venaka
Emo VIPs 
There is always something bigger!
Posts: 146
|
Post by venaka on Feb 7, 2010 7:16:06 GMT -5
Solid THanks for your hard work.
SO Im trying to dicect your explanation, which by the way is easy to understand for a noobster like me, but one thing that is confusing me..
WHen watching blu-ray through my PS3, should my lg say 1080p/24 or 1080p/60?
I went ahead and took off all the auto stuff you mentioned and put my umc globaly to 1080/60, and set the ps3 to 1080/24, but watching FUll Metal Jacket on bluray and playing games all came out at 1080/60..Should Blu-ray movies be comming out at 1080/24?
|
|
|
|
Post by rskarvan on Feb 7, 2010 7:18:56 GMT -5
Question:
Does the scaler in the UMC-1 do a good job improving the look of the DirecTV when scaled from 720P to 1080P/60? What I am really asking is will my DirecTV look BETTER as a result of the UMC-1? Yes, my tV is 1080P capable. I would like some real-life feedback as to what improvements I can expect (not-noticeable vs. subtle improvement vs. huge improvement)?
Like most people, most of my TV watching is HD content from DirecTV. Thanks.
- Ron
|
|
markd
Emo VIPs
Posts: 182
|
Post by markd on Feb 7, 2010 7:48:32 GMT -5
Hi venaka- Your experience is what some are reporting- that 24 is being changed to 60. 1st thing to do is bypass the UMC- go directly from the PS3 to the TV, and verify that you are getting 24 there. The blu-ray should, don't know about the games. If you are, try going through the UMC again, using both the 1080p60 and pass through options and report your results. Markd Solid THanks for your hard work. SO Im trying to dicect your explanation, which by the way is easy to understand for a noobster like me, but one thing that is confusing me.. WHen watching blu-ray through my PS3, should my lg say 1080p/24 or 1080p/60? I went ahead and took off all the auto stuff you mentioned and put my umc globaly to 1080/60, and set the ps3 to 1080/24, but watching FUll Metal Jacket on bluray and playing games all came out at 1080/60..Should Blu-ray movies be comming out at 1080/24? |
|
venaka
Emo VIPs
There is always something bigger!
Posts: 146
|
Post by venaka on Feb 7, 2010 7:52:25 GMT -5
Question: Does the scaler in the UMC-1 do a good job improving the look of the DirecTV when scaled from 720P to 1080P/60? What I am really asking is will my DirecTV look BETTER as a result of the UMC-1? Yes, my tV is 1080P capable.- Ron hey ron, well I have the Direct H21, my Umc is set to 1080p/60 and it looks good. Is there a difference? VIdeo, Im not quite sure. Im hoping Solid can help out with my question above. I was playing with 1080/60, pass thorugh and auto last night, and what my eyes told me, were that 1080/60 and auto(which changed my display to 1080i), were pretty much the same. I did leave my umc set to 1080p/60, thinking this is better. Now where I have seen a difference that can easily be seen, is with my FAt OLD PS3..My games and Movies look alot better on 1080/60. SOund? By far, big , Huge Improvement on direct tv hd broadcasting. Tonight, well actually tomorrow Im going to play with the video settings the way SS said and ill post what I can see. |
|
venaka
Emo VIPs
There is always something bigger!
Posts: 146
|
Post by venaka on Feb 7, 2010 7:57:16 GMT -5
Hi venaka- Your experience is what some are reporting- that 24 is being changed to 60. Markd Interesting so 1080/24 is better than 1080/60? All along I thought I was getting a better picture seeing that my tv was saying 1080/60 instead of 1080/24..lol I will try your suggestion on going straight to the tv from my ps3 and posting results. |
|
markd
Emo VIPs
Posts: 182
|
Post by markd on Feb 7, 2010 13:30:40 GMT -5
If your TV is capable of handling 24 correctly, what you should see is smoother motion when coming from film sources. If the TV can do 120Hz, it will simply repeat each frame from the BR 5 times- never needing to skip a frame or double repeat one. (As normally happens with 3:2 ratio going from 24 to 60 hz)
This is most apparent with a long pan.
