1.10 to 192.168.1.44 in the LAN. Is there anyone else here using that IP for the router? |
|
|
|
Post by hsamwel on Apr 18, 2022 14:51:54 GMT -5
Most routers use the first address by default (which is x.x.x.1) so that shouldn't be a problem.
Note that we're REALLY getting into obscure stuff here....
1.
I suppose it's possible that your processor is specifically failing to respond only to UDP broadcasts. This is literally something we've never even heard of happening but nothing is impossible.
2. "Plain old dumb switches" and similar devices should pass UDP with no problem. However it's possible that one might fail to do so... either because of a hardware problem... or because of some sort of security option. (Blocking various types of broadcasts is sometimes done for security reasons and you cannot always count on a "dumb switch" being "entirely dumb".)
3. It is possible that something else on your network is "interfering" with the broadcast by responding to it. For example some other device could be responding to it in some way which confuses the app. (It's not impossible that some other device, or even a management interface on a switch, or on another router, or on a computer, might do so.)
The easiest way to rule out those last two would be to quite literally disconnect EVERYTHING ELSE from the router except the processor and the phone. This includes temporarily disabling things like TV sets and Blu-Ray players that use a WiFi connection to get updates.
If it works then you can try reconnecting devices one at a time to find the one responsible... Then you can figure out how to stop it...
A couple of questions for all here.. What IP do you have your router setup to? Mine is 192.168.1.1. All my devices use 192.168.1.10 to 192.168.1.44 in the LAN. Is there anyone else here using that IP for the router? I have already tested with only RMC-1 connected tothe router, even disconnecting the two switches and second AP router. No go.. Even with three different ASUS routers. You said, however unlikely, that it could be my RMC-1 simply not answering to the UDP broadcasts. Is there a way this could be tested? |
|
|
|
Post by dhiru79 on Apr 18, 2022 15:10:26 GMT -5
![]() anyone noticed, Dirac preset on The Official Emotiva Remote App v3 (Mac). is there any difference? Preset 1 Preset 2 Dirac Attachments:
|
|
ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,162
Member is Online
|
Post by ttocs on Apr 18, 2022 17:08:52 GMT -5
![]() anyone noticed, Dirac preset on The Official Emotiva Remote App v3 (Mac). is there any difference? Preset 1 Preset 2 Dirac Yes. When only one Dirac Slot is occupied and it's in Preset 2, and when the current Preset is Preset 1, and I click Dirac, it just gets the processor to switch to Preset 2 but User is still the chosen EQ Slot. So I'm not sure how it's supposed to operate. Another issue: One can select Reference Stereo directly, even when there are no Large Channels setup in the system. So I'm also not sure why this is. These things are only visible when I use my MacBook Pro Air, but not my iPhones. I haven't tried my really old iPad. |
|
|
|
Post by dhiru79 on Apr 18, 2022 18:35:23 GMT -5
![]() anyone noticed, Dirac preset on The Official Emotiva Remote App v3 (Mac). is there any difference? Preset 1 Preset 2 Dirac Yes. When only one Dirac Slot is occupied and it's in Preset 2, and when the current Preset is Preset 1, and I click Dirac, it just gets the processor to switch to Preset 2 but User is still the chosen EQ Slot. So I'm not sure how it's supposed to operate. Another issue: One can select Reference Stereo directly, even when there are no Large Channels setup in the system. So I'm also not sure why this is. These things are only visible when I use my MacBook Pro Air, but not my iPhones. I haven't tried my really old iPad. I also noticed, by clicking Dirac Preset on Macbook air app, it switched to Preset 2, but on Preset 1, i have dirac EQ Slot and sub levels raised, so even by clicking Dirac Preset, even though it switching to Preset 2, i could notice the raised sub levels of which i don't have it raised on Preset 2. So i am not sure how it's working.
|
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,273
Member is Online
|
Post by KeithL on Apr 19, 2022 9:20:51 GMT -5
I got a bit more detailed information here.
According to Mr Lesniak the Dirac NIB and the Remote Control App do their discovery the same way. Therefore, if your RMC-1 is working with Dirac, then that confirms that it is working properly and is able to communicate via UDP.
This points to the idea that either your iPad, or your router, is not passing the discovery packets. As to why other remote control apps work... they may do things a bit differently... or IOS may even be treating them differently.
Again note that it's not unusual for routers to block UPD broadcasts as being "a security risk"... and, as such, they may choose to block certain packets, or packets to or from certain ports. It wouldn't be surprising if the "Merlin" firmware has some such security features built-in... in which case it would work the same on all routers running that firmware.
Likewise it wouldn't surprise me if IOS does something similar... IOS may even have an actual "white list" of apps it recognizes... and block broadcasts from apps that aren't on that list (Apple is sort of known for doing stuff like that in general.)
