klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jul 9, 2024 18:06:58 GMT -5
With that change - I was able to complete a DIRAC run, and it sounds great!
Mark
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jul 10, 2024 6:07:21 GMT -5
One thing I did notice with ATMOS...running DIRAC seems to take so much more time! I know it's only 4 more channels, but it seemed like much more! LOL! Of course, it's been a while since I ran DIRAC, so it could be that I'm older and less patient than I used to be. LOL!
Mark
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jul 10, 2024 13:05:33 GMT -5
Also, I should mention that I called Emotiva to make sure I was understand the different settings on the XMC-2 to make sure I wasn't missing something on it. Jake was very helpful in talking me through the settings. That helped me isolate the problem away from "me being a dummy on the settings" and possibly being a sub issue. A quick email to Brian Ding of Rhytmik got me on track after that.
Mark
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jul 10, 2024 13:20:32 GMT -5
foggy1956Thanks for the Top Gun Maverick reco. Wow... Mark
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Jul 10, 2024 13:36:41 GMT -5
foggy1956 Thanks for the Top Gun Maverick reco. Wow... Mark When things are working right, you'll feel it! I use the first three minutes of this movie as a go-to for HT setup when something in the system has changed. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jul 10, 2024 14:00:44 GMT -5
foggy1956 Thanks for the Top Gun Maverick reco. Wow... Mark When things are working right, you'll feel it! I use the first three minutes of this movie as a go-to for HT setup when something in the system has changed. Those were really good, and the Mach 10 scene was amazing. Mark |
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Post by marcl on Oct 1, 2024 7:21:52 GMT -5
This is funny. Matthew reads my question, then suddenly his brain explodes and he interprets what I said the opposite of what I said (keep me honest … was I clear or not?). But … he proceeded to give the answer I expected and he agreed with me. Then … hijinx ensue in the 44 comments below including a long diatribe on pre-Atmos research that may be interesting and relevant in some context, but does not address the proprietary signal processing that Dolby uses to render and steer objects in 3D space with amplitude, delay and size parameters calculated on the fly to use any of a dozen potential speaker configurations to achieve what the engineer intended.
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Oct 1, 2024 8:06:29 GMT -5
This is funny. Matthew reads my question, then suddenly his brain explodes and he interprets what I said the opposite of what I said (keep me honest … was I clear or not?). But … he proceeded to give the answer I expected and he agreed with me. Then … hijinx ensue in the 44 comments below including a long diatribe on pre-Atmos research that may be interesting and relevant in some context, but does not address the proprietary signal processing that Dolby uses to render and steer objects in 3D space with amplitude, delay and size parameters calculated on the fly to use any of a dozen potential speaker configurations to achieve what the engineer intended. He did not understand your intent, and stated position, of your question. But he gave the answer you and I expect, which is, mounting ATMOS Tops on the wall is wrong. Having said that, I would always say that it's ok to do with what you have, and if one must mount on the wall then so be it, but it won't give the intended result. Having heard his answer and what Grimani said, I may just move mine a bit more overhead than they currently are, which is about 40º. So I may just move them closer to 50º instead. Of course, I could just get some Magnepans for the Tops and cover a range instead of a pinpoint. |
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Post by marcl on Oct 1, 2024 8:36:27 GMT -5
This is funny. Matthew reads my question, then suddenly his brain explodes and he interprets what I said the opposite of what I said (keep me honest … was I clear or not?). But … he proceeded to give the answer I expected and he agreed with me. Then … hijinx ensue in the 44 comments below including a long diatribe on pre-Atmos research that may be interesting and relevant in some context, but does not address the proprietary signal processing that Dolby uses to render and steer objects in 3D space with amplitude, delay and size parameters calculated on the fly to use any of a dozen potential speaker configurations to achieve what the engineer intended. He did not understand your intent, and stated position, of your question. But he gave the answer you and I expect, which is, mounting ATMOS Tops on the wall is wrong. Having said that, I would always say that it's ok to do with what you have, and if one must mount on the wall then so be it, but it won't give the intended result. Having heard his answer and what Grimani said, I may just move mine a bit more overhead than they currently are, which is about 40º. So I may just move them closer to 50º instead. Of course, I could just get some Magnepans for the Tops and cover a range instead of a pinpoint. I still wonder if having Maggies up there is better than a more point source. I added those Aperion supertweets to augment my LRS surrounds and I like the effect. Though the tweeters themselves are also more responsive and accurate than the LRS tweeter section. For a while I had my top rears about a foot and a half farther back and 6" closer to the side walls. But I moved them to better match the spec and create a more definitive difference between them and my rear surrounds (which by necessity are a bit farther back and high than they should be). Anyway, right now all four tops are at 45 degrees and 2ft in from the side walls. Looking straight up from MLP ...  |
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 1, 2024 8:50:16 GMT -5
When there’s a movie out there, that is a killer platform for Dolby Atmos, I have two local enough venues to go there and experience the big screen and the Atmos effect at that theater. The expense and complexity of Atmos in the home is more than I cared to bother with 5.1 in the house with killer audio is more than enough to keep up with and enjoy as always, the content of the film is the top priority.