|
|
|
|
Post by solidstate on Feb 7, 2010 13:36:10 GMT -5
Solid THanks for your hard work. SO Im trying to dicect your explanation, which by the way is easy to understand for a noobster like me, but one thing that is confusing me.. WHen watching blu-ray through my PS3, should my lg say 1080p/24 or 1080p/60? I went ahead and took off all the auto stuff you mentioned and put my umc globaly to 1080/60, and set the ps3 to 1080/24, but watching FUll Metal Jacket on bluray and playing games all came out at 1080/60..Should Blu-ray movies be comming out at 1080/24? Take a software hit for your PS3 from Sony first. Make sure your running the latest for the PS3 and try again. Others report no problems using the settings I provided. Are you certain in the options for the PS3 you are setting it to manual 1080p/24 for blueray playback? OK you don't seem to understand what 1080p/60 and 24 is... Is the framerate buddy! OK please tell us the model of TV and generation of PS3 and it's software version your using. This guy might just have a TV that can't even do 24fps in the first place if he doesn't understand dif from 1080p/24 to 1080p/60... OMG thank god I don't work in the field with mainstream consumers I and It would be just horrible... LOL PS Venaka it's just a friendly *poke *poke ehh nothing personal |
|
|
|
Post by solidstate on Feb 7, 2010 13:47:28 GMT -5
I thought the "fat boy" linear PCM PS3 could be upgrade to provide HDMI1.3 TrueHD and DTS-HD ?
If it still can only do linear you have never upgrade it's software man!
Plug it into the net and update the thing already!
POKE POKE
|
|
|
|
Post by solidstate on Feb 7, 2010 13:53:04 GMT -5
Hi venaka- Your experience is what some are reporting- that 24 is being changed to 60. 1st thing to do is bypass the UMC- go directly from the PS3 to the TV, and verify that you are getting 24 there. The blu-ray should, don't know about the games. If you are, try going through the UMC again, using both the 1080p60 and pass through options and report your results. Markd Solid THanks for your hard work. SO Im trying to dicect your explanation, which by the way is easy to understand for a noobster like me, but one thing that is confusing me.. WHen watching blu-ray through my PS3, should my lg say 1080p/24 or 1080p/60? I went ahead and took off all the auto stuff you mentioned and put my umc globaly to 1080/60, and set the ps3 to 1080/24, but watching FUll Metal Jacket on bluray and playing games all came out at 1080/60..Should Blu-ray movies be comming out at 1080/24? I don't believe that as I've heard reports from people that know what they are talking about and they have no problems with this aspect of the unit. IF Emo put an HTTP webserver on the XMC-1 with all UI controls available via web interface... Just think how this could help in these circumstances! If you put UPnP functionality in it, it can even open ports on consumers router at say 8080 and login remotely for support and make adjustments accordingly! DO IT DO IT! PLEASE! It can be a "remote support" option you turn on and off via the UI for opening the ports. Denon has been able to implement this for some years since the AVR-4306 I believe. When a customer screws up the setting on a Denon unit all I have to do is VNC into his LAN use a local machine there to get to the Denon webinteface and them upload a config file to the unit... That's it! No explaining what the setting do to luddites.. none of that hassle... |
|
ratmice
Emo VIPs
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Posts: 1,853
|
Post by ratmice on Feb 7, 2010 13:54:40 GMT -5
OMG thank god I don't work in the field with mainstream consumers I and It would be just horrible... LOLl I think we all are thankful for that!! POKE POKE |
|
venaka
Emo VIPs
There is always something bigger!
