DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jul 1, 2021 15:36:01 GMT -5
That's the catch... Recent HP printers automatically report when they're low on ink... And you can configure them to automatically order more ink when they run low... But you can only do that through the HP store... You can't pick ma different store... It's just fine for Apple fans that an iPhone can share pictures with an iPad... And my Samsung Android phone can automatically download pictures to my Microsoft Windows account...
But, until they're willing to talk to each other, we will not have a "it all just works" world... And, until then, if you want the benefits of all the stuff that "just works" ... You're going to have to sacrifice being able to use all the stuff your stuff doesn't work with...
Actually all newer vehicles tell you when to change the oil and the life left on it. I wouldn’t like to my car go by itself and be at the mercy of the dealership prices without shopping around. And... you don't have to use those automated features either. It's up to the user. As it should be.  |
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Post by garbulky on Jul 1, 2021 15:42:44 GMT -5
That's the catch... Recent HP printers automatically report when they're low on ink... And you can configure them to automatically order more ink when they run low... But you can only do that through the HP store... You can't pick ma different store... It's just fine for Apple fans that an iPhone can share pictures with an iPad... And my Samsung Android phone can automatically download pictures to my Microsoft Windows account...
But, until they're willing to talk to each other, we will not have a "it all just works" world... And, until then, if you want the benefits of all the stuff that "just works" ... You're going to have to sacrifice being able to use all the stuff your stuff doesn't work with...
Actually all newer vehicles tell you when to change the oil and the life left on it. I wouldn’t like to my car go by itself and be at the mercy of the dealership prices without shopping around. Even worse the HP laser printers have a chip in it. So you can't just refill the cartridge or use an OEM. You need to fiddle around with the chip if you want to do that and often it still pops up a warning. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jul 1, 2021 15:49:51 GMT -5
I definitely sympathize there... But I'm not sure I entirely agree...
A car is a complex gadget... and you actually need to pass a test and get a license to be allowed to drive one. I'm not so sure I think it's unreasonable to require people who want to drive one to learn a little basic maintenance as well.
And, let,s take your idea to the limit... My new 2025 Tesla can actually drive itself to the service station... Except, when it needs a recharge, it ALWAYS drives itself to a Tesla fill-up station... I'm not allowed to have it go to a closer station owned by a different company... Or to another competitor who charges half as much for each fill-up...
And, if my local Tesla station closes, I might end up having my car go fifty miles every time it need a recharge...
To me, this is the world that Apple envisions, and that is NOT somewhere I want to be... I don't need training wheels on my bike... And I most certainly don't need an App Store to tell me what programs I'm allowed to run...
Obviously a lot of this comes down to expectations... When I was growing up a computer was a powerful all purpose computing device that could run all sorts of useful software... If you wanted a simple little box to add numbers you bought a pocket calculator... And, if you wanted a typewriter, with a spellchecker, and the ability to save documents, you bought a wordprocessor...
A computer did more, and was more powerful, but was also more difficult to learn and use...
Nowadays people want a simple little box, that does all sorts of complex stuff, in exactly the way that they personally prefer it to be done... And I suspect that some of those desires may just be mutually exclusive.
For example, I wouldn't mind being able to say "Alexa, get my dinner".... But I really hope that, if I say "Alexa, burn down my house" that it isn't quite so responsive...
And I'm really not so sure I trust a machine to know the difference.
I'm sorry, but maybe some of those nice folks who find typing in their address to be confusing really would be better off with a plain old dial telephone... And a human being, on the end of a plain old phone line, to type it in FOR them... And perhaps a typewriter for typing letters (or an old wordprocessor with little pictures of a printer, a floppy disc, and a trash can on a few buttons).
And letting them even HAVE a credit card probably isn't a great idea either...
I believe that some things are moving too fast...
And I'm not convinced that technology alone can make it all work...
I'm inclined to agree there... but only up to a point. Yes, if you are unwilling to expend the effort to learn how things work, Apple's products are more likely to work for you more of the time. But I disagree that this is necessarily a good way for things to be.