Anyway, since your RMC-1 works with Dirac Live, that rules out the idea that it is the RMC-1 that is refusing to respond. (That's just as well because testing UDP is rather complicated... and, at this point, wouldn't tell us anything.)
Unfortunately, at this point, it looks like there's just something specific to your routers and IOS that isn't going to work with the Remote Control app.
Most routers use the first address by default (which is x.x.x.1) so that shouldn't be a problem. Note that we're REALLY getting into obscure stuff here.... 1.
I suppose it's possible that your processor is specifically failing to respond only to UDP broadcasts. This is literally something we've never even heard of happening but nothing is impossible. 2. "Plain old dumb switches" and similar devices should pass UDP with no problem. However it's possible that one might fail to do so... either because of a hardware problem... or because of some sort of security option. (Blocking various types of broadcasts is sometimes done for security reasons and you cannot always count on a "dumb switch" being "entirely dumb".) 3. It is possible that something else on your network is "interfering" with the broadcast by responding to it. For example some other device could be responding to it in some way which confuses the app. (It's not impossible that some other device, or even a management interface on a switch, or on another router, or on a computer, might do so.)
The easiest way to rule out those last two would be to quite literally disconnect EVERYTHING ELSE from the router except the processor and the phone. This includes temporarily disabling things like TV sets and Blu-Ray players that use a WiFi connection to get updates.
If it works then you can try reconnecting devices one at a time to find the one responsible... Then you can figure out how to stop it...
I have already tested with only RMC-1 connected tothe router, even disconnecting the two switches and second AP router. No go.. Even with three different ASUS routers. You said, however unlikely, that it could be my RMC-1 simply not answering to the UDP broadcasts. Is there a way this could be tested? |
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,273
Member is Online
|
Post by KeithL on Apr 19, 2022 9:24:37 GMT -5
The Remote Control app works with both the XMC-1 and our newer processors...
The XMC-1 had three Speaker Presets: Preset 1, Preset 2, and Dirac. On the newer processors there are only two Speaker Presets: Preset 1 and Preset 2 (and the Dirac filters are choices "inside" each preset).
Therefore, with the newer processors, I would consider the Dirac preset to be "undefined"
(which is a nice way of saying that I don't know exactly what it would do so I probably wouldn't use it).
Yes. When only one Dirac Slot is occupied and it's in Preset 2, and when the current Preset is Preset 1, and I click Dirac, it just gets the processor to switch to Preset 2 but User is still the chosen EQ Slot. So I'm not sure how it's supposed to operate. Another issue: One can select Reference Stereo directly, even when there are no Large Channels setup in the system. So I'm also not sure why this is. These things are only visible when I use my MacBook Pro Air, but not my iPhones. I haven't tried my really old iPad. I also noticed, by clicking Dirac Preset on Macbook air app, it switched to Preset 2, but on Preset 1, i have dirac EQ Slot and sub levels raised, so even by clicking Dirac Preset, even though it switching to Preset 2, i could notice the raised sub levels of which i don't have it raised on Preset 2. So i am not sure how it's working.
|
|
|
|
Post by hsamwel on Apr 19, 2022 14:23:55 GMT -5
I got a bit more detailed information here.
According to Mr Lesniak the Dirac NIB and the Remote Control App do their discovery the same way. Therefore, if your RMC-1 is working with Dirac, then that confirms that it is working properly and is able to communicate via UDP.
This points to the idea that either your iPad, or your router, is not passing the discovery packets. As to why other remote control apps work... they may do things a bit differently... or IOS may even be treating them differently.
Again note that it's not unusual for routers to block UPD broadcasts as being "a security risk"... and, as such, they may choose to block certain packets, or packets to or from certain ports. It wouldn't be surprising if the "Merlin" firmware has some such security features built-in... in which case it would work the same on all routers running that firmware.
Likewise it wouldn't surprise me if IOS does something similar... IOS may even have an actual "white list" of apps it recognizes... and block broadcasts from apps that aren't on that list (Apple is sort of known for doing stuff like that in general.)
Anyway, since your RMC-1 works with Dirac Live, that rules out the idea that it is the RMC-1 that is refusing to respond. (That's just as well because testing UDP is rather complicated... and, at this point, wouldn't tell us anything.)
Unfortunately, at this point, it looks like there's just something specific to your routers and IOS that isn't going to work with the Remote Control app.
I have already tested with only RMC-1 connected tothe router, even disconnecting the two switches and second AP router. No go.. Even with three different ASUS routers. You said, however unlikely, that it could be my RMC-1 simply not answering to the UDP broadcasts. Is there a way this could be tested? Yes, this is pretty much what Mr Lesniak told me as well. But I have not setup my iPad in any special way. Others have their iPads working.. How could Apple block some iPads and not others? I have run a test with stock firmware even factory reseted. So the improved and bugfixed Merlin firmware can’t be the reason either. It seems my router has no problems with UDP broadcasts on wired to wired (Dirac remote) connections. However seems (I think) to block it somehow when doing wireless to wired. Mr Lesniak thought it could be that my wireless wasn’t on the same subnet or something. But then all my multicasts would fail. I have several control apps that discover and work just fine. I read that UDP broadcasts can be tricky on Apple devices. If you don’t do the appropriate code it can fail. Thanks for putting in the time anyway. |
|
|
|
Post by hsamwel on Apr 19, 2022 14:27:30 GMT -5
The Remote Control app works with both the XMC-1 and our newer processors...
The XMC-1 had three Speaker Presets: Preset 1, Preset 2, and Dirac. On the newer processors there are only two Speaker Presets: Preset 1 and Preset 2 (and the Dirac filters are choices "inside" each preset).
Therefore, with the newer processors, I would consider the Dirac preset to be "undefined"
(which is a nice way of saying that I don't know exactly what it would do so I probably wouldn't use it).
I also noticed, by clicking Dirac Preset on Macbook air app, it switched to Preset 2, but on Preset 1, i have dirac EQ Slot and sub levels raised, so even by clicking Dirac Preset, even though it switching to Preset 2, i could notice the raised sub levels of which i don't have it raised on Preset 2. So i am not sure how it's working.
But shouldn’t the app sense the typ of processor and change the available buttons on screen? This sounds so very amateurish to have the app behave this way.. Don’t you think? |
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,273
Member is Online
|
Post by KeithL on Apr 19, 2022 16:15:31 GMT -5
Unfortunately it is not at all unlikely that there may be small differences between your iPad and other similar ones. For example, even different units of the same model may use different network chips, which could result in the operating system acting differently. And, for that matter, units that have been updated to the same O/S version may act differently, depending on what previous O/S versions they were updated from.
And the same is true for routers as well. And it is not in the least surprising that either may act very differently with WiFi connections than with a wired connection.
(Not only are the WiFi protocols themselves very different... but WiFi is considered to be more of a security risk... and so is often subject to extra "restrictions".)
You also need to understand that there are many different types of "broadcasts" and "multicasts". So it's not that unusual for a certain piece of hardware to work with some and not others. And, unfortunately, Apple is somewhat known for proprietary not-quite-standard solutions. I am told that, in broad terms, their WiFi support is "pretty standard"... but that doesn't rule out the possibility of minor exceptions. Not to be mean... but UDP broadcasts are pretty widely used... and there is a standard... so, if Apple "has trouble with them", then that's on them.
I got a bit more detailed information here. According to Mr Lesniak the Dirac NIB and the Remote Control App do their discovery the same way. Therefore, if your RMC-1 is working with Dirac, then that confirms that it is working properly and is able to communicate via UDP. This points to the idea that either your iPad, or your router, is not passing the discovery packets. As to why other remote control apps work... they may do things a bit differently... or IOS may even be treating them differently.
Again note that it's not unusual for routers to block UPD broadcasts as being "a security risk"... and, as such, they may choose to block certain packets, or packets to or from certain ports. It wouldn't be surprising if the "Merlin" firmware has some such security features built-in... in which case it would work the same on all routers running that firmware.
Likewise it wouldn't surprise me if IOS does something similar... IOS may even have an actual "white list" of apps it recognizes... and block broadcasts from apps that aren't on that list (Apple is sort of known for doing stuff like that in general.) Anyway, since your RMC-1 works with Dirac Live, that rules out the idea that it is the RMC-1 that is refusing to respond. (That's just as well because testing UDP is rather complicated... and, at this point, wouldn't tell us anything.)
Unfortunately, at this point, it looks like there's just something specific to your routers and IOS that isn't going to work with the Remote Control app.
Yes, this is pretty much what Mr Lesniak told me as well. But I have not setup my iPad in any special way. Others have their iPads working.. How could Apple block some iPads and not others? I have run a test with stock firmware even factory reseted. So the improved and bugfixed Merlin firmware can’t be the reason either. It seems my router has no problems with UDP broadcasts on wired to wired (Dirac remote) connections. However seems (I think) to block it somehow when doing wireless to wired. Mr Lesniak thought it could be that my wireless wasn’t on the same subnet or something. But then all my multicasts would fail. I have several control apps that discover and work just fine. I read that UDP broadcasts can be tricky on Apple devices. If you don’t do the appropriate code it can fail. Thanks for putting in the time anyway. |
|
|
|
Post by novisnick on Apr 23, 2022 2:47:00 GMT -5
My app doesn’t work either. I’ve tried numerous methods of connecting but to no avail. Last resort, I’ll try uninstalling the app and reinstalling.
|
|