Posts: 146
|
Post by venaka on Feb 7, 2010 13:56:34 GMT -5
I thought the "fat boy" linear PCM PS3 could be upgrade to provide HDMI1.3 TrueHD and DTS-HD ? If it still can only do linear you have never upgrade it's software man! Plug it into the net and update the thing already! POKE POKE No problems with the poke. Yeah I do have the fatboy, My audio is superb!.I get all the fancy stuff, it just doesnt show in the umc. FOr video, I will try your advice when I get home. I just thought that 1080/60 would be better than 1080/24. More frames per sec, right? Anyways, like my first post mentioned, why would I want to go back to 1080/24? |
|
|
|
Post by solidstate on Feb 7, 2010 14:00:43 GMT -5
I thought the "fat boy" linear PCM PS3 could be upgrade to provide HDMI1.3 TrueHD and DTS-HD ? If it still can only do linear you have never upgrade it's software man! Plug it into the net and update the thing already! POKE POKE No problems with the poke. Yeah I do have the fatboy, My audio is superb!.I get all the fancy stuff, it just doesnt show in the umc. FOr video, I will try your advice when I get home. I just thought that 1080/60 would be better than 1080/24. More frames per sec, right? Anyways, like my first post mentioned, why would I want to go back to 1080/24? That depends on the source material. All Bluerays that are film based are encoded at 24fps so that's the best setting for Blueray movie playback. 95% of all other video sources will be 30/60 fps It's your PS3 man! Take a software hit on it via the web and then again set it's Blueray playback options to 1080p/24 and also turn off auto for it's global rez and set it to 1080p. DEATH TO AUTO EDID ETC REZ NEGOTIATION !!! as ODM/OEMs can't seem to built working EDID data to CEA-861-D spec to save their lives! Owhh and just forget about them getting HDCP SHA-1 KSV hashes or BKSV correct.... ARGH!!! Right know I think repeater chain issues are the most common... PS An interesting PDF on an Analog Devices HDCP and EDID controller www.analog.com/static/imported-files/application_notes/63230961AN_810_0.pdfGives insight into all that going on when HDMI devices "handshake" Perhaps it gives credence to their mistakes but hey EEs it's been around now for how many years! And you asshats still can't get it to work properly... what a JOKE! |
|
|
|
Post by solidstate on Feb 7, 2010 14:40:53 GMT -5
Venaka,
You gotta start out with telling us the model # of TV you have..
For all I know it can't even do 24p in the first place.
This would explain a lot wouldn't it!
PS just like there are transition TVs that do 1080p but lack the HDMI 1.3 port to accept a 1080p signal, it seems there are some 120Hz TVs that can't take a 1080p/24 signal for what ever reason... sucks I know!
PSS Have you guys seen the new 8500 LED Samsungs... man their 240Hz processing is NICE!!! I was shocked at some reference side pans I tested on it . Absolutely the best I've seen yet from LCD!
|
|
|
|
Post by darien87 on Feb 7, 2010 17:23:09 GMT -5
So I just tried watching a Blu-ray with Solid's suggestions today through my UMC-1 and PS 3. The only way that my TV's info screen says 24Hz is if I set the UMC-1 to "Pass-Through".
I turned 1080p/24fps on, on the PS 3 and tried setting the UMC-1 to 1080p/60Hz and my TV said 1080p/60Hz. I then changed the UMC resolution to Auto, and still my TV said 1080p/60Hz. But when I changed the UMC-1 resolution to pass-throuth, my TV finally said 1080p/24Hz.
So it seems that the only way to get 24fps video is to set the UMC-1 to pass-through.
|
|
|
|
Post by jgeiger on Feb 7, 2010 22:20:43 GMT -5
As designed, yes. As intended? I don't think so. The flaw as I see it, is asking the display first what wants to display. It should be asking the source first, what it's sending, then ask the display what it can display. Based on that information, then do whatever scaling/processing is needed. Think of it like a bank giving a loan. The UMC asks the person requesting the loan "Can you pay 5% interest?" They say yes. Then it asks the bank, "What can you offer?" The bank responds with "Well, 0%, 2% and 5%" The UMC says, well they'll pay 5% so that's what they'll get, even though we know the person would gladly pay 0% if given the option. Most Blu-rays don't just show 24p, the menus and most of the stuff is encoded at 60i. It's only the film itself that's 24p, so once the display is locked at 60i, it won't change, since it's made is declaration. Even though it works for me, I'm missing out on all the "nifty" video processing features in order to get 24p. That may be the way you think it should work, but that is not the way HDMI works. Auto should always default to the display resolution. So, not to rehash this, but based on lonnie's post in this thread emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=preamps&action=display&thread=9262This is just one of the those things with HDMI and all units will have it. In the latest set of regulations it is basically a three step process. The source will talk to the processor and then the processor back to the source. Step two is the processor talking to the monitor or projector and the monitor talking back to the processor. Step three is the monitor talking through the processor all the way back to the source. Once all three steps have confrimed a lot of information then everything just runs. The HDMI works like I described, and as such, the UMC isn't working as expected when in auto mode, especially if it needs to re-negotiate when the PS3 changes from 60 to 24. |
|
venaka
Emo VIPs
There is always something bigger!
