Atmos Questions...

[klinemj]

So, back to my Atmos questions! As I was running DIRAC with the new Atmos speakers, I learned my sub amp had fried (likely with whatever took out a channel on my XPA-5 and my Hypex amps). So, that's now finally repaired and installed again (YAY! It works!).

But, I tried to play an Atmos movie (on Hulu, Disney+, and Netflix). Source is my new Roku Ultra, and my XMC-2 shows the Roku is providing Atmos content. But, on each app, the XMC-2's audio shows "True HD". And so far, I'm not hearing any sound from my Atmos Top/Height speakers. The XMC-2 is set to "auto" for the audio format, so I assumed it would play the format the Roku is providing.

I did check and the top speakers are showing in the setup. FYI, when I was running Dirac and found the sub was not playing - I did have an issue with too low volume on one of the top speakers. Given I knew I was going to run Dirac again once the sub was fixed, I wrapped up the run and created filters and loaded them "as is". So, I don't know if my issue is that I have a setting wrong on the Roku or XMC-2 or if perhaps the Diract run being incomplete is causing a lack of sound from the tops.

Thoughts?

Mark

[geebo]

Jul 2, 2024 13:54:21 GMT -5 klinemj said:

So, back to my Atmos questions! As I was running DIRAC with the new Atmos speakers, I learned my sub amp had fried (likely with whatever took out a channel on my XPA-5 and my Hypex amps). So, that's now finally repaired and installed again (YAY! It works!).

But, I tried to play an Atmos movie (on Hulu, Disney+, and Netflix). Source is my new Roku Ultra, and my XMC-2 shows the Roku is providing Atmos content. But, on each app, the XMC-2's audio shows "True HD". And so far, I'm not hearing any sound from my Atmos Top/Height speakers. The XMC-2 is set to "auto" for the audio format, so I assumed it would play the format the Roku is providing.

I did check and the top speakers are showing in the setup. FYI, when I was running Dirac and found the sub was not playing - I did have an issue with too low volume on one of the top speakers. Given I knew I was going to run Dirac again once the sub was fixed, I wrapped up the run and created filters and loaded them "as is". So, I don't know if my issue is that I have a setting wrong on the Roku or XMC-2 or if perhaps the Diract run being incomplete is causing a lack of sound from the tops.

Thoughts?

Mark

THe incoming stream for Atmos content will be Dolby TrueHD 7.1. The sound mode, if set to auto, should show Atmos. But the incoming will never show Atmos. With some streamers the incoming will be show as DD+ and again, if it's Atmos encoded the surround mode should show Atmos. You'll have to switch your display to show the surround mode to see Atmos, the Bitstream display will never show Atmos.

[klinemj]

Jul 2, 2024 14:19:39 GMT -5 geebo said:

Jul 2, 2024 13:54:21 GMT -5 klinemj said:

So, back to my Atmos questions! As I was running DIRAC with the new Atmos speakers, I learned my sub amp had fried (likely with whatever took out a channel on my XPA-5 and my Hypex amps). So, that's now finally repaired and installed again (YAY! It works!).

But, I tried to play an Atmos movie (on Hulu, Disney+, and Netflix). Source is my new Roku Ultra, and my XMC-2 shows the Roku is providing Atmos content. But, on each app, the XMC-2's audio shows "True HD". And so far, I'm not hearing any sound from my Atmos Top/Height speakers. The XMC-2 is set to "auto" for the audio format, so I assumed it would play the format the Roku is providing.

I did check and the top speakers are showing in the setup. FYI, when I was running Dirac and found the sub was not playing - I did have an issue with too low volume on one of the top speakers. Given I knew I was going to run Dirac again once the sub was fixed, I wrapped up the run and created filters and loaded them "as is". So, I don't know if my issue is that I have a setting wrong on the Roku or XMC-2 or if perhaps the Diract run being incomplete is causing a lack of sound from the tops.

Thoughts?

Mark

THe incoming stream for Atmos content will be Dolby TrueHD 7.1. The sound mode, if set to auto, should show Atmos. But the incoming will never show Atmos. With some streamers the incoming will be show as DD+ and again, if it's Atmos encoded the surround mode should show Atmos. You'll have to switch your display to show the surround mode to see Atmos, the Bitstream display will never show Atmos.

So, let me make sure I understand...looking at the XMC-2 display (on the unit), I am assuming the incoming stream is the top line of the 3 lines shown. Mine shows "Roku" and "Atmos". The second line shows audio as TrueHD. Sound mode on the XMC-2 is set to auto. But, it doesn't show Atmos. This seems reversed to what you are saying, if I understand properly.

On your comment "You'll have to switch your display to show the surround mode to see Atmos, the Bitstream display will never show Atmos." How do I do that? Is that an XMC-2 setting? FYI, I go "source to XMC-2 via HDMI to my TV vis HDMI" Net, this isn't set up for ARC from the display back to the XMC-2.

