Windows 11 — Announced

[housetech]

Who remember using 8 baud telephone handset modems? Try to get data from our field office to home office was painfully slow, then add dropouts.
1st PC owned- Acer 333MHz w W95, omg the nightmares.
Then read about & tried Linux- bigger nightmares, needed to be a programmer.
1st Mac- Power G4, 1.25GHz single core. Used it until they quit OS 10.5(?) CPU updates. Malware & viruses made me switch to Apple.
I hate MS, Had every OS version except Vista, Must admit Win 10 is pretty good. I bought ($300) Win XP (Longhorn) the first day it came out, what a nightmare for a couple years. It seemed upgrades always crashed the install. Another day or two wasted.
For years Win OS was a must in business because most companies wrote Apps that were Windoz only. Never understood why corp-America put up with the malware problems, Unix could have been improved. (see linux)
Today, I dual boot Linux Mint & Win10 on AMD Ryzen 5 system
If Win 11 is free- maybe, if not Linux full time.

[MusicHead]

Jun 30, 2021 16:33:09 GMT -5 housetech said:

Who remember using 8 baud telephone handset modems? Try to get data from our field office to home office was painfully slow, then add dropouts.
1st PC owned- Acer 333MHz w W95, omg the nightmares.
Then read about & tried Linux- bigger nightmares, needed to be a programmer.
1st Mac- Power G4, 1.25GHz single core. Used it until they quit OS 10.5(?) CPU updates. Malware & viruses made me switch to Apple.
I hate MS, Had every OS version except Vista, Must admit Win 10 is pretty good. I bought ($300) Win XP (Longhorn) the first day it came out, what a nightmare for a couple years. It seemed upgrades always crashed the install. Another day or two wasted.
For years Win OS was a must in business because most companies wrote Apps that were Windoz only. Never understood why corp-America put up with the malware problems, Unix could have been improved. (see linux)
Today, I dual boot Linux Mint & Win10 on AMD Ryzen 5 system
If Win 11 is free- maybe, if not Linux full time.

Dual booting Linux and Windows is always good insurance. At least you know that no matter how bad MS screw up you will have a functional machine...

Over the last 20 or so years I have used a bazillion Linux distributions and a few years ago I settled on Linux Mint as well. Very stable and nicely polished.

[DavidR]

I HATE HOW THEIR UPDATES CHANGE MY PERSONAL SETTINGS. Totally out of bounds. And what is the need to continually change the frickin' little icons. How much smaller and obscure can they make them. Zero continuity from product to product.

[DYohn]

No need to turn this into a Windows bashing session. It is what it is and if people don't like it they are free to use another OS. Windows (and every other OS) upgrades are inevitable, they often cause problems, sure, but that is just part of a computer-user's life.

As part of the hardware production chain I say bring it on (and the more hardware it breaks or the more it drives hardware upgrades and expansions the better for my company's stock price.)

[vcautokid]

I have to disagree with Keith that customers are too stupid. Far from it. Mac or PC, the common thread here is expectations and experience and workflow and entertainment and output. Simple as that. Honesty is way more important than choice. If you have not set the above in their proper place, intelligent or not, the wrong result is achieved. I am not going to waste my time on partisanship one OS or the other. Really a stupid discussion. The right one is the one along with applications that get you there. Ignorance happens all the time. Doesn’t make people stupid. Those who just buy blindly without satisfying the above metrics will constantly be unhappy. You can get done with it all. I am getting a MAC mini just for video editing. That is all. All fully configured and ready to go. I don’t abandoned what already is working for me. For record it is Android, IOS, Windows, and soon again MAC OS. It’s a toolbox folks. Use the right tool for the job. Be informed and learn and be honest with yourself. I talk everyday to people with blind or unclear expectations. Doesn’t make them stupid, makes them workable and ones that can be assisted. Easy as that.

[KeithL]

I don't exactly disagree - although I do believe that Apple does sometimes take advantage of their customer's ignorance.