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Oct 1, 2024 9:03:49 GMT -5
He did not understand your intent, and stated position, of your question. But he gave the answer you and I expect, which is, mounting ATMOS Tops on the wall is wrong. Having said that, I would always say that it's ok to do with what you have, and if one must mount on the wall then so be it, but it won't give the intended result. Having heard his answer and what Grimani said, I may just move mine a bit more overhead than they currently are, which is about 40º. So I may just move them closer to 50º instead. Of course, I could just get some Magnepans for the Tops and cover a range instead of a pinpoint. I still wonder if having Maggies up there is better than a more point source. I added those Aperion supertweets to augment my LRS surrounds and I like the effect. Though the tweeters themselves are also more responsive and accurate than the LRS tweeter section. For a while I had my top rears about a foot and a half farther back and 6" closer to the side walls. But I moved them to better match the spec and create a more definitive difference between them and my rear surrounds (which by necessity are a bit farther back and high than they should be). Anyway, right now all four tops are at 45 degrees and 2ft in from the side walls. Looking straight up from MLP ... My issue is that when I installed the Tops, the MLP was closer to the front wall and all the Tops were around 45º for the Top Front and Top Rear. My ceiling is cathedral, so the Top Rear speakers are higher than the front ones but the angles are all the same from the original MLP. Now that the MLP is farther back (a recent change) I need to consider if it will remain in this location or not, but either way I think the Top Front speakers should move closer to MLP, even if just temporary to try it out, and leave the Top Rear speakers where they are. This is an advantage to having surface mounted speakers, being able to move them if I want to. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 1, 2024 9:12:25 GMT -5
I would mention that, if you have to mount Atmos tops on the wall, you may want to consider angling them UP towards the ceiling, rather than down towards the listener. Depending on your room, the speakers, and the texture of the ceiling, that will tend to shift the apparent source of the sound towards the center of the ceiling. (But the result will be very different between a flat smooth ceiling, a flat ceiling with "popcorn texture", and a curved or arched ceiling.) Having the speakers actually pointed at the listener gives the most control... But, if that isn't an option, then do whatever works the best for you. (So, for example, if "the right locations" just aren't an option, then a more diffuse presentation may be a better compromise than "the wrong locations".) This is funny. Matthew reads my question, then suddenly his brain explodes and he interprets what I said the opposite of what I said (keep me honest … was I clear or not?). But … he proceeded to give the answer I expected and he agreed with me. Then … hijinx ensue in the 44 comments below including a long diatribe on pre-Atmos research that may be interesting and relevant in some context, but does not address the proprietary signal processing that Dolby uses to render and steer objects in 3D space with amplitude, delay and size parameters calculated on the fly to use any of a dozen potential speaker configurations to achieve what the engineer intended. He did not understand your intent, and stated position, of your question. But he gave the answer you and I expect, which is, mounting ATMOS Tops on the wall is wrong. Having said that, I would always say that it's ok to do with what you have, and if one must mount on the wall then so be it, but it won't give the intended result. Having heard his answer and what Grimani said, I may just move mine a bit more overhead than they currently are, which is about 40º. So I may just move them closer to 50º instead. Of course, I could just get some Magnepans for the Tops and cover a range instead of a pinpoint. |
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Post by marcl on Oct 1, 2024 9:24:25 GMT -5
I would mention that, if you have to mount Atmos tops on the wall, you may want to consider angling them UP towards the ceiling, rather than down towards the listener. Depending on your room, the speakers, and the texture of the ceiling, that will tend to shift the apparent source of the sound towards the center of the ceiling. (But the result will be very different between a flat smooth ceiling, a flat ceiling with "popcorn texture", and a curved or arched ceiling.) Having the speakers actually pointed at the listener gives the most control... But, if that isn't an option, then do whatever works the best for you. (So, for example, if "the right locations" just aren't an option, then a more diffuse presentation may be a better compromise than "the wrong locations".) He did not understand your intent, and stated position, of your question. But he gave the answer you and I expect, which is, mounting ATMOS Tops on the wall is wrong. Having said that, I would always say that it's ok to do with what you have, and if one must mount on the wall then so be it, but it won't give the intended result. Having heard his answer and what Grimani said, I may just move mine a bit more overhead than they currently are, which is about 40º. So I may just move them closer to 50º instead. Of course, I could just get some Magnepans for the Tops and cover a range instead of a pinpoint. Matthew mentions this as a strategy for Atmos demos at audio shows where you can't mount to the ceiling, and the alternative is a truss. He said he has seen someone put the speakers on a high stand near the wall and then point them up at very close proximity to the ceiling so the angle of reflection could be closely controlled and the reflection would have a lot of focused energy. It makes a ton more sense than the Dolby bouncy speakers that are anemic in bandwidth and power handling, require much higher power/volume to match levels of the other speakers, leak direct sound unless positioned above ear level .... Bouncing full range audio off a hard surface sure works though ... I have been bouncing my main L/R off the side walls for three years with great results. The only challenge is to get the distance calibration correct so the delay is from the source and not the bounce. Dirac struggles with this. Maybe it's not practical in a home, unless you have a sort of industrial motif in your listening room. But I think for a couple thousand bucks a truss is the way to go in a dealer show room.  |
