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Post by jgeiger on Jan 30, 2010 20:46:59 GMT -5
Sony PS3 thick version
UMC-1 w/Original Firmware
Samsung LN52650A
I did a test today while watching a Blu-ray. Before the UMC I had the HDMI plugged directly into the television, and while watching a movie, the TV showed that it was changing from 1080i/60 to 1080p/24 when the movie began playing.
After hooking the system up with the UMC going from PS3 -> UMC -> TV, the only way the TV shows the switching is on the pass through setting. Auto keeps the movie playback at 1080/60.
While this doesn't bother me (not using the UMC video correction right now) I wanted to post clarifying what I had discovered on my equipment.
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Post by thisonekidmongo on Jan 30, 2010 21:01:48 GMT -5
Yeah, I complained about this when I got my UMC a few weeks ago, thinking it was a bug, but apparently it's supposed to work like that. Passthrough's the only way to get 1080p/24.
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Post by jahays32 on Jan 30, 2010 23:54:26 GMT -5
Yes pass through is the only way to get 1080P/24.
I was hoping that video resolution setting was per input. So that I could set everything to 1080P/60 and then set the Blu-Ray to pass through for 1080P/24.
But the resolution setting is global. So now everything is set to pass through and I get 1080i/60 or 1080p/60 or 1080P/24.
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Post by snodog on Jan 31, 2010 0:12:25 GMT -5
What is the point of having 1080P/60 if the max it can produce is 24?
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Post by pwrchrd on Jan 31, 2010 1:10:23 GMT -5
I have had no problem getting 1080P/24 to pass thru my UMC-1.
I have the global output set to 1080P/60 (not auto).
When I have my DirecTV DVR sending a 1080i or 720P signal to the UMC-1, the output to my projector is 1080P/60.
When my BluRay player sends 1080P/24, this passes thru the UMC-1 to my projector which indicates a 1080P/24 signal.
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Post by jahays32 on Jan 31, 2010 1:34:14 GMT -5
I have had no problem getting 1080P/24 to pass thru my UMC-1. I have the global output set to 1080P/60 (not auto). When I have my DirecTV DVR sending a 1080i or 720P signal to the UMC-1, the output to my projector is 1080P/60. When my BluRay player sends 1080P/24, this passes thru the UMC-1 to my projector which indicates a 1080P/24 signal. What Blu-Ray player do you have? Because 1080p/60 only shows 1080p/60 for me. Here is what Emotiva states in the manual so your UMC-1 must be broke, or my UMC-1 must be broke;D RESOLUTION (This is a global control.) This is where you set up the resolution of the output to match your video monitor or projector and display unit. There are multiple selections; 480P 60Hz, 576P 50Hz, 720P 50 Hz, 1080i 50Hz, 1080i 60Hz, 1080P 60 Hz, Auto and Pass Through. Note: A 1080p24 source will get routed through the UMC-1 as 1080p24 but is not selectable for scaling. ( But does not say how it is routed) When set to Auto the UMC‐1, Blu‐Ray Player and Video display will communicate and set the optimum resolution for all units. When set to Pass Through it will pass the video signal to the display device bit for bit. (No scaling or video processing are done in this mode.) |
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Post by zductive on Jan 31, 2010 3:19:43 GMT -5
I wish that the pass-through was just a pass-through. It seems that the umc is still trying to negotiate hdcp while in pass-through. As a result, the screen flashes numerous times while the UMC, dvdo edge and projector negotiate.
I have found several times that the image winds up with the wrong aspect ratio when I don't use the pass-through mode.
The umc video section is so limited compared to a simple video processor like the edge that I don't have any real use for the umc-1 video scalar. I prefer using the umc switcher over the edge's because the umc has a front panel display. So, I leave the UMC in pass-through and let the edge perform all scaling / video processing.
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Post by owtuv on Jan 31, 2010 3:25:07 GMT -5
Yeah, I complained about this when I got my UMC a few weeks ago, thinking it was a bug, but apparently it's supposed to work like that. Passthrough's the only way to get 1080p/24. That´s either a bug or a bad design decision IMHO. Best regards, Ole Willy Tuv |
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markd
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Post by markd on Jan 31, 2010 7:08:49 GMT -5
I wish that the pass-through was just a pass-through. It seems that the umc is still trying to negotiate hdcp while in pass-through. As a result, the screen flashes numerous times while the UMC, dvdo edge and projector negotiate. I have found several times that the image winds up with the wrong aspect ratio when I don't use the pass-through mode. The umc video section is so limited compared to a simple video processor like the edge that I don't have any real use for the umc-1 video scalar. I prefer using the umc switcher over the edge's because the umc has a front panel display. So, I leave the UMC in pass-through and let the edge perform all scaling / video processing. I hope that they address some of these issues. The video processing is one of the main reasons I'm looking at the UMC-1. Since they decrypt the video to allow the OSD in pass-through, they still need to do HDCP. From the description, pass-through still goes through the VP, so it must decrypt. Having the screen FLASH while that negotiation is occurring is either a bug or a less than ideal design choice. It should be blanked during that phase. Incorrect aspect ratio sometimes is a bug. jgeiger- your post says you tested Pass through and Auto. Can/did you test setting the output res of the UMC to 1080p60? |
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Jan 31, 2010 10:32:31 GMT -5
Auto will only work like the OP wants if the TV's default setting is 1080p/24.
