markd
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 182
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Post by markd on Feb 8, 2010 18:00:43 GMT -5
I don't see single buttons- wouldn't you need to walk the menus to change the setting?Also, you probably wouldn't notice it with a horizon pan- try a horizontal pan of a forest, something with lots of strong verticals. Buildings in the city work pretty well too. No, I don't have a UMC yet. I don't even have a TV that can handle 24Hz yet. But my next TV will for sure, and I really don't want to be shopping for another pre/pro. For all other sources, I'd be quite happy to leave it set to 1080p60. (Once I get that new TV- for now it'll be 720p60) Thank you for running the experiments. You can press the "Video" button on the UMC remote, which cycles through each resolution one by one. Passthrough happens to be right after 1080p/60hz, so technically, one button press can get you to Passthrough, provided you're going there from 1080p/60hz. Of course, going back from Passthrough to 1080p/60 is a different matter... Thanks, maybe that isn't too bad. Might be easy enough to have the macro just hammer the video button the right number of times to get back to /60. Of course if you get out of whack. . . . ;-) |
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Post by dkjohn on Feb 8, 2010 20:30:31 GMT -5
So if I am watching a standard def DVD on my blueray player do I set the resolution on the player to 480p and set my UMC on 1080p to see the results of the scaling in the UMC-1.
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Post by solidstate on Feb 8, 2010 21:10:33 GMT -5
you got it!
and a major shame that it can't process 480p/24 coming from the Oppo Bluerays as they can do this...
Dan is this possible via firmware update to support this?
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Post by solidstate on Feb 8, 2010 21:13:27 GMT -5
At one point I was under the impression (reading Audioholics duh!) that if you set the player to 480i out that the progressive frames in the interlaced MPEG2 stream would be recoverable at the end of a TDMS signal but this isn't the case (Audioholics an MPEG2 stream and a TDMS signal are apples and oranges). Only way for it to work is at the player/transport pulling the progressive 24p out of the interlaced MPEG2 stream at the decode level. Total shame Emo didn't allow 480p/24 to 1080p/24 Torino/Vixen as I think in the white papers I read this is possible.
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Post by dropzone7 on Feb 8, 2010 21:14:31 GMT -5
you got it! and a major shame that it can't process 480p/24 coming from the Oppo Bluerays as they can do this... Dan is this possible via firmware update to support this? Crap, really? I just noticed a few night ago while watching an old DVD that I was still sending 24p to my scaler. That would be a shame for that to be lost in the UMC-1. |
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Post by solidstate on Feb 8, 2010 21:15:49 GMT -5
Yeah you'll get the 24p through to display but it won't upscale it to 1080p I believe... As soon as the firmware/HDMI "controller" detects a 24p signal it goes to bypass mode automatically. Sucks *bleep* if you ask me!  |
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Post by solidstate on Feb 8, 2010 21:19:50 GMT -5
you got it! and a major shame that it can't process 480p/24 coming from the Oppo Bluerays as they can do this... Dan is this possible via firmware update to support this? Crap, really? I just noticed a few night ago while watching an old DVD that I was still sending 24p to my scaler. That would be a shame for that to be lost in the UMC-1. Not in your case as you have an outboard scaler that can process 480p/24 to 1080p/24 (can VP50 do this?) and the software decision on the UMC-1 was if it sees 24p it goes automatically to passthrough mode. This is only the case using UMC-1 as scaler with oppo sending 480p/24 dvd signal straight into it. I was really hoping it could upscale 480p/24 transport from an Oppo blueray!!! I'm actually saddened by this as I'll have to have it set to 30p and have complex cadence processing going on in the display as well as transport. Analogous to a bunch of DAC ADC DAC again BS in audio processing. I really thought for the first time we'd have a working pre/processor that could actually work with a 480p/24 source in terms of upscaling. Fact the Oppo can output this NATIVE data on most movie DVDs was a god send and I really thought we'd have a first.SUCKS! EMO work your Torino implementation to support this PLEASE WITH SUGAR ON TOP! or perhaps Anchor Bay has a better solution in the oppo and the UMC-1 is a waste of time in this regard. You guys should hire/consult oppo in cali to work on your video section next time as they seem to be able to work with these video processors better than just about anyone around in terms of implementation. |
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Post by Dan Laufman on Feb 8, 2010 21:43:10 GMT -5
480p 24fps...?? You're killing me!  At 480p, you've got much bigger video issues than frame rate. Again, especially on 480p source material, let the Vixen SW do it's magic. It's had many, many, thousands of development hours spent on it to give you the best possible image quality when up converting. Trust me, you'll like it. Big Dan |
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Post by dropzone7 on Feb 8, 2010 21:50:05 GMT -5
Dan, I really just want more pretty blue lights. I don't care if it just has composite video inputs and stereo audio, charge me double so I can hurry up and replace my Onkyo and have all Emotiva! Muuhahaha!