I'm relatively comfortable not knowing all of the inner details of how my car works. But it would be a problem if I didn't know enough to know that the oil needs to be changed occasionally. And it would be a real problem if I didn't realize that the gas tank needs to be refilled pretty often. I don't doubt that someday cars will inform us directly when they need that oil change... And, someday, my car may even schedule the appointment for me when it's due...
But it's going to be a while before my car can actually drive itself to the shop... And longer before I trust my car with my credit card number it would need to pay for that oil change...
The problem is that today there is a lot of technology that ends up being in this sort of limbo... For example, if you think that "cell phones just work", then you're going to have a problem when you try to make a call in an area with no coverage... And, if you think that "WiFi just works", you're destined to be very perplexed when you discover that your music always has dropouts when you're in that one corner of the basement... And, likewise, "automatic cloud backup" is really neat... but, if it stops working, and you're too clueless to understand the error messages, then you're going to have problems. (That "restore my system from the cloud" button is great... until you push it and find out the most recent backup occurred the day you bought the computer.)
And, if your IPad stops working on a Friday night, and you don't understand how it works, you'd better hope that "the Apple genius" answers support calls on weekends... Yes, you can survive not knowing those details...
And you probably won't die because you didn't realize that your cell phone can't reach 911 from the bottom of a mine shaft... But I think we're still a long way from its being a good idea to "just trust our tech"... Referring to a Windows computer Garbulky says: "Oh my goodness, you'll have to figure out all these new things to do just to make it work the way you want it to." My reply to that is: "But at least, after I learn all those things, it will be POSSIBLE to make it work the way I want it to." And, with Windows, there are a zillion ways in which I can at least attempt to do so.
In contrast, with that iPad, I probably won't be ABLE to change the way it works, even if I AM willing to put in the effort. (It reminds me of some early Ford models - which you could reportedly "get in any color you wanted - as long as you wanted black.")
I 100% agree that tech isn't at the point where you can just straight up trust it. But what that means is people don't learn to use it. Instead, they just stay confused, likely avoid using the system, or make repeated mistakes. At my work, my main job involves teaching people how to read the words on the screen and follow the instruction. Like "look at the screen, read the very obvious instructions. Press the appropriate button" is a very foreign concept. And this is the majority of people. Even though computers might have been around all or the majority of most of their lives, they are very bad at this. So for instance, there was a lady that couldn't tell the difference between wifi, the internet and her phone. My co-worker who's worked alongside me for over 15 years (and used a computer everyday) can't tell the difference between Microsoft Windows, an internet browser, his email, and his main work software. Like if I point to the windows log in screen and ask him what is this? his answer will be he doesn't know. I help people do job applications. They ask me what to do on every step. So for instance "What do I do now?" Type in your name. "OMG THIS IS WAY TOO HARD. WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE SO HARD?" They will continue the rant for a few minutes until they get to the next field "Put in your address" "WHAT?!?!?!" My other co-worker puts in a URL into a work catalog because she thinks that is google because she relates to a textbox. This person has a master's degree. The other one will sit down and type in the middle of a word document filled with work and be surprised when I ask her what she's doing. Another one had her flashlight on for days on her phone. I asked her whether she wanted to turn it off and she acted surprised that you could. These people also have master's degrees. This is not unusual. This is the majority of computer users. They are just so so unprepared for even the most basic obvious tasks on systems. This is what Apple is trying to solve for. Now having said that, I totally disagree with you about the car. See you SHOULDNT have to know that you have to change the oil. Or that the gas tank should be refilled. That's why electric cars are nice. Especially when they come with self-plugin systems. You dont have to change the oil. Some of the charges automatically plug in when you arrive at home. Eventually teslas are "supposed" to drive themselves to the service depot. Your credit card is on file with the app - which allegedly allows toddlers to accidentally purchase a 10k self-driving package. But still... that's the idea. A tech company should make it where people shouldn't have to work around the limitations of systems. It should just do what they want it to do. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jul 1, 2021 15:52:50 GMT -5
So far.....