In auto the UMC asks the display what format it wants.
If the default in the EDID information (transmitted via HDMI) on the display is 1080p/60 then that is what you get even though 1080p/24 is a valid input on the display.
Passthrough means that the UMC will ignore the EDID information from the display and "passthrough" to the display whatever comes in.
Remember, HDMI is a two way communication device.
The UMC is working as designed.
BTW does that display do a proper 5:5 pulldown?
Some 120hz sets still do a 3:2 and just double that to get 120hz.
The real work around to all this is an independent video setting for each input just like they do now for each audio input.
Don't know if they can implement this via a firmware upgrade.
Maybe after we have a stable firmware, we can start asking for additional features.
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Post by jgeiger on Jan 31, 2010 11:07:37 GMT -5
The UMC is working as designed. As designed, yes. As intended? I don't think so. The flaw as I see it, is asking the display first what wants to display. It should be asking the source first, what it's sending, then ask the display what it can display. Based on that information, then do whatever scaling/processing is needed. Think of it like a bank giving a loan. The UMC asks the person requesting the loan "Can you pay 5% interest?" They say yes. Then it asks the bank, "What can you offer?" The bank responds with "Well, 0%, 2% and 5%" The UMC says, well they'll pay 5% so that's what they'll get, even though we know the person would gladly pay 0% if given the option. Most Blu-rays don't just show 24p, the menus and most of the stuff is encoded at 60i. It's only the film itself that's 24p, so once the display is locked at 60i, it won't change, since it's made is declaration. Even though it works for me, I'm missing out on all the "nifty" video processing features in order to get 24p. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jan 31, 2010 11:21:05 GMT -5
The UMC is working as designed. As designed, yes. As intended? I don't think so. The flaw as I see it, is asking the display first what wants to display. It should be asking the source first, what it's sending, then ask the display what it can display. Based on that information, then do whatever scaling/processing is needed. Think of it like a bank giving a loan. The UMC asks the person requesting the loan "Can you pay 5% interest?" They say yes. Then it asks the bank, "What can you offer?" The bank responds with "Well, 0%, 2% and 5%" The UMC says, well they'll pay 5% so that's what they'll get, even though we know the person would gladly pay 0% if given the option. Most Blu-rays don't just show 24p, the menus and most of the stuff is encoded at 60i. It's only the film itself that's 24p, so once the display is locked at 60i, it won't change, since it's made is declaration. Even though it works for me, I'm missing out on all the "nifty" video processing features in order to get 24p. That may be the way you think it should work, but that is not the way HDMI works. Auto should always default to the display resolution. |
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Post by snodog on Jan 31, 2010 11:48:49 GMT -5
Not intending to hijack your post but dont want to create another and this somewhat pertains. If I use component video from my cable box, for whatever reason it didnt have HDMI would that upscale the video? I recall someone saying they had some issues with that. I would have to use optical for audio for that. Cable sucks for sure.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Jan 31, 2010 12:18:28 GMT -5
As designed, yes. As intended? I don't think so. The flaw as I see it, is asking the display first what wants to display. It should be asking the source first, what it's sending, then ask the display what it can display. Based on that information, then do whatever scaling/processing is needed. Think of it like a bank giving a loan. The UMC asks the person requesting the loan "Can you pay 5% interest?" They say yes. Then it asks the bank, "What can you offer?" The bank responds with "Well, 0%, 2% and 5%" The UMC says, well they'll pay 5% so that's what they'll get, even though we know the person would gladly pay 0% if given the option. Most Blu-rays don't just show 24p, the menus and most of the stuff is encoded at 60i. It's only the film itself that's 24p, so once the display is locked at 60i, it won't change, since it's made is declaration. Even though it works for me, I'm missing out on all the "nifty" video processing features in order to get 24p. That may be the way you think it should work, but that is not the way HDMI works. Auto should always default to the display resolution. Overriding what the display wants can lead to damage. If you have to force your PS3 to 24p for example (instead of it being an available choice) you are going against what the set is telling you it can handle via EDID. If damage occurs who is liable? Yes it is very rare now with most recent sets, but not so for older displays. So not only is it working as designed but also as intended. Now we can discuss the merits of 24p in another thread, but I'll bet the majority of viewers will be hard pressed to tell the difference on the majority of displays. (because the a lot of them don't handle 24p any differently than the player does!) |
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Jan 31, 2010 12:23:07 GMT -5