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Oct 1, 2024 10:02:22 GMT -5
I would mention that, if you have to mount Atmos tops on the wall, you may want to consider angling them UP towards the ceiling, rather than down towards the listener. Depending on your room, the speakers, and the texture of the ceiling, that will tend to shift the apparent source of the sound towards the center of the ceiling. (But the result will be very different between a flat smooth ceiling, a flat ceiling with "popcorn texture", and a curved or arched ceiling.) Having the speakers actually pointed at the listener gives the most control... But, if that isn't an option, then do whatever works the best for you. (So, for example, if "the right locations" just aren't an option, then a more diffuse presentation may be a better compromise than "the wrong locations".) He did not understand your intent, and stated position, of your question. But he gave the answer you and I expect, which is, mounting ATMOS Tops on the wall is wrong. Having said that, I would always say that it's ok to do with what you have, and if one must mount on the wall then so be it, but it won't give the intended result. Having heard his answer and what Grimani said, I may just move mine a bit more overhead than they currently are, which is about 40º. So I may just move them closer to 50º instead. Of course, I could just get some Magnepans for the Tops and cover a range instead of a pinpoint. But nobody really " has" to mount speakers on the wall vs a ceiling. Some may not like speaker wire running on the ceiling exposed, but using the form follows function principle, it's not worse than speakers hanging from the ceiling like what I've got. And if one mounts the "Tops" on the wall, wouldn't this be incorrect from a setup standpoint? Shouldn't this then be called Heights so the processor sends the correct info to the wall mounted speaker? |
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Post by marcl on Oct 1, 2024 11:14:40 GMT -5
I would mention that, if you have to mount Atmos tops on the wall, you may want to consider angling them UP towards the ceiling, rather than down towards the listener. Depending on your room, the speakers, and the texture of the ceiling, that will tend to shift the apparent source of the sound towards the center of the ceiling. (But the result will be very different between a flat smooth ceiling, a flat ceiling with "popcorn texture", and a curved or arched ceiling.) Having the speakers actually pointed at the listener gives the most control... But, if that isn't an option, then do whatever works the best for you. (So, for example, if "the right locations" just aren't an option, then a more diffuse presentation may be a better compromise than "the wrong locations".) But nobody really " has" to mount speakers on the wall vs a ceiling. Some may not like speaker wire running on the ceiling exposed, but using the form follows function principle, it's not worse than speakers hanging from the ceiling like what I've got. And if one mounts the "Tops" on the wall, wouldn't this be incorrect from a setup standpoint? Shouldn't this then be called Heights so the processor sends the correct info to the wall mounted speaker? A useful link to Dolby's actual home theater installation guidelines. Although they do show at least one setup with "height" speakers against the front and rear walls at ceiling height ... this is not how mixing studios are designed. From all that I've heard following AES webinars and articles on the subject, the standard is 7.1.4 with four TOPS. Dolby uses the word "height" in descriptions to distinguish from ear level "bed" speakers. It's worth reading this guide to refresh all of the aspects of Atmos and why Dolby does what they do. www.dolby.com/siteassets/technologies/dolby-atmos/atmos-installation-guidelines-121318_r3.1.pdf |
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Post by swedishcaveman on Oct 2, 2024 3:57:06 GMT -5
I have had my XMC-2 four years and been happy with my 7.1 sound. Last year I bought a Emotiva DR-3 amp, after reading all the good reviews.Great improvement in the front stage and now I had 3 unused amp channels in my Sherbourn 7x200 watt amp. So how to achieve ATMOS 7.1.2 in my basement, with 7 foot concrete ceiling covered with bonded acoustic panels. In ceiling speakers no option. On wall speakers get them to close to side surrounds, risk of bad separation. Finally after a year of slow thinking and internet reading, I found the Klipsch AW-650 outdoor speakers. They have the same tweeter as my side and rear surrounds, but different woofer due to the outdoor capability. So the timber match issue would not be that bad and they include mounting brackets and can be angled up and down towards the MLP. Now I have them mounted 3 foot FWD of MLP and separated 6 foot, toed in and angled down towards the MLP.
After a successful DIRAC six pack calibration (thanks for that tip forum gurus)and a level fine tune with REW Db meter, I was good to go.But the first movie was not very impressive, Disney+ stream of Defenders of the galaxy. Then I tried the 4K UHD disc Resident Evil The Final Chapter, now we are talking. Phantom speaker all over the place, sound from the far corners of the room were there are no speakers. The sub integration became perfect after this last DIRAC run, it sound like I have subwoofers every were a deep sound emitted from.
Maybe I just got lucky and did everything right for once.This was the cheapest and best upgrade so far.
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