PS - in any case, I'm also not getting any sound from the height speakers. Maybe I've only watched a part of the movie that doesn't have any, but...still odd.

Thanks,

Mark

[doc1963]

Jul 2, 2024 14:27:08 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Jul 2, 2024 14:19:39 GMT -5 geebo said:

THe incoming stream for Atmos content will be Dolby TrueHD 7.1. The sound mode, if set to auto, should show Atmos. But the incoming will never show Atmos. With some streamers the incoming will be show as DD+ and again, if it's Atmos encoded the surround mode should show Atmos. You'll have to switch your display to show the surround mode to see Atmos, the Bitstream display will never show Atmos.

So, let me make sure I understand...looking at the XMC-2 display (on the unit), I am assuming the incoming stream is the top line of the 3 lines shown. Mine shows "Roku" and "Atmos". The second line shows audio as TrueHD. Sound mode on the XMC-2 is set to auto. But, it doesn't show Atmos. This seems reversed to what you are saying, if I understand properly.

On your comment "You'll have to switch your display to show the surround mode to see Atmos, the Bitstream display will never show Atmos." How do I do that? Is that an XMC-2 setting? FYI, I go "source to XMC-2 via HDMI to my TV vis HDMI" Net, this isn't set up for ARC from the display back to the XMC-2.

PS - in any case, I'm also not getting any sound from the height speakers. Maybe I've only watched a part of the movie that doesn't have any, but...still odd.

Thanks,

Mark

Of the three lines of information shown in the display, the "top" line shows your input source, the output decoding mode, and your volume level. The second line ("A") shows the information regarding the "incoming" audio signal. The third line ("V") shows the information regarding the "incoming" video signal.

So if line "A" (the second line) shows "TrueHD" and the top line shows "Atmos", then that would be correct if the source audio is Atmos.

Hope that makes sense...

[geebo]

^^^ What he said ^^^
The top line is the surround mode being played and the second line is the incoming stream.
If you go into Settings > Preferences and set your display to show surround mode then you'll see a big ATMOS on the screen of the XMC.
If you set it to Bitstream then the display will show TrueHD or whatever the incoming signal is.

You can go into Setup > Speakers > Preset > Levels you should be able to get test tones from all the connected speakers.

[klinemj]

Thanks doc1963 and geebo - based on what I'm seeing, I'm playing an Atmos movie (see this image):



The XMC-2 is set to auto-detect audio format:



And the Front Display on the XMC-2 shows TrueHD.



I'll try to get test tones tomorrow.

Maybe I just wasn't at a part of the movie that was using the tops.

Mark

[klinemj]

Jul 2, 2024 14:50:17 GMT -5 geebo said:

^^^ What he said ^^^
The top line is the surround mode being played and the second line is the incoming stream.
If you go into Settings > Preferences and set your display to show surround mode then you'll see a big ATMOS on the screen of the XMC.
If you set it to Bitstream then the display will show TrueHD or whatever the incoming signal is.

You can go into Setup > Speakers > Preset > Levels you should be able to get test tones from all the connected speakers.

And just to be clear...when you say "go into Settings > Preferences and set your display to show surround mode then you'll see a big ATMOS on the screen of the XMC."...that's on the XMC-2, right?

Mark

[geebo]

Jul 2, 2024 15:19:54 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Jul 2, 2024 14:50:17 GMT -5 geebo said:

^^^ What he said ^^^
The top line is the surround mode being played and the second line is the incoming stream.
If you go into Settings > Preferences and set your display to show surround mode then you'll see a big ATMOS on the screen of the XMC.
If you set it to Bitstream then the display will show TrueHD or whatever the incoming signal is.

You can go into Setup > Speakers > Preset > Levels you should be able to get test tones from all the connected speakers.

And just to be clear...when you say "go into Settings > Preferences and set your display to show surround mode then you'll see a big ATMOS on the screen of the XMC."...that's on the XMC-2, right?

Mark

According to your info screen the incoming stream is TrueHD and the Surround Mode being played is Atmos. You should get sound from your ceiling speakers if/when there is something that is suppose to go to them.

Yes, the XMC-2 can show different things on the front display depending on what you have set in Preferences. The difference between the XMC and the RMC's is that the RMC can display two different choices at the same time.

[ttocs]

Jul 2, 2024 15:17:42 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Thanks doc1963 and geebo - based on what I'm seeing, I'm playing an Atmos movie (see this image):

View Attachment

The XMC-2 is set to auto-detect audio format:

View Attachment

And the Front Display on the XMC-2 shows TrueHD.

View Attachment

I'll try to get test tones tomorrow.