Even though it works for me, I'm missing out on all the "nifty" video processing features in order to get 24p. What nifty features are you talking about?  24p is how most film is encoded. Running 24p to a 24p display (that handles it properly) means virtually no processing was done to the original source. Maybe I misunderstood your post. |
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Post by pwrchrd on Jan 31, 2010 12:44:21 GMT -5
I have had no problem getting 1080P/24 to pass thru my UMC-1. I have the global output set to 1080P/60 (not auto). When I have my DirecTV DVR sending a 1080i or 720P signal to the UMC-1, the output to my projector is 1080P/60. When my BluRay player sends 1080P/24, this passes thru the UMC-1 to my projector which indicates a 1080P/24 signal. What Blu-Ray player do you have? Because 1080p/60 only shows 1080p/60 for me. Here is what Emotiva states in the manual so your UMC-1 must be broke, or my UMC-1 must be broke;D RESOLUTION (This is a global control.) This is where you set up the resolution of the output to match your video monitor or projector and display unit. There are multiple selections; 480P 60Hz, 576P 50Hz, 720P 50 Hz, 1080i 50Hz, 1080i 60Hz, 1080P 60 Hz, Auto and Pass Through. Note: A 1080p24 source will get routed through the UMC-1 as 1080p24 but is not selectable for scaling. ( But does not say how it is routed) When set to Auto the UMC‐1, Blu‐Ray Player and Video display will communicate and set the optimum resolution for all units. When set to Pass Through it will pass the video signal to the display device bit for bit. (No scaling or video processing are done in this mode.) My Blu-Ray player is a Panasonic DMP-BD35 which is set to output 1080P/24 from Blu-Ray discs if available. I just verified this again. When I switch from a scaled source (DirecTV, scaled to 1080P/60 by the UMC-1) to my Blu-Ray, my projector indicates that it is receiving 1080P/24 when the Blu-Ray movie starts to play. All this without touching the menu on the UMC-1 I believe my unit is actually doing what the manual indicates - the 1080P/24 source is routed thru the UMC-1 to the projector, unscaled. You may need to check the settings in your BLu-Ray player to see if there is a way to set a preference for 1080P/24. I hope this helps. |
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Jan 31, 2010 12:47:34 GMT -5
What Blu-Ray player do you have? Because 1080p/60 only shows 1080p/60 for me. Here is what Emotiva states in the manual so your UMC-1 must be broke, or my UMC-1 must be broke;D RESOLUTION (This is a global control.) This is where you set up the resolution of the output to match your video monitor or projector and display unit. There are multiple selections; 480P 60Hz, 576P 50Hz, 720P 50 Hz, 1080i 50Hz, 1080i 60Hz, 1080P 60 Hz, Auto and Pass Through. Note: A 1080p24 source will get routed through the UMC-1 as 1080p24 but is not selectable for scaling. ( But does not say how it is routed) When set to Auto the UMC‐1, Blu‐Ray Player and Video display will communicate and set the optimum resolution for all units. When set to Pass Through it will pass the video signal to the display device bit for bit. (No scaling or video processing are done in this mode.) My Blu-Ray player is a Panasonic DMP-BD35 which is set to output 1080P/24 from Blu-Ray discs if available. I just verified this again. When I switch from a scaled source (DirecTV, scaled to 1080P/60 by the UMC-1) to my Blu-Ray, my projector indicates that it is receiving 1080P/24 when the Blu-Ray movie starts to play. All this without touching the menu on the UMC-1 I believe my unit is actually doing what the manual indicates - the 1080P/24 source is routed thru the UMC-1 to the projector, unscaled. You may need to check the settings in your BLu-Ray player to see if there is a way to set a preference for 1080P/24. I hope this helps. This is how it should work with the UMC set to pass through. |
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Post by pwrchrd on Jan 31, 2010 12:49:37 GMT -5
My Blu-Ray player is a Panasonic DMP-BD35 which is set to output 1080P/24 from Blu-Ray discs if available. I just verified this again. When I switch from a scaled source (DirecTV, scaled to 1080P/60 by the UMC-1) to my Blu-Ray, my projector indicates that it is receiving 1080P/24 when the Blu-Ray movie starts to play. All this without touching the menu on the UMC-1 I believe my unit is actually doing what the manual indicates - the 1080P/24 source is routed thru the UMC-1 to the projector, unscaled. You may need to check the settings in your BLu-Ray player to see if there is a way to set a preference for 1080P/24. I hope this helps. This is how it should work with the UMC set to pass through. Just to clarify - my UMC-1 is set to output 1080P/60. The only time it does not do this is when the source is 1080P/24. |
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Jan 31, 2010 12:54:26 GMT -5
This is how it should work with the UMC set to pass through. Just to clarify - my UMC-1 is set to output 1080P/60. The only time it does not do this is when the source is 1080P/24. So it is set to auto? Or you chose 1080p/60 manually? If so the OP should try this. |
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Post by pwrchrd on Jan 31, 2010 12:57:17 GMT -5
Just to clarify - my UMC-1 is set to output 1080P/60. The only time it does not do this is when the source is 1080P/24. So it is set to auto? Or you chose 1080p/60 manually? If so the OP should try this. It's set to 1080P/60 manually. I know my display can handle this so I have the UMC-1 scaling everything it can to 1080P/60. It just can't (or won't try) to affect a 1080P/24 source - this is just passed thru. |
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