hemster
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Post by hemster on Feb 12, 2010 12:04:20 GMT -5
Would it also not depend on the composition of body mass.. i.e. what you've been eating and drinking? Thought so! In conclusion, to minimize absorption, I recommend abstinence from food and overindulgence of drink...
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 12, 2010 12:13:16 GMT -5
Would it also not depend on the composition of body mass.. i.e. what you've been eating and drinking? Thought so! In conclusion, to minimize absorption, I recommend abstinence from food and overindulgence of drink... It depends on what frequency band you are trying to control. Higher thickness of less density (higher liquidus mass) is generally more effective in lower frequency bands, while less thick higher density (higher percentage of solids) will be more effective at higher frequency bands. So perhaps the best compromise solution is to add both Jack Sprat and his wife to the room or to have them stand at first reflection points... |
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Post by johnnyg on Feb 12, 2010 12:14:12 GMT -5
After watching the excellent videos by Dan and Lonnie, I ran EmoQ for the first time and here is my experience.
Polarities - EmoQ told me all were correct except the left. I tried a few different mic positions and each time it reported all three fronts were reversed. YPAO on my Yamaha said all were correct, so I didn't change any wiring.
Crossovers - EmoQ set the crossovers for all three fronts at 250Hz. This is ridiculous - my mains go down to 35Hz. I ended up setting all crossovers manually according to the speaker specs.
Distances - Most distances were really good. The sub distance was about 4 feet larger than reality, but that doesn't surprise me. The Descent fires in multiple directions and it is placed in a corner. I matched the mains to each other (differed by 0.2 ft) and set the sub.
Speaker EQ - When these tones started I noticed that the sub tone was noticeably less powerful than the other speaker tones. This was not the case in the distance/crossover tones where it really rattled the house, now it was rather weak in comparison.
The speaker equalization looked very good. Surprisingly good in fact. The only tweak I made was to cut some of the boost that was below the known cutoff for the speakers (above for the sub).
I did note that there is a speaker EQ curve set for Back Right which I don't have, and nothing set for Surround Left which I do have. I think these are simply mislabeled.
After applying the EQ curve to my sources I immediately noticed the sub was too hot. I've heard others report this, but didn't realize that by hot they meant HOT!!! I like to run my sub hot - I turned it up about 4db after running Yamaha YPAO in the past. But now I had to cut it by 12db to get back to a similar level. I wonder, could this be due to the sub EQ test tone being significantly less powerful than the speaker test tones?
Next I noticed how much smoother the sound was. Two areas were significantly improved.
1. The bass response has been smoothed out tremendously. In the opening music of Burn Notice, for example, there is a bass slide that used to have a dip in volume in the middle with a loud finish. Now it is perfectly smooth top to bottom. The difference is obvious.
2. The crossovers in the front three speakers completely disappear. Probably the weakest point of my (otherwise outstanding) mains is that someone with a good ear can notice a very slight dip at the crossover point (I believe ML fixed this with the "i" version but I'm too cheap to spring for the upgrade). It is now completely gone.
Ultimately, I think EmoQ needs some refinement to get it working reliably in non-ideal rooms. However, after a fair bit of manual intervention, the results are nothing short of phenomenal.
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 12, 2010 12:25:44 GMT -5
Would it also not depend on the composition of body mass.. i.e. what you've been eating and drinking? Thought so! In conclusion, to minimize absorption, I recommend abstinence from food and overindulgence of drink... So perhaps Lonnie can comment on how much weight we can put on or take off before Emo-Q needs to be run again. Or can there be a firmware update to add a feature that automatically measures body mass and then adjusts for it in the settings? |
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Post by loopinfool on Feb 12, 2010 13:38:57 GMT -5
Is there any way to get the Emo-Q videos from Dan and Lonnie in a .flv format for downloading? Someone did this for the first video by Dan. Download the orbit download manager from download.com. Then use the Grab++ utility available from the tools menu of orbit. load the emoq pages, and the emoq .FLV files will show up as available for download in Grab++, select them, and download and they will download via orbit. They are about 50MB each. That's pretty much what I did, but I used the "GetIt" button Orbit provides. So you don't all need to install a download manager, here are the URLs for these two videos: Dan's demo: emotiva.com/video/EMOQ_Guide.flvLonnie's tech talk: emotiva.com/video/emoq2.flvDann, could you perhaps add a "download" link on those video pages, so people can right-click save them for later viewing? - LoopinFool |
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Post by jmilton on Feb 14, 2010 9:36:53 GMT -5
You calling me fat?
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Post by snodog on Feb 14, 2010 13:05:24 GMT -5
Why cant people just use their damn SPL meters if this is such a headache for some? Seriously Im sure a lot of people have them and wont be happy unless they have complete control over the settings anyway. I understand that it should work properly but obviously there needs to be some adjustments made. I just dont get why its such a major issue, set it up manually.
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Chris
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Post by Chris on Feb 14, 2010 13:54:38 GMT -5
Why cant people just use their damn SPL meters if this is such a headache for some? set it up manually. I agree completely. "Auto-EQ?... We don't need no... stinkin' auto-eq!" I use SPