KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 29, 2021 12:46:43 GMT -5
In programming and logical terms you propose an interesting paradox.
One of the purposes of the TPM chip is to be able to ensure a secure boot system. Part of this is essentially the assurance that your encrypted drive will only work when installed on your computer which contains your TPM chip.
This means that, in principle, if Windows 11 "uses all of the security options", you will not be able to run it on a virtual machine. (And, if the system can be "emulated", or "tricked", into allowing that drive to work on a different computer, then it isn't very secure.)
In other words, if Microsoft is determined to "make Windows 11 totally secure".... Part of that will probably mean that you cannot run it on a virtual machine at all.... Hopefully they'll let you turn that part off... but their requirement for a TPM chip does make one wonder.
(And there's no specific reason I can think of why they would want for you to be able to run Windows 11 on their competitor's hardware.) ("Just buy a nice new Windows 11 compatible device and you're problems will be over.") (Of course, if Apple wasn't Apple, they could just start including the TPM chip in their devices, along with or instead of their own proprietary security chip.)
… However many older computers will not... (There is at least one requirement that most older machines will not meet... the presence of "a hardware TPM module".) It has been suggested that this is one reason for the new number... Since my only Windows installation is a 10 VM running under Parallels Desktop on my Mac mini, my first concern would be when they support 11. However, given the current information, it appears that may be the only way to run Windows 11 on Mac hardware, presumably they could emulate the TPM. Do Macs have a TPM chip?
Windows 11 on Macs
Apple has never offered support for the TPM 2.0 standard on Intel Macs, which makes them all incompatible with the newest version of Windows.9to5mac.com/2021/06/25/windows-11-wont-be-officially-supported-by-any-intel-mac-heres-why/ |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jun 29, 2021 12:50:10 GMT -5
Right now, Win 11 will not run on an Intel-based Mac. I am certain that will change.
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Post by monkumonku on Jun 29, 2021 14:48:59 GMT -5
After having run Windows based PC’s since my first 286-based machine, I finally switched to a Mac Mini a couple of months ago and am very pleased. I have no desire to return to a Windows environment. The Mac Mini just works like it should, nice and fast. And less intrusive tha Windows, too.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 29, 2021 18:45:23 GMT -5
After having run Windows based PC’s since my first 286-based machine, I finally switched to a Mac Mini a couple of months ago and am very pleased. I have no desire to return to a Windows environment. The Mac Mini just works like it should, nice and fast. And less intrusive tha Windows, too. I agree, and have had Macs since they were a thing. But I used Windows extensively in my career, and became enamored with one program (remember when we called them programs?). Visio, it first appeared on a 3.5” floppy disc that they gave away at the DOS 6 presentation. In those days Microsoft would rent a venue (Sacramento Community Center Theatre for me), and make a closed circuit video presentation, I remember DOS 5 & 6, maybe a early Windows as well — usually Bill Gates and some engineer would banter and demo. The disc they gave out had a program like the one DYohn mentioned, you’d run it on your PC to see if you were ready for DOS 6! Along with it came Visio 1.0 (and Microsoft didn’t own it at the time). I started using it right away and got very good at it, I designed networks, and made elaborate presentations, eventually I designed my house with it. So I’ve used it over 25 years and love it, I have an extensive library of drawings I need to access, there’s no macOS equivalent, so a Windows VM under macOS does the job for that one ‘App’. |
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Post by monkumonku on Jun 29, 2021 19:35:30 GMT -5
After having run Windows based PC’s since my first 286-based machine, I finally switched to a Mac Mini a couple of months ago and am very pleased. I have no desire to return to a Windows environment. The Mac Mini just works like it should, nice and fast. And less intrusive tha Windows, too. I agree, and have had Macs since they were a thing. But I used Windows extensively in my career, and became enamored with one program (remember when we called them programs?). Visio, it first appeared on a 3.5” floppy disc that they gave away at the DOS 6 presentation. In those days Microsoft would rent a venue (Sacramento Community Center Theatre for me), and make a closed circuit video presentation, I remember DOS 5 & 6, maybe a early Windows as well — usually Bill Gates and some engineer would banter and demo. The disc they gave out had a program like the one DYohn mentioned, you’d run it on your PC to see if you were ready for DOS 6! Along with it came Visio 1.0 (and Microsoft didn’t own it at the time). I started using it right away and got very good at it, I designed networks, and made elaborate presentations, eventually I designed my house with it. So I’ve used it over 25 years and love it, I have an extensive library of drawings I need to access, there’s no macOS equivalent, so a Windows VM under macOS does the job for that one ‘App’. Hey, I still call them "programs!"  I used Lotus 1-2-3 extensively, at least while they were still in business before Microsoft did them in. |
