This is high-end

[DYohn]

If you've ever owned a Swiss watch you know about their attention to detail and fine precision engineering. And you know that they cost a lot more than a typical consumer watch, especially at the high-end.

Audio is no different. Here's a new turntable from Nagra that defines high-end audio.

www.nagraaudio.com/product/reference-turntable/

Boomzilla this is high-end audio. And not just because of the cost, although if you have to ask how much you cannot afford it.

[Boomzilla]

Thanks, David - I do understand "high-end," both in watches and in audio. I further (and emphatically) agree with you the cost is NOT the determinant of "high end." I own (and have owned) both high-end watches and high-end audio.

I've seen a lot of expensive watches that were definitely NOT "high end." I've also seen a lot of expensive audio equipment that is NOT "high end." But to the other side, I've seen some very high end equipment that is not super expensive. The engineering and performance, IMHO, identify "high end" status - not the price.

And although many if not most high end audio components do carry "if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it" tags, I'm always excited to find the rare high-end component that remains affordable to us hoi-poli. Two that I've encountered fairly lately include the Alta Audio Alec loudspeakers and the Starke Sound A2.640 stereo power amplifier. Now neither of these is inexpensive (both being close to $10K), but that is inexpensive for high-end, and both of the products are qualified to be called" high end" by their engineering and performance.

[cgolf]

Guess I'm a cynical old man but I have a hard time believing that there can be that much difference in quality between a certain price range and a high end price range. Yes at some point of course there are differences, some huge. But also, at some point, there is a point where any differences are negligible or can't be seen or heard or felt other than in the wallet.

I don't claim to know where those price points are. Is a $1000 amp as good as a $10000 amp? or $5000 vs. $15000, etc. And are those differences really noticeable to the ear by any of us?

Like I said, I'm probably just cynical but there has to be a limit as to what differences there can be.

[DYohn]

You pay for quality, both real and perceived. A Patek-Phillipe may not keep any better time than a Seiko, but you pay several hundred X more for one. Same for automobiles, clothing, audio equipment, everything in the world really. It's all about what is important to you.

The high-end is defined by quality and (like it or not) price, and not by function. High-end consumers do not shop function; we mere mortals must.

[DYohn]

Nov 26, 2021 15:53:26 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

Thanks, David - I do understand "high-end," both in watches and in audio. I further (and emphatically) agree with you the cost is NOT the determinant of "high end." I own (and have owned) both high-end watches and high-end audio.

I've seen a lot of expensive watches that were definitely NOT "high end." I've also seen a lot of expensive audio equipment that is NOT "high end." But to the other side, I've seen some very high end equipment that is not super expensive. The engineering and performance, IMHO, identify "high end" status - not the price.

And although many if not most high end audio components do carry "if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it" tags, I'm always excited to find the rare high-end component that remains affordable to us hoi-poli. Two that I've encountered fairly lately include the Alta Audio Alec loudspeakers and the Starke Sound A2.640 stereo power amplifier. Now neither of these is inexpensive (both being close to $10K), but that is inexpensive for high-end, and both of the products are qualified to be called" high end" by their engineering and performance.

$10K is about entry-level for the high-end, about the price of a good turntable cartridge...

Realize that this again has nothing to do with function and everything to do with perceived quality.

[brutiarti]

I like high end when is a tangible thing. But I understand the power of marketing also.

[RichGuy]

[Soup]

Nov 26, 2021 17:55:45 GMT -5 RichGuy said:

So happy I never caught the "vinyl' bug............

[monkumonku]

I'm Japanese-American. When I was little I would hear my parents refer to expensive things as "high tone." I always thought that was a Japanese word for "expensive."

[405x5]

High end is in the wallet of the beholder (no matter what it is)

[DavidR]

rubber band drive............really

[rbk123]

Nice turntable for $175k. Let's put together a group buy - who's in?!!!

[davidl81]

Nov 26, 2021 17:44:42 GMT -5 DYohn said:

Nov 26, 2021 15:53:26 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

Thanks, David - I do understand "high-end," both in watches and in audio. I further (and emphatically) agree with you the cost is NOT the determinant of "high end." I own (and have owned) both high-end watches and high-end audio.

I've seen a lot of expensive watches that were definitely NOT "high end." I've also seen a lot of expensive audio equipment that is NOT "high end." But to the other side, I've seen some very high end equipment that is not super expensive. The engineering and performance, IMHO, identify "high end" status - not the price.

And although many if not most high end audio components do carry "if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it" tags, I'm always excited to find the rare high-end component that remains affordable to us hoi-poli. Two that I've encountered fairly lately include the Alta Audio Alec loudspeakers and the Starke Sound A2.640 stereo power amplifier. Now neither of these is inexpensive (both being close to $10K), but that is inexpensive for high-end, and both of the products are qualified to be called" high end" by their engineering and performance.

$10K is about entry-level for the high-end, about the price of a good turntable cartridge...

Realize that this again has nothing to do with function and everything to do with perceived quality.

And really everything to do with a fool and parting with his money. I mean if you have the money to burn, cool do whatever you want to. But this TT would likely sound the same as any 1-5k TT out on the market.

[DYohn]

Nov 26, 2021 22:31:06 GMT -5 davidl81 said:

Nov 26, 2021 17:44:42 GMT -5 DYohn said:

$10K is about entry-level for the high-end, about the price of a good turntable cartridge...

Realize that this again has nothing to do with function and everything to do with perceived quality.

And really everything to do with a fool and parting with his money. I mean if you have the money to burn, cool do whatever you want to. But this TT would likely sound the same as any 1-5k TT out on the market.

Again, function is not the point.

[audiobill]

I have often heard that certain expensive brands are purchased by lawyers and doctors who don’t really understand what they’re doing.. Quite the opposite, in my experience, they are generally very intelligent, discriminating folk who have figured out how to afford the high end in homes, watches, boats and yes, even audio.

[cgolf]

Agree that at this point, function is not the issue. It's really Economics 101-supply & demand. Actually demand & supply. If I have the $$ to throw away, someone will build something I can throw my $$ at, regardless of what the product is or what it can do.

Listen to my $10000 TT. Yes it does sound just like your $1000 TT but it costs a whole lot more so there!!

[audiobill]

But money spent on high quality, satisfying stuff with high resale is hardly “throwing it away”. Pride of ownership is a real value factor to many, and not everyone needs to pinch pennies. Of course, one can always “rethink the high end”.

[Ex_Vintage]

Nov 27, 2021 6:55:22 GMT -5 audiobill said:

I have often heard that certain expensive brands are purchased by lawyers and doctors who don’t really understand what they’re doing.. Quite the opposite, in my experience, they are generally very intelligent, discriminating folk who have figured out how to afford the high end in homes, watches, boats and yes, even audio.

That's from the law firm of Duey, Screwem and How.

[rbk123]

I bet you still, even after plunking down $175k, need to upgrade the power cord.

[405x5]

One of the more entertaining aspects of “high end” gear is when it’s in a room with normal people who are totally non reactive to it.