Every year it gets harder and harder to set up a Windows computer without creating an account first... (I know at least one person who was totally unable to figure out how to dodge the signup...)
And, no matter how many things I turn off, my Android phone always manages to slip a few notifications through... I do wonder how long it will take for printers to require an ink subscription. (And to me that is not a happy thought.)
That's the catch... Recent HP printers automatically report when they're low on ink... And you can configure them to automatically order more ink when they run low... But you can only do that through the HP store... You can't pick ma different store... It's just fine for Apple fans that an iPhone can share pictures with an iPad... And my Samsung Android phone can automatically download pictures to my Microsoft Windows account...
But, until they're willing to talk to each other, we will not have a "it all just works" world... And, until then, if you want the benefits of all the stuff that "just works" ... You're going to have to sacrifice being able to use all the stuff your stuff doesn't work with...
And... you don't have to use those automated featers either. It's up to the user. As it should be. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jul 1, 2021 15:53:51 GMT -5
Yes.... luckily "it's for our own good"...  That's the catch... Recent HP printers automatically report when they're low on ink... And you can configure them to automatically order more ink when they run low... But you can only do that through the HP store... You can't pick ma different store... It's just fine for Apple fans that an iPhone can share pictures with an iPad... And my Samsung Android phone can automatically download pictures to my Microsoft Windows account...
But, until they're willing to talk to each other, we will not have a "it all just works" world... And, until then, if you want the benefits of all the stuff that "just works" ... You're going to have to sacrifice being able to use all the stuff your stuff doesn't work with...
Even worse the HP laser printers have a chip in it. So you can't just refill the cartridge or use an OEM. You need to fiddle around with the chip if you want to do that and often it still pops up a warning. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jul 1, 2021 16:06:15 GMT -5
So far..... Every year it gets harder and harder to set up a Windows computer without creating an account first... (I know at least one person who was totally unable to figure out how to dodge the signup...)
And, no matter how many things I turn off, my Android phone always manages to slip a few notifications through... I do wonder how long it will take for printers to require an ink subscription. (And to me that is not a happy thought.)
And... you don't have to use those automated featers either. It's up to the user. As it should be. You shall be assimilated. Seriously though, I compeltely understand where you're coming from and I share your frustration with the auto-signup business model. But it will soon be the only way to participate in the world I fear. Maybe Emotiva can create something similar. Make the eventual RMC-2 require an internet connection and auto-upgrade with a registered credit card. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 1, 2021 16:08:17 GMT -5
… I do wonder how long it will take for printers to require an ink subscription. (And to me that is not a happy thought.) Subscriptions are coming from every direction, it seems the model that business has settled on to try any ensure a steady stream of income. Fortunately I very rarely need to print, and my winter home doesn’t even have a printer. I forced a change in a sports club I’m in, each year they used to require you to print and fill out the membership form, then write a check and mail them both in. I don’t have a printer or a checkbook (and envelopes and stamps may be in short supply as well). Treasurer after treasurer would make some silly procedure for me to pay until one got fed up and created an online payment. Hmmm, next season they’ll probably have a subscription 😧 |
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Post by rbk123 on Jul 1, 2021 16:10:14 GMT -5
Is it more relevant though? Definitely more relevant. I know young people with less than high school educations that are infinitely more tech savvy than older generation with multiple degrees. Education level rarely translates/correlates to hands on skills. |
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Post by garbulky on Jul 1, 2021 17:26:57 GMT -5
Is it more relevant though? Definitely more relevant. I know young people with less than high school educations that are infinitely more tech savvy than older generation with multiple degrees. Education level rarely translates/correlates to hands on skills. What if their degree is "information science"?  |
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Post by SteveH on Jul 1, 2021 17:30:11 GMT -5
Windows 11 is still several months away from release - so this is all "provisional" at this point anyway. The TPM is a security chip... which ties in with the current obsession with security on computers... which is undoubtedly why Windows 11 will require it.