(For example, the fact that for years Apple requested submissions to iTunes be in 24/96k, even though they only offered that same music in LOSSY AAC format to their customers.)

Let me rephrase that original statement more tactfully to say: 

"Apple tends to attract the sort of customers who PREFER to remain ignorant about the inner workings of their computer".

"And this can sometimes limit your options.. or even lead to problems."

In contrast, Microsoft expects you to put more effort into learning about their product, and doesn't seem to have much sympathy if you don't.

Apple's computers do seem to work quite well... as long as you're satisfied with the choice of software offered on their somewhat limited menu... and don't mind paying significantly more.

Their software menu does include the majority of "mainstream applications" that a lot of users actually use. 

So, as long as that menu satisfies your needs, then Apple they may be an excellent solution for you.

And one major benefit is that you can be pretty well assured that most of those "Apple approved" programs will actually work pretty well.

The catch really only becomes apparent when you need - or just want - a program that isn't on Apple's restricted menu. 

(And, yes, because of the extra restrictions and hoops that they make you jump through, lots of small developers, and a few big ones, don't bother to create Apple versions of their programs.)

I should also point out, however, that a lot of the limitations and expectations people have are "self imposed" or "self created" or even "self imagined"...

I'll explain what I mean...

Here at Emotiva we have a mix of Apple and Windows desktop computers.

And, yes, quite a few times we've had APPLE computers stop working (sometimes after a "routine update")...

And they ended up having to have the operating system reinstalled from scratch...

No big deal... and to be expected from a desktop computer.

But don't imagine that it doesn't happen.

And, thanks to Apple's "one button cloud backup" and whatnot it wasn't such a big deal.

However, when the same thing happens to a Windows computer, it tends to be a bigger problem...

But the real reason is NOT that Windows is especially difficult to restore or reinstall...

(It takes about the same amount of time to reinstall the operating system on an Apple or Windows computer.)

The real problem is that Windows doesn't include the same sort of "just push a button and we'll back everything up for you" option...

And, for various reasons, not all Windows programs store their data in the same location (and it isn't always obvious where they do store it).

The bottom line is that, when something does go wrong, most Windows users DON'T have their data properly backed up.

(So, instead of "just reinstalling Windows", they end up in a mad scramble to "find and save all their important photos and data".)

And, to be quite honest, Linux isn't always dead simple to set up either, and it sometimes breaks too...

But the average Linux user probably installed it him or her self...

And probably configured where things are stored and located...

So it simply isn't that big a deal for them to reinstall it if and when something goes wrong.

(In case you didn't know, the down-side of Linux is that MOST mainstream programs are NOT available for Linux.

This means that you're probably going to have to settle for using a lot of "alternatives"....

Many of which are pretty good, and most of which are free, but they aren't the same.)

The best advice at the moment is... DON'T WORRY ABOUT WINDOWS 11.

If all the programs you're running now run just fine on Windows 10 then I guess you won't have to upgrade to Windows 11...

And, if next year your favorite program gets an update, and at that point it ONLY runs on Windows 11, then I guess you WILL have to upgrade...

But, either way, you won't have much choice, and there's not much point in agonizing over the situation...

(And, if you buy a Windows computer a few years from now, it's GOING TO have Windows 11 on it... do you really doubt that?)

And, yes, if the program you want to use only runs on an Apple computer, then I guess you'll have to get one of those instead...

(And, if you buy one of those, it's GOING TO have the current version of Apple's O/S on it.)

As vcautokid said... the computer is a toolbox... or perhaps just a tool...

It's really just not that big a deal...