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Post by rbk123 on Jun 29, 2021 20:28:28 GMT -5
My worry is that I have a Musiland Digital Times This is a discontinued product. The windows 10 driver is not available and I was only able to get it by a lot of digging on sites in a foreign language. If Windows 11 breaks the old driver, then I would have trouble You have more than a few years before you have to switch, so plenty of time to see what the lay of the land is and read on the Internet what other owners of that card are doing. Eventually stuff like that which manufacturers stop supporting require you to keep an old beater-PC around on the version of OS that it still works on, while you have a different PC for everything else. Not ideal but that's been the case for decades. My guess is that in a couple of years you'll want to upgrade that card anyways and will just use Win11 to justify it. It will all work out in the end. |
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Post by repeetavx on Jun 29, 2021 21:17:17 GMT -5
If you want to know if your PC has a TPM chip and if it is enabled, run " tpm.msc " from the command line. Yep, it brought the information page right up. Thanks! |
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Jun 29, 2021 23:09:15 GMT -5
Let check the pattern in Microsoft OSs. While I remember Windows 1.0 and have found memories of Windows 3.1, Windows NT and even windows for workgroups, Win 95 is where it started. I won't even mention Microsoft Bob and windows 97 was really another patch for 95. So lets start at XP/2000. XP/2000 - good Vista - bad Windows 7 - good Windows 8/8.1 - bad Windows 10 - good Windows 11 -  ?  ...oh and having TPM as mandatory is actually a good thing from a security standpoint. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 29, 2021 23:36:52 GMT -5
…Eventually stuff like that which manufacturers stop supporting require you to keep an old beater-PC around on the version of OS that it still works on,… My old beater will be a VM 🙂 |
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Dreamer
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Klaatu Barada Nikto!
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Post by Dreamer on Jun 30, 2021 0:10:42 GMT -5
Microsoft wants users to be staggered, I have ported over to 11 already.
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Post by rbk123 on Jun 30, 2021 7:49:36 GMT -5
…Eventually stuff like that which manufacturers stop supporting require you to keep an old beater-PC around on the version of OS that it still works on,… My old beater will be a VM 🙂 Yep - works great for old software, but usually troublesome for old hardware. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 30, 2021 10:07:12 GMT -5
My old beater will be a VM 🙂 Yep - works great for old software, but usually troublesome for old hardware. My old beater used to be a VW! 🚗 |
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Post by vcautokid on Jun 30, 2021 10:18:31 GMT -5
2 things I care about. Stability and stability. This is my work computer. May do my laptop first to see.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 30, 2021 10:24:06 GMT -5
My old beater will be a VM 🙂 Yep - works great for old software, but usually troublesome for old hardware. Eventually what happens with software is that you must stop upgrading the App. In my case I’ve kept current with Visio from 1.0 to now 2019, I’ve taken advantage of many newer features and conveniences over the years. However, Visio 2019 requires Windows 10, I expect it will also work with Windows 11, but a future version, say Visio 2022, will likely require Windows 11. If I’m unable to run a Windows 11 VM under macOS, then I will be ‘stuck’ at Visio 2019. |
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Post by rbk123 on Jun 30, 2021 11:15:02 GMT -5
Yep - works great for old software, but usually troublesome for old hardware. Eventually what happens with software is that you must stop upgrading the App. In my case I’ve kept current with Visio from 1.0 to now 2019, I’ve taken advantage of many newer features and conveniences over the years. However, Visio 2019 requires Windows 10, I expect it will also work with Windows 11, but a future version, say Visio 2022, will likely require Windows 11. If I’m unable to run a Windows 11 VM under macOS, then I will be ‘stuck’ at Visio 2019. Agree. I was just referring to Garbulky's issue is a card (hardware) vs. an app (in your case). VM's are great for old software that won't run on newer versions of Windows, but usually won't help Gar in his hardware situation. |
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Post by DavidR on Jun 30, 2021 13:01:18 GMT -5
Didn't they say that Windows 10 was going to be the last upgrade? CORRECT |