Apparently the TPM has been around for a few years - but it's been pretty much optional in most situations.
(And, apparently, quite a few computers probably have a TPM - but it's switched off in the BIOS configuration - in which case it won't show up until you switch it on.) Here's an article that spells out all the details about TPM (although remember that Windows 11 isn't final yet - so EVERYTHING about it is provisional).
If you want to know if your PC has a TPM chip and if it is enabled, run " tpm.msc " from the command line. Thanks DYohn, usually Murphy's Law is the law I have to abide by, but this time I am good! |
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Post by rbk123 on Jul 1, 2021 21:07:32 GMT -5
Definitely more relevant. I know young people with less than high school educations that are infinitely more tech savvy than older generation with multiple degrees. Education level rarely translates/correlates to hands on skills. What if their degree is "information science"? Then you would have pointed it out. We know how you think...  |
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Post by garbulky on Jul 1, 2021 23:54:03 GMT -5
What if their degree is "information science"? . ^^^ I could tell you some stories... and you wouldn't believe me! |
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Post by rbk123 on Jul 2, 2021 8:14:56 GMT -5
Then you would have pointed it out. ^^^ I could tell you some stories... and you wouldn't believe me! Oh I would, as I work in IT. But the ones you've already told were excellent - keep them coming. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jul 2, 2021 9:19:11 GMT -5
I HATE HOW THEIR UPDATES CHANGE MY PERSONAL SETTINGS. Totally out of bounds. And what is the need to continually change the frickin' little icons. How much smaller and obscure can they make them. Zero continuity from product to product. This is 1 major wish-for that I have. There's a setting for file sharing support that I need set a certain way to me to access the hard drive that's connected to my router via my MS Surface. Occasionally, the updates revert the setting to the base setting for Windows...which cuts off my access to the hard drive! I have learned that if I can't access it and the power is clearly on to the router and HD, I check the setting, put it on the appropriate setting, and it's fixed. But, I should not have to do that! Other than that, I have loved Windows 10 and hope Windows 11 is at least as stable and user-friendly. Mark |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 2, 2021 13:27:34 GMT -5
… Other than that, I have loved Windows 10 and hope Windows 11 is at least as stable and user-friendly…. I like 10 as well, certainly my favorite and most stable Windows so far. Here’s an article about the differences between 10 and 11, though it reads like more of a what’s new. There are several macOS like ‘looks’ and an interesting feature similarity. If you have one of the newest M1 based Macs (what they call Apple Silicon), along with macOS 11 (Big Sur), you can now run iOS/iPhone Apps on your Mac, which I think is kinda cool (though I don’t yet have an M1 Mac). With Windows 11 you’ll be able to run Android based Apps under Windows, also cool. www.cnet.com/how-to/windows-11-vs-windows-10-every-big-difference |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jul 2, 2021 14:46:53 GMT -5
With Windows 11 you’ll be able to run Android based Apps under Windows, also cool. I love this. I have a few apps on my Android that I love, including Weatherbug that I can't use on my Windows 10 machines. So, having those native on them will be great. Most of the other stuff is kind of "meh...whatever" for me. I do look forward to seeing what the improved MS Teams is like, though. Teams is not my favorite for virtual meetings, but if it's better...who knows? Mark |
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Post by DavidR on Jul 2, 2021 15:20:00 GMT -5
How much more electronics to spy on us?
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Post by 405x5 on Jul 2, 2021 15:22:32 GMT -5
I'm inclined to agree there... but only up to a point. Yes, if you are unwilling to expend the effort to learn how things work, Apple's products are more likely to work for you more of the time. But I disagree that this is necessarily a good way for things to be.
I'm relatively comfortable not knowing all of the inner details of how my car works. But it would be a problem if I didn't know enough to know that the oil needs to be changed occasionally. And it would be a real problem if I didn't realize that the gas tank needs to be refilled pretty often. I don't doubt that someday cars will inform us directly when they need that oil change... And, someday, my car may even schedule the appointment for me when it's due...