Jul 1, 2021 5:53:43 GMT -5 vcautokid said:

I have to disagree with Keith that customers are too stupid. Far from it. Mac or PC, the common thread here is expectations and experience and workflow and entertainment and output. Simple as that. Honesty is way more important than choice. If you have not set the above in their proper place, intelligent or not, the wrong result is achieved. I am not going to waste my time on partisanship one OS or the other. Really a stupid discussion. The right one is the one along with applications that get you there. Ignorance happens all the time. Doesn’t make people stupid. Those who just buy blindly without satisfying the above metrics will constantly be unhappy. You can get done with it all. I am getting a MAC mini just for video editing. That is all. All fully configured and ready to go. I don’t abandoned what already is working for me. For record it is Android, IOS, Windows, and soon again MAC OS. It’s a toolbox folks. Use the right tool for the job. Be informed and learn and be honest with yourself. I talk everyday to people with blind or unclear expectations. Doesn’t make them stupid, makes them workable and ones that can be assisted. Easy as that.

[rbk123]

Jul 1, 2021 10:03:31 GMT -5 KeithL said:

"Apple tends to attract the sort of customers who PREFER to remain ignorant about the inner workings of their computer".

Pretty sure this is 98.5% of computer users out there.  Apple makes a better product in this regard for them, but they also have attained a "status" in the marketplace as well.

[garbulky]

Jul 1, 2021 10:21:09 GMT -5 rbk123 said:

Jul 1, 2021 10:03:31 GMT -5 KeithL said:

"Apple tends to attract the sort of customers who PREFER to remain ignorant about the inner workings of their computer".

Pretty sure this is 98.5% of computer users out there.  Apple makes a better product in this regard for them, but they also have attained a "status" in the marketplace as well.

This. Also AudioHTIT in this case I'm not referrring to the power users. I'm talking about the vast majority of regular apple AND windows users which are just regular people that aren't tech savvy.
Most apple users don't think they want to remain ignorant. It just doesn't cross their minds. I think their thought process is - it does what I want it for AND it fits in their life in some sort of convenient manner. Other than thinking it's expensive, I don't think most give further thought to it. So when a new ipad comes out and it has LIDAR, that probably means nothing for somebody like my dad. But he might purchase it simply because it's the latest version when he wants to buy it.
If you think about it, that really IS how technology should work. It should fulfil your needs and you shouldn't have to worry about the insides or how to make it work just because it offers something new and cutting edge.

Compare that to using something new and cutting edge on a PC. Oh my goodness, you'll have to figure out all these new things to do just to make it work the way you want it to. Etc.
If anything there's been two main failures of Apple.
1. People have to worry about buying a case. Just ridiculous. This means they have to shop for a case. Find out what's the best case that won't break. Match the size etc.

2. The airtags - don't have a way to actually use them UNTIL you shop for a companion keychain or sticky.

3. Ocassionally people still have to remember their apple ID.

[AudioHTIT]

KeithL , I wish you could make some of your good points without categorizing people, because it’s not necessary and at times just plain wrong. This thread is in the technology area and for discussing an upcoming operating system, we don’t need a lesson or advice, or be told if we choose one way it means we don’t care about this or that. I’m an Apple guy but also use Windows and used to use Linux, there are places for all of them, and each helps the other get better. I’m not ‘worried’ about whether I’ll be able to run 11, but I like technology and am interested in discussing it, this thread (like many others) doesn’t have an answer.

[KeithL]

I don't know about 98.5% - but certainly a majority.

And that's fine... but only as long as it works for them.

I know how to change a tire on my car...

However it's been a long time since I remembered how to start a car by sticking a pencil in the carburetor when it was flooded...

But I do have a reliable cell phone... and I keep my premium AAA membership paid up...

But I wouldn't even consider offroading, someplace without cell phone coverage, if I didn't know how to fix the vehicle I was driving if it quit.

And I wonder how many people realize that their OnStar emergency service won't work in areas without cell phone coverage.

(I picture a variation of a popular old cartoon... a fancy SUV, sitting in the desert, half buried in the sand, with a dried up skeleton in the driver's seat... who's STILL waiting for OnStar to show up.)

As you say... for many people that solution works...

And, if your Apple computer crashes, odds are that one-button backup will save your butt (or your precious pictures)...

And not that many people are in the 1% for whom it fails.