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Post by solidstate on Feb 8, 2010 21:50:32 GMT -5
Hey BIG DAN!! I hear your heading out to China AGAIN! LOL Enjoy the food  (really joking here as when your there you don't know if your eating monkey balls or WORSE half the time... it's actually SCARY some of the stuff they eat over there!) Am I correct in saying though if UMC-1 detects 24p HDMI source it automatically goes into passthrough mode thus not upscaling the perfect, virgin, unmolested oppo dvd decode and 480p/24 HDMI transport on a movie DVD ? Why process 30 frames when you can process 24 frames? Isn't the display best to take a 24p signal and work it to 120hz or 240hz raster? Also the guys working on the video processing on the TV assume 60fps source is video not film and most won't read the film flag in my experience or it reads it srewy and cadence processing is affected negatively. |
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Post by solidstate on Feb 8, 2010 21:54:27 GMT -5
480p 24fps...?? You're killing me! At 480p, you've got much bigger video issues than frame rate. Again, especially on 480p source material, let the Vixen SW do it's magic. It's had many, many, thousands of development hours spent on it to give you the best possible image quality when up converting. Trust me, you'll like it. Big Dan Yeah but Dan it's gunna send DVD out to display at 60fps in your implementation. Why not let transport pull the progressive 24p from the MPEG2 interlaced DVD stream (it's not just oppo anymore either as I've seen recent firmwares add this to even the cheap $200 buck Sony bluerays) and do all scaling/processing in 24p at Vixen and pass it out at 24p. It would result in a better image no? Technically speaking? and would this not be ideal for the TV to process into 120/240Hz 5:5 raster/refresh and also not be as hard on the Torino core in terms of processing as it's working with 6 frames less a second? PS I seriously do appreciate the hours and hours of time put into Vixen but you guys missed the mark on the 480p/24 upscaling as white paper shows it's possible with what your working with IMHO PSS if your guys work on firmware tweaking for the lifecycle you'll add it |
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Post by solidstate on Feb 8, 2010 22:20:27 GMT -5
I guess telling vixen to toss the extra 6 interpolated frames, then process and upscale and finally output at 1080p/24 would be best for DVD FILM content using the engine your using. Then if the transport couldn't support 480p/24 HDMI it would still process it properly. Please add this in future firmwares for us 120/240Hz 5:5 display users. Don't leave it in the hands of the TV's EEs to read film flag and do 5:5 properly. The "stream" is nuts then... add frames... toss frames and add frames again... silly and doesn't make sense on a technical level really does it Dan!
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Post by mlkmgr on Feb 9, 2010 10:38:02 GMT -5
so how does the scaling compare to Reon HQV? i am curious as i have been holding on to my XA-2 HD-DVD player forever for standard dvds. if the scaling is on par with Reon, then the XA-2 could hit the chopping block. anyone...? |
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Post by solidstate on Feb 9, 2010 12:30:57 GMT -5
I would be surprised if it's as good.
It's important to note though that a lot of the options regarding video processing isn't adjustable by the user so it depends on how they implemented it. If it's poor and the REON processing options are set in a way that don't result in a good picture then UMC-1 could be better.