But it's going to be a while before my car can actually drive itself to the shop... And longer before I trust my car with my credit card number it would need to pay for that oil change...
The problem is that today there is a lot of technology that ends up being in this sort of limbo... For example, if you think that "cell phones just work", then you're going to have a problem when you try to make a call in an area with no coverage... And, if you think that "WiFi just works", you're destined to be very perplexed when you discover that your music always has dropouts when you're in that one corner of the basement... And, likewise, "automatic cloud backup" is really neat... but, if it stops working, and you're too clueless to understand the error messages, then you're going to have problems. (That "restore my system from the cloud" button is great... until you push it and find out the most recent backup occurred the day you bought the computer.)
And, if your IPad stops working on a Friday night, and you don't understand how it works, you'd better hope that "the Apple genius" answers support calls on weekends... Yes, you can survive not knowing those details...
And you probably won't die because you didn't realize that your cell phone can't reach 911 from the bottom of a mine shaft... But I think we're still a long way from its being a good idea to "just trust our tech"... Referring to a Windows computer Garbulky says: "Oh my goodness, you'll have to figure out all these new things to do just to make it work the way you want it to." My reply to that is: "But at least, after I learn all those things, it will be POSSIBLE to make it work the way I want it to." And, with Windows, there are a zillion ways in which I can at least attempt to do so.
In contrast, with that iPad, I probably won't be ABLE to change the way it works, even if I AM willing to put in the effort. (It reminds me of some early Ford models - which you could reportedly "get in any color you wanted - as long as you wanted black.")
I 100% agree that tech isn't at the point where you can just straight up trust it. But what that means is people don't learn to use it. Instead, they just stay confused, likely avoid using the system, or make repeated mistakes. At my work, my main job involves teaching people how to read the words on the screen and follow the instruction. Like "look at the screen, read the very obvious instructions. Press the appropriate button" is a very foreign concept. And this is the majority of people. Even though computers might have been around all or the majority of most of their lives, they are very bad at this. So for instance, there was a lady that couldn't tell the difference between wifi, the internet and her phone. My co-worker who's worked alongside me for over 15 years (and used a computer everyday) can't tell the difference between Microsoft Windows, an internet browser, his email, and his main work software. Like if I point to the windows log in screen and ask him what is this? his answer will be he doesn't know. I help people do job applications. They ask me what to do on every step. So for instance "What do I do now?" Type in your name. "OMG THIS IS WAY TOO HARD. WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE SO HARD?" They will continue the rant for a few minutes until they get to the next field "Put in your address" "WHAT?!?!?!" My other co-worker puts in a URL into a work catalog because she thinks that is google because she relates to a textbox. This person has a master's degree. The other one will sit down and type in the middle of a word document filled with work and be surprised when I ask her what she's doing. Another one had her flashlight on for days on her phone. I asked her whether she wanted to turn it off and she acted surprised that you could. These people also have master's degrees. This is not unusual. This is the majority of computer users. They are just so so unprepared for even the most basic obvious tasks on systems. This is what Apple is trying to solve for. Now having said that, I totally disagree with you about the car. See you SHOULDNT have to know that you have to change the oil. Or that the gas tank should be refilled. That's why electric cars are nice. Especially when they come with self-plugin systems. You dont have to change the oil. Some of the charges automatically plug in when you arrive at home. Eventually teslas are "supposed" to drive themselves to the service depot. Your credit card is on file with the app - which allegedly allows toddlers to accidentally purchase a 10k self-driving package. But still... that's the idea. A tech company should make it where people shouldn't have to work around the limitations of systems. It should just do what they want it to do. One car manned the other unmanned. When they crash I’ll enjoy watching how the lawsuits pan out while eating popcorn 🍿 |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jul 2, 2021 17:39:12 GMT -5
How much more electronics to spy on us? As much as it takes. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jul 3, 2021 15:36:20 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing this. 1 of 3 we used is now checked and good. Need to check the others (and likely just need to ditch a 4th...nobody uses it any more and it needs a lot of updates). Mark |
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