HOWEVER, it's still a good idea to know where your files are, and to have an actual backup... just in case.

(it would be interesting to know how many Apple users "have never lost an important file or picture due to a hardware problem")

For a lot of people I know the deal breaker is simply Apple's higher prices... or the fact that they're just plain familiar with Windows.

The deal breaker for me with Apple is the fact that a LOT of the software I care about won't run on them...

And, since I already know a LOT about Windows, I simply have no reason to consider switching...

(For a lot of people the price tag is also a deal-breaker... but I could have had a nice Apple box for what I spent on my last Windows computer.)

Jul 1, 2021 10:21:09 GMT -5 rbk123 said:

Jul 1, 2021 10:03:31 GMT -5 KeithL said:

"Apple tends to attract the sort of customers who PREFER to remain ignorant about the inner workings of their computer".

Pretty sure this is 98.5% of computer users out there.  Apple makes a better product in this regard for them, but they also have attained a "status" in the marketplace as well.

[DYohn]

And I'd argue that there is a huge percentage of Windows users who think they know more than they do about how their computer is supposed to work and this causes many problems as well. This is why WIndows has, over the years, become more and more closed - to prevent the ignorant from tinkering with things they shouldn't tinker with.

-edit - I also think the vast majority of all computer users, no matter what OS they use, just want the damn thing to work. They really don't care how it works, they just want to use it.

[monkumonku]

Jul 1, 2021 10:21:09 GMT -5 rbk123 said:

Jul 1, 2021 10:03:31 GMT -5 KeithL said:

"Apple tends to attract the sort of customers who PREFER to remain ignorant about the inner workings of their computer".

Pretty sure this is 98.5% of computer users out there.  Apple makes a better product in this regard for them, but they also have attained a "status" in the marketplace as well.

I just switched from a Windows-based PC to a Mac Mini and love it. In the past I assembled my own PC's so I do know about the innards but the bottom line is I just want the device to reliably do what it is supposed to do and I could care less about the inner workings.

Actually I have sort of the same philosophy about audio gear. While I am familiar with what goes into the components, I really don't care about what something is made of or what its specs are as much as I care about how it sounds and if it is reliable.

[cawgijoe]

I use a Windows PC at work and I have a Macbook Air at home. I used to buy PC's for home use but became extremely frustrated with problems surfacing all the time. Windows crashing...slow boot up times....cheapness of the hardware. Granted, I'm talking $600 laptops. So, last year I decided it's time to spend some extra cash and go the Apple route. Best decision I ever made. My 2020 Macbook Air is well built (aluminum chassis), boots up quickly, is fast, and so far has not crashed or failed me for any reason. It has a high end feel to it and just works.

I understand the other side though, because my wife has an Engineering background and prefers PC's so she can "tinker". However as DYohn mentioned, it's becoming more closed as time goes by and I've heard some grumbling....

[AudioHTIT]

Jul 1, 2021 10:39:20 GMT -5 garbulky said:

If anything there's been two main failures of Apple.
1. People have to worry about buying a case. Just ridiculous. This means they have to shop for a case. Find out what's the best case that won't break. Match the size etc.

2. The airtags - don't have a way to actually use them UNTIL you shop for a companion keychain or sticky.

3. Ocassionally people still have to remember their apple ID.

I'll assume you added a 3rd, should I wait for a 4th? 😁 This is definitely OT, but I guess we're going there.

1. Buy a case for what? Not a Mac? An iPhone? Don't Android users have to buy cases too?
I do actually have two cases for my iPhone, one that I use regularly, and one I put on when I'm traveling so I can fit the phone in the little dash cubby where I've added a wireless charger (the regular case gives me more protection, but is slightly too big).

2. YES! We just bought four AirTags to compare them to Tiles we've been using for years. It's ridiculous they couldn't include a small hole for 'minimal' attachment, we bought the cheap Belken 'attacher thingies', which work fine on my keys, but are too big for my wallet (the thin Tile wins hand's down for use with a wallet, though I prefer the 'Find My' technology).