On paper though the REON is more powerful and can do a bit more to the image/frames though I don't know much about "Vixen".
Implementation is 9 tenths of the battle.
Just look at Oppo... they use the same scaler chips as other manufacturers yet their's results generally with better picture using the same ICs. It's because they did the homework of actually checking what options result in what image and decided from there what processing options at what levels to implement.
Emo did put many thousands of man hours into the video section of the unit so it just might be better. I don't know until I get one and run tests on it.
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Post by loopinfool on Feb 9, 2010 17:55:31 GMT -5
At one point I was under the impression (reading Audioholics duh!) that if you set the player to 480i out that the progressive frames in the interlaced MPEG2 stream would be recoverable at the end of a TDMS signal but this isn't the case (Audioholics an MPEG2 stream and a TDMS signal are apples and oranges). Only way for it to work is at the player/transport pulling the progressive 24p out of the interlaced MPEG2 stream at the decode level. Total shame Emo didn't allow 480p/24 to 1080p/24 Torino/Vixen as I think in the white papers I read this is possible. Sorry, solidstate, but here you're wrong. My display (Pioneer KRP-500M) properly detects the 3:2 cadence from 480i sources (and 1080i, too), converts it internally to 24p, and triples the frames to 72Hz (often called 3:3 processing). Movie credits look wonderful now! ;D It's generally better to do it at the decode level, but it's not impossible to do it downstream. Also, most people believe the ABT scaler in the Oppo BDP-83 is better than any other integrated scaler. Sticking with 1080p24 out of the Oppo is almost certainly better than your less-standard 480p24 concept. My big dilemma down the road will be whether to skip the ABT and get a cheaper Oppo BDP-80. - LoopinFool |
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Post by loopinfool on Feb 9, 2010 18:05:11 GMT -5
A point to remember and one that that has been mentioned by others too, not all displays will handle 1080p 24 fps "natively"; that is they will accept the input signal at that resolution and frame rate, but once inside the box, they do what they like. So, you may think you are viewing 24 fps, but in many cases it is being bumped to 60Hz. You will need to make sure you display is truly 24 fps capable. Dan, This is oh-so-true. Since the video settings are global, you could make us "video purists" very happy by adding just one more toggle option to the video setting screen: Always pass-through 24p For people with sets that do handle 24p properly (more and more every day!), there's no correct setting other than pass-through for 24p sources. Since the settings are global, we then don't get to experience the great video processing in the UMC-1 for other resolutions. - LoopinFool |
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markd
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Posts: 182
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Post by markd on Feb 9, 2010 19:46:13 GMT -5
This is oh-so-true. Since the video settings are global, you could make us "video purists" very happy by adding just one more toggle option to the video setting screen: Always pass-through 24p For people with sets that do handle 24p properly (more and more every day!), there's no correct setting other than pass-through for 24p sources. Since the settings are global, we then don't get to experience the great video processing in the UMC-1 for other resolutions. - LoopinFool Seconded!! |
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Post by pmd918 on Feb 9, 2010 23:53:44 GMT -5
This is oh-so-true. Since the video settings are global, you could make us "video purists" very happy by adding just one more toggle option to the video setting screen: Always pass-through 24p For people with sets that do handle 24p properly (more and more every day!), there's no correct setting other than pass-through for 24p sources. Since the settings are global, we then don't get to experience the great video processing in the UMC-1 for other resolutions. - LoopinFool Seconded!! Thirded |
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Feb 10, 2010 6:04:38 GMT -5
Ad infinitum? |
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Eskimo
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Posts: 399
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Post by Eskimo on Feb 13, 2010 0:21:32 GMT -5
Fourth-ed (My projector has a setting to help with judder that only really works well when receiving 24fps video) |
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At 480p, you've got much bigger video issues than frame rate.
(really joking here as when your there you don't know if your eating monkey balls or WORSE half the time... it's actually SCARY some of the stuff they eat over there!)