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Post by 405x5 on Jun 30, 2021 13:01:46 GMT -5
2 things I care about. Stability and stability. This is my work computer. May do my laptop first to see. A new operating system is a great way to upset BOTH of those things (gee I hope not)! |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 30, 2021 13:49:57 GMT -5
Didn't they say that Windows 10 was going to be the last upgrade? Actually they said "the last Version". We could debate whether that means 10 or 11, or if 10.x can be considered an upgrade, but not a new version. In any case 11 is on the way and by either definition their original statement is wrong in my book. As it was actually said by a Microsoft Employee, and was not an official press release as such, I don't think anyone is too surprised we're where we are. That said, Windows 10 is now about 6 years old, and will probably be closer to 7 before mass adoption, that's not really young in OS terms. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that in that time, changes in hardware, peripherals, networking, UI preferences, App development, and most importantly security and stability, might benefit from changes at the core ... or maybe it's just good for business (which making all of those things better would do). Another possibility, similar to some of their Office packages (and just about everything else these days!), is that Windows 11 might only be available by subscription, and that 10 would continue with limited support as a non-subscription alternative. Comments on the 'Last Version' www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-version-of-windowsA Business World Take on 11 www.cnbc.com/2021/06/11/why-microsoft-is-releasing-a-new-version-of-windows.html |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 30, 2021 15:15:00 GMT -5
I would simply chalk it up to "new and improved syndrome". At some point all manufacturers seem to feel obligated to come out with a "new and improved version" (whether it's software, or cars, or laundry detergent.) This is presumably because the public becomes convinced that technology must have improved... So they need to come up with a new model or be perceived as having fallen behind their competitor's new model... Windows 10 has simply been around so long that now it's considered "old"... So there has to be a "new and improved version"... (And "the fall 2020 h2 update" just doesn't roll off the tongue properly at all.)
Personally, while I'm quite pleased with the improvements in display and video capabilities on recent computers... I find the obsession with "pretty colors" and "rounded corners" to be just plain silly... The idea that people's ineptitude regarding security can be cured with a new chip to be optimistic at best... And the idea of being pushed to fulfill all my software needs from an "App Store" to be both optimistic and offensive... (The fact that Apple thinks that their customers are too stupid to actually choose their own software always offended me.)
(And, since Apple and Android are touting new security chips this year, I guess Microsoft has to jump on that bandwagon.)
(And you'll notice that the latest version of Firefox now also sports rounded corners and prettier colors.)
Didn't they say that Windows 10 was going to be the last upgrade? Actually they said "the last Version". We could debate whether that means 10 or 11, or if 10.x can be considered an upgrade, but not a new version. In any case 11 is on the way and by either definition their original statement is wrong in my book. As it was actually said by a Microsoft Employee, and was not an official press release as such, I don't think anyone is too surprised we're where we are. That said, Windows 10 is now about 6 years old, and will probably be closer to 7 before mass adoption, that's not really young in OS terms. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me that in that time, changes in hardware, peripherals, networking, UI preferences, App development, and most importantly security and stability, might benefit from changes at the core ... or maybe it's just good for business (which making all of those things better would do). Another possibility, similar to some of their Office packages (and just about everything else these days!), is that Windows 11 might only be available by subscription, and that 10 would continue with limited support as a non-subscription alternative. Comments on the 'Last Version' www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-version-of-windowsA Business World Take on 11 www.cnbc.com/2021/06/11/why-microsoft-is-releasing-a-new-version-of-windows.html |
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Post by 405x5 on Jun 30, 2021 16:29:58 GMT -5
I want to enjoy ☺️ life without agonizing over operating systems. To that end, I run cost effective computers 💻 for Apple 🍎 and Windows and run the latest version both can tolerate until their done. Next step…..DUMPSTER and I move on. (let somebody else worry about it.) I never think about switching to “ either or”…..just negate the jobs to whichever gets it done most intuitively.
Top priority: What’s for dinner (and dessert 🧁)
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