Maybe I just wasn't at a part of the movie that was using the tops.

Mark

The thing about "hearing" the Tops is that you can't, at least not with a great deal of certainty.

The only real way to hear them is to turn off all other amps. This way you will hear how little volume level they have most of the time, and then all of a sudden they can make lots of sound.

With my system that means I need to remove the interconnects from the XMC-2 for the Surrounds so I can truly hear just the Tops, and also turn off the LCR amps. I've done this to analyze how much sound comes through certain channels, like LFE, Wides, and Tops.

[klinemj]

Thanks geebo - I went into the XMC-2 menu and I got it to display the surround mode, and I also got test tones through the speakers! So, I know it's working now.

In a couple days, my wife will be gone for the day, so I will re-run DIRAC with my sub working. Then, I'll give some ATMOS movies a watch.

Any suggestions from you or others with give the top speakers a workout would be appreciated!

Mark

[klinemj]

Jul 2, 2024 15:47:08 GMT -5 ttocs said:

The thing about "hearing" the Tops is that you can't, at least not with a great deal of certainty.

The only real way to hear them is to turn off all other amps. This way you will hear how little volume level they have most of the time, and then all of a sudden they can make lots of sound.

With my system that means I need to remove the interconnects from the XMC-2 for the Surrounds so I can truly hear just the Tops, and also turn off the LCR amps. I've done this to analyze how much sound comes through certain channels, like LFE, Wides, and Tops.

Thanks - I was going by the approach of lightly touching the drivers, and I didn't feel anything at all. I assumed they were not playing. I did get test tones, so I know they are working. I'll re-run DIRAC and play something that gives the tops a workout (and suggestions would be appreciated!)

Mark

[ttocs]

Jul 2, 2024 15:53:14 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Jul 2, 2024 15:47:08 GMT -5 ttocs said:

The thing about "hearing" the Tops is that you can't, at least not with a great deal of certainty.

The only real way to hear them is to turn off all other amps. This way you will hear how little volume level they have most of the time, and then all of a sudden they can make lots of sound.

With my system that means I need to remove the interconnects from the XMC-2 for the Surrounds so I can truly hear just the Tops, and also turn off the LCR amps. I've done this to analyze how much sound comes through certain channels, like LFE, Wides, and Tops.

Thanks - I was going by the approach of lightly touching the drivers, and I didn't feel anything at all. I assumed they were not playing. I did get test tones, so I know they are working. I'll re-run DIRAC and play something that gives the tops a workout (and suggestions would be appreciated!)

Mark

My favorite immersive movie is Blade Runner: Final Cut 4K UHD/BD. The sound is phenomenal, especially while it's raining!

[foggy1956]

Jul 2, 2024 15:53:14 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Jul 2, 2024 15:47:08 GMT -5 ttocs said:

The thing about "hearing" the Tops is that you can't, at least not with a great deal of certainty.

The only real way to hear them is to turn off all other amps. This way you will hear how little volume level they have most of the time, and then all of a sudden they can make lots of sound.

With my system that means I need to remove the interconnects from the XMC-2 for the Surrounds so I can truly hear just the Tops, and also turn off the LCR amps. I've done this to analyze how much sound comes through certain channels, like LFE, Wides, and Tops.

Thanks - I was going by the approach of lightly touching the drivers, and I didn't feel anything at all. I assumed they were not playing. I did get test tones, so I know they are working. I'll re-run DIRAC and play something that gives the tops a workout (and suggestions would be appreciated!)

Mark

In my system, running the tops a few db hotter provides me with a more immersive experience.

[geebo]

Jul 2, 2024 15:50:05 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Thanks geebo - I went into the XMC-2 menu and I got it to display the surround mode, and I also got test tones through the speakers! So, I know it's working now.

In a couple days, my wife will be gone for the day, so I will re-run DIRAC with my sub working. Then, I'll give some ATMOS movies a watch.

Any suggestions from you or others with give the top speakers a workout would be appreciated!

Mark

I liked the newest version of Midway.

[foggy1956]

Jul 2, 2024 15:50:05 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Thanks geebo - I went into the XMC-2 menu and I got it to display the surround mode, and I also got test tones through the speakers! So, I know it's working now.

In a couple days, my wife will be gone for the day, so I will re-run DIRAC with my sub working. Then, I'll give some ATMOS movies a watch.

Any suggestions from you or others with give the top speakers a workout would be appreciated!

Mark

Top Gun Maverick 

[klinemj]

So, I'm back to my questions. I got my repaired sub amp back last week and installed it. I set out to run DIRAC - now with my new ATMOS channels and repaired sub amp.