Posts: 146
|
Post by venaka on Feb 8, 2010 6:26:20 GMT -5
Venaka, You gotta start out with telling us the model # of TV you have. lg 47lg70 SS, above you will see my lg model, I was busy last night, like alot of you were watching the underdogs win, but it looks to me like I bet im going to have DArienz problem. |
|
venaka
Emo VIPs
There is always something bigger!
Posts: 146
|
Post by venaka on Feb 8, 2010 6:40:51 GMT -5
So it seems that the only way to get 24fps video is to set the UMC-1 to pass-through. Ok , so why are we looking for lower fps.. man Im so confused  I know in games, the higher the fps the more im gonna kick butt. SO shouldnt we be happy that the umc is scalling everything to 1080/60? |
|
|
|
Post by weigle2 on Feb 8, 2010 7:52:52 GMT -5
Hi venaka- Your experience is what some are reporting- that 24 is being changed to 60. 1st thing to do is bypass the UMC- go directly from the PS3 to the TV, and verify that you are getting 24 there. The blu-ray should, don't know about the games. If you are, try going through the UMC again, using both the 1080p60 and pass through options and report your results. Markd I don't believe that as I've heard reports from people that know what they are talking about and they have no problems with this aspect of the unit. IF Emo put an HTTP webserver on the XMC-1 with all UI controls available via web interface... Just think how this could help in these circumstances! If you put UPnP functionality in it, it can even open ports on consumers router at say 8080 and login remotely for support and make adjustments accordingly! DO IT DO IT! PLEASE! It can be a "remote support" option you turn on and off via the UI for opening the ports. Denon has been able to implement this for some years since the AVR-4306 I believe. When a customer screws up the setting on a Denon unit all I have to do is VNC into his LAN use a local machine there to get to the Denon web interface and them upload a config file to the unit... That's it! No explaining what the setting do to luddites.. none of that hassle... Solid, I agree, HTTP interface should be a standard on all decent gear. Emotiva needs to get on the bandwagon with HTTP, ASAP. The flexibility it allows for both the user and vendor far outweigh the cost of implementing it. They will soon be left in the dust with old ways of updating their gear if they don't. Escient had this over 5 years ago with their music servers, so isn't it about time? This really concerns me, as I am having second thoughts on going with the XMC when it comes out, if it doesn't have HTTP built in. Weigle2 |
|
bootman
Emo VIPs
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
|
Post by bootman on Feb 8, 2010 8:24:28 GMT -5
So it seems that the only way to get 24fps video is to set the UMC-1 to pass-through. Ok , so why are we looking for lower fps.. man Im so confused I know in games, the higher the fps the more im gonna kick butt. SO shouldnt we be happy that the umc is scalling everything to 1080/60? Film is shot at 24fps. TV in the US (NTSC) display at 30fps TV in Europe display at 25fps. So to avoid the conversion from 24 to 30 (or more precisely multiples of these numbers) without duplicating frames, requires a display to have native 24p support. (this is done via a 3:2 conversion of the original signal for those without support at the player) Ever wonder why sets now are either 120 or 240? Its a direct multiple of 24. The original HD sets where 60. Why? its a direct multiple of 30! (and early 120 sets where not 24p capable because they were in fact a doubled 60hz set.) |
|
markd
Emo VIPs
Posts: 182
|
Post by markd on Feb 8, 2010 9:29:57 GMT -5
Solid- The 1st two posts in this thread are pretty specific that they have 24Hz working until they add the UMC into the mix. That is the simplest way to prove where the problem is- if you plug in direct from PS3 to TV (which is what I asked venaka to try) and get 24Hz, then there is an issue with the UMC. By my count there is one user who says it works. venaka- I answered the question about why 24 is better than 60 here- emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=preamps&thread=9068&page=3#139180bootman is adding more data- but the key is that every frame is duplicated the same number of times when working with a film source. If you take 24 and bring it to 60, you repeat some frames twice, and some three times. This causes visual artifacts if there is motion in the material. |
|