3) I'm not sure that is valid in these days of accounts and passwords, I'd be lost without a password keeper. Actually just yesterday my Windows 10 VM complained that I wasn't logged in to my Microsoft account, so not just an Apple thing.

4 -- 100) I think those are tame compared to the real complaints about Apple; proprietary technologies and standards, like no FLAC support in iTunes, damn Lightning connector on iPhone (time for USB-C like iPad Pro). Hardware that's difficult or impossible to upgrade (though I've done it when it can be done), no exclusive mode in macOS Music App! I won't go on, but I've lived it for 40 years. The trade off however is hardware form factors that are amazing, leading edge technologies, software integration that can't be touched by any other 'consumer' ecosystem (I"m sure I raise some hackles there, but I live it and believe it), and very secure systems.

Nobody's perfect ...

[KeithL]

I'm inclined to agree there... but only up to a point.

Yes, if you are unwilling to expend the effort to learn how things work, Apple's products are more likely to work for you more of the time.

But I disagree that this is necessarily a good way for things to be.

I'm relatively comfortable not knowing all of the inner details of how my car works.

But it would be a problem if I didn't know enough to know that the oil needs to be changed occasionally.

And it would be a real problem if I didn't realize that the gas tank needs to be refilled pretty often.

I don't doubt that someday cars will inform us directly when they need that oil change...

And, someday, my car may even schedule the appointment for me when it's due...

But it's going to be a while before my car can actually drive itself to the shop...

And longer before I trust my car with my credit card number it would need to pay for that oil change...

The problem is that today there is a lot of technology that ends up being in this sort of limbo...

For example, if you think that "cell phones just work", then you're going to have a problem when you try to make a call in an area with no coverage...

And, if you think that "WiFi just works", you're destined to be very perplexed when you discover that your music always has dropouts when you're in that one corner of the basement...

And, likewise, "automatic cloud backup" is really neat... but, if it stops working, and you're too clueless to understand the error messages, then you're going to have problems.

(That "restore my system from the cloud" button is great... until you push it and find out the most recent backup occurred the day you bought the computer.)

And, if your IPad stops working on a Friday night, and you don't understand how it works, you'd better hope that "the Apple genius" answers support calls on weekends...

Yes, you can survive not knowing those details...

And you probably won't die because you didn't realize that your cell phone can't reach 911 from the bottom of a mine shaft...

But I think we're still a long way from its being a good idea to "just trust our tech"...

Referring to a Windows computer Garbulky says: "Oh my goodness, you'll have to figure out all these new things to do just to make it work the way you want it to."

My reply to that is: "But at least, after I learn all those things, it will be POSSIBLE to make it work the way I want it to."

And, with Windows, there are a zillion ways in which I can at least attempt to do so.

In contrast, with that iPad, I probably won't be ABLE to change the way it works, even if I AM willing to put in the effort.

(It reminds me of some early Ford models - which you could reportedly "get in any color you wanted - as long as you wanted black.")

Jul 1, 2021 10:39:20 GMT -5 garbulky said:

Jul 1, 2021 10:21:09 GMT -5 rbk123 said:

Pretty sure this is 98.5% of computer users out there.  Apple makes a better product in this regard for them, but they also have attained a "status" in the marketplace as well.

This. Also AudioHTIT in this case I'm not referrring to the power users. I'm talking about the vast majority of regular apple AND windows users which are just regular people that aren't tech savvy.
Most apple users don't think they want to remain ignorant. It just doesn't cross their minds. I think their thought process is - it does what I want it for AND it fits in their life in some sort of convenient manner. Other than thinking it's expensive, I don't think most give further thought to it. So when a new ipad comes out and it has LIDAR, that probably means nothing for somebody like my dad. But he might purchase it simply because it's the latest version when he wants to buy it.
If you think about it, that really IS how technology should work. It should fulfil your needs and you shouldn't have to worry about the insides or how to make it work just because it offers something new and cutting edge.