I have mic gain set to 100% and I started off into volume calibration. I'm having a hard time balancing all the non-sub channels with the sub. If I set the main output high enough to get a decent sub output, I can't drop the gain low enough on some of the channels to match the others. I get to -12 dB for certain channels and they are still much louder than others. If I set the main output lower, I get a low S/N ratio error (and I know it's the sub...it's barely playing).

ttocs mentions to:

After the pink noise has been played on every channel and stopped,
Look for the channel with weakest output and adjust the Master Output until the Level is at your desired setting.

Then match all the other Speaker Channels to that setting.

Then set the Subwoofer(s) to a setting that is +6dB higher than the Speaker channels, this will cause Dirac to play the subwoofer sweeps at the same level as the speakers in Measurement.

A few questions:
1) what defines the "desired setting" for the master output?
2) when matching all the other channels to "that setting" - what is "that setting"? The setting of the master output?
3) on setting the sub to +6dB vs. others...is that done within DIRAC? DIRAC is starting with with the sub at 0 dB cut, so I can only lower it.

I must be missing something (or several things!).

Mark

[ttocs]

Jul 9, 2024 12:06:39 GMT -5 klinemj said:

So, I'm back to my questions. I got my repaired sub amp back last week and installed it. I set out to run DIRAC - now with my new ATMOS channels and repaired sub amp.

I have mic gain set to 100% and I started off into volume calibration. I'm having a hard time balancing all the non-sub channels with the sub. If I set the main output high enough to get a decent sub output, I can't drop the gain low enough on some of the channels to match the others. I get to -12 dB for certain channels and they are still much louder than others. If I set the main output lower, I get a low S/N ratio error (and I know it's the sub...it's barely playing).

ttocs mentions to:

After the pink noise has been played on every channel and stopped,
Look for the channel with weakest output and adjust the Master Output until the Level is at your desired setting.

Then match all the other Speaker Channels to that setting.

Then set the Subwoofer(s) to a setting that is +6dB higher than the Speaker channels, this will cause Dirac to play the subwoofer sweeps at the same level as the speakers in Measurement.

A few questions:
1) what defines the "desired setting" for the master output?
2) when matching all the other channels to "that setting" - what is "that setting"? The setting of the master output?
3) on setting the sub to +6dB vs. others...is that done within DIRAC? DIRAC is starting with with the sub at 0 dB cut, so I can only lower it.

I must be missing something (or several things!).

Mark

Mark, please take a look at this image. It’s a screenshot of a recent Dirac session. I’m waiting at a doctor appointment and don’t have my computer at the moment, but this image showing settings I use might be helpful until after my appointment.

[marcl]

Jul 9, 2024 12:06:39 GMT -5 klinemj said:

So, I'm back to my questions. I got my repaired sub amp back last week and installed it. I set out to run DIRAC - now with my new ATMOS channels and repaired sub amp.

I have mic gain set to 100% and I started off into volume calibration. I'm having a hard time balancing all the non-sub channels with the sub. If I set the main output high enough to get a decent sub output, I can't drop the gain low enough on some of the channels to match the others. I get to -12 dB for certain channels and they are still much louder than others. If I set the main output lower, I get a low S/N ratio error (and I know it's the sub...it's barely playing).

ttocs mentions to:

After the pink noise has been played on every channel and stopped,
Look for the channel with weakest output and adjust the Master Output until the Level is at your desired setting.

Then match all the other Speaker Channels to that setting.

Then set the Subwoofer(s) to a setting that is +6dB higher than the Speaker channels, this will cause Dirac to play the subwoofer sweeps at the same level as the speakers in Measurement.

A few questions:
1) what defines the "desired setting" for the master output?
2) when matching all the other channels to "that setting" - what is "that setting"? The setting of the master output?
3) on setting the sub to +6dB vs. others...is that done within DIRAC? DIRAC is starting with with the sub at 0 dB cut, so I can only lower it.

I must be missing something (or several things!).

Mark

Lots of variables and it's different from system to system.   PM me if you want to talk on the phone.

[klinemj]

Thanks ttocs and marcl - I'm begining to think something is still not right with my repaired sub.

The screenshot ttocs posted is similar to what I was trying - except my sub level at 0 dB cut is almost nothing. Way below other speakers. They were all at similar dB levels but the sub was way lower. If I jack up the main output to get the sub at reasonable output, I can get the sub louder, but I can't cut the other channels enough to compensate and I end up with some of them giving a clipping warning.

I've reached out to Rythmik for help. I have a feeling it will be going back.

Mark

[klinemj]

I think I figured it out...I will test again soon.

But, here's the scoop. The Rythmik documentation is ~weak. From reading it, I thought it I flipped the switch to "PEQ Off" that the rest of the settings were irrelevant. But...No. There's a "gain" and "volume" setting. The "volume" remains live. Gain does not. Cranking "volume" increases the volume via the XMC-2. I'll attempt another DIRAC run soon. I think this should fix it!

Mark