Compare that to using something new and cutting edge on a PC. Oh my goodness, you'll have to figure out all these new things to do just to make it work the way you want it to. Etc.
If anything there's been two main failures of Apple.
1. People have to worry about buying a case. Just ridiculous. This means they have to shop for a case. Find out what's the best case that won't break. Match the size etc.

2. The airtags - don't have a way to actually use them UNTIL you shop for a companion keychain or sticky.

3. Ocassionally people still have to remember their apple ID.

[garbulky]

Jul 1, 2021 14:00:05 GMT -5 KeithL said:

I'm inclined to agree there... but only up to a point.

Yes, if you are unwilling to expend the effort to learn how things work, Apple's products are more likely to work for you more of the time.

But I disagree that this is necessarily a good way for things to be.

I'm relatively comfortable not knowing all of the inner details of how my car works.

But it would be a problem if I didn't know enough to know that the oil needs to be changed occasionally.

And it would be a real problem if I didn't realize that the gas tank needs to be refilled pretty often.

I don't doubt that someday cars will inform us directly when they need that oil change...

And, someday, my car may even schedule the appointment for me when it's due...

But it's going to be a while before my car can actually drive itself to the shop...

And longer before I trust my car with my credit card number it would need to pay for that oil change...

The problem is that today there is a lot of technology that ends up being in this sort of limbo...

For example, if you think that "cell phones just work", then you're going to have a problem when you try to make a call in an area with no coverage...

And, if you think that "WiFi just works", you're destined to be very perplexed when you discover that your music always has dropouts when you're in that one corner of the basement...

And, likewise, "automatic cloud backup" is really neat... but, if it stops working, and you're too clueless to understand the error messages, then you're going to have problems.

(That "restore my system from the cloud" button is great... until you push it and find out the most recent backup occurred the day you bought the computer.)

And, if your IPad stops working on a Friday night, and you don't understand how it works, you'd better hope that "the Apple genius" answers support calls on weekends...

Yes, you can survive not knowing those details...

And you probably won't die because you didn't realize that your cell phone can't reach 911 from the bottom of a mine shaft...

But I think we're still a long way from its being a good idea to "just trust our tech"...

Referring to a Windows computer Garbulky says: "Oh my goodness, you'll have to figure out all these new things to do just to make it work the way you want it to."

My reply to that is: "But at least, after I learn all those things, it will be POSSIBLE to make it work the way I want it to."

And, with Windows, there are a zillion ways in which I can at least attempt to do so.

In contrast, with that iPad, I probably won't be ABLE to change the way it works, even if I AM willing to put in the effort.

(It reminds me of some early Ford models - which you could reportedly "get in any color you wanted - as long as you wanted black.")

Jul 1, 2021 10:39:20 GMT -5 garbulky said:

This. Also AudioHTIT in this case I'm not referrring to the power users. I'm talking about the vast majority of regular apple AND windows users which are just regular people that aren't tech savvy.
Most apple users don't think they want to remain ignorant. It just doesn't cross their minds. I think their thought process is - it does what I want it for AND it fits in their life in some sort of convenient manner. Other than thinking it's expensive, I don't think most give further thought to it. So when a new ipad comes out and it has LIDAR, that probably means nothing for somebody like my dad. But he might purchase it simply because it's the latest version when he wants to buy it.
If you think about it, that really IS how technology should work. It should fulfil your needs and you shouldn't have to worry about the insides or how to make it work just because it offers something new and cutting edge.

Compare that to using something new and cutting edge on a PC. Oh my goodness, you'll have to figure out all these new things to do just to make it work the way you want it to. Etc.
If anything there's been two main failures of Apple.
1. People have to worry about buying a case. Just ridiculous. This means they have to shop for a case. Find out what's the best case that won't break. Match the size etc.

2. The airtags - don't have a way to actually use them UNTIL you shop for a companion keychain or sticky.

3. Ocassionally people still have to remember their apple ID.

I 100% agree that tech isn't at the point where you can just straight up trust it. But what that means is people don't learn to use it. Instead, they just stay confused, likely avoid using the system, or make repeated mistakes. At my work, my main job involves teaching people how to read the words on the screen and follow the instruction. Like "look at the screen, read the very obvious instructions. Press the appropriate button" is a very foreign concept.


And this is the majority of people. Even though computers might have been around all or the majority of most of their lives, they are very bad at this.
So for instance, there was a lady that couldn't tell the difference between wifi, the internet and her phone.
My co-worker who's worked alongside me for over 15 years (and used a computer everyday) can't tell the difference between Microsoft Windows, an internet browser, his email, and his main work software. Like if I point to the windows log in screen and ask him what is this? his answer will be he doesn't know.

I help people do job applications. They ask me what to do on every step. So for instance
"What do I do now?"
Type in your name.
"OMG THIS IS WAY TOO HARD. WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE SO HARD?"
They will continue the rant for a few minutes until they get to the next field "Put in your address"
"WHAT?!?!?!"

My other co-worker puts in a URL into a work catalog because she thinks that is google because she relates to a textbox. This person has a master's degree.

The other one will sit down and type in the middle of a word document filled with work and be surprised when I ask her what she's doing.
Another one had her flashlight on for days on her phone. I asked her whether she wanted to turn it off and she acted surprised that you could. These people also have master's degrees.

This is not unusual. This is the majority of computer users. They are just so so unprepared for even the most basic obvious tasks on systems. This is what Apple is trying to solve for.

Now having said that, I totally disagree with you about the car.
See you SHOULDNT have to know that you have to change the oil. Or that the gas tank should be refilled.
That's why electric cars are nice. Especially when they come with self-plugin systems.
You dont have to change the oil. Some of the charges automatically plug in when you arrive at home.
Eventually teslas are "supposed" to drive themselves to the service depot. Your credit card is on file with the app - which allegedly allows toddlers to accidentally purchase a 10k self-driving package. But still... that's the idea.
A tech company should make it where people shouldn't have to work around the limitations of systems. It should just do what they want it to do.

[rbk123]

Those co-workers with Masters degrees - you should list their ages vs. their education, as that's much more relevant, unless their Masters are with MIT. Book smart rarely overlaps with tech savvyness, and both rarely overlap with common sense. (just thought I'd throw that last one in there as a bonus).

[garbulky]

Jul 1, 2021 14:27:38 GMT -5 rbk123 said:

Those co-workers with Masters degrees - you should list their ages vs. their education, as that's much more relevant, unless their Masters are with MIT. Book smart rarely overlaps with tech savvyness, and both rarely overlap with common sense. (just thought I'd throw that last one in there as a bonus).

Is it more relevant though? because computers have been around for what 50 years! Plus they work EVERYDAY with computers and smartphones. But yes, most of them are older. But the people I help are all between 25 and 80. Though the younger generation is a little bit more savvy, it's not by much imo.

Meanwhile my older MIL is a whiz at computers and so are several older people I know.

[brutiarti]

Actually all newer vehicles tell you when to change the oil and the life left on it. I wouldn’t like to my car go by itself and be at the mercy of the dealership prices without shopping around.

[KeithL]

That's the catch...

Recent HP printers automatically report when they're low on ink...

And you can configure them to automatically order more ink when they run low...

But you can only do that through the HP store...

You can't pick ma different store...

It's just fine for Apple fans that an iPhone can share pictures with an iPad...

And my Samsung Android phone can automatically download pictures to my Microsoft Windows account...

But, until they're willing to talk to each other, we will not have a "it all just works" world...

And, until then, if you want the benefits of all the stuff that "just works" ...

You're going to have to sacrifice being able to use all the stuff your stuff doesn't work with...

Jul 1, 2021 14:54:25 GMT -5 brutiarti said:

Actually all newer vehicles tell you when to change the oil and the life left on it. I wouldn’t like to my car go by itself and be at the mercy of the dealership prices without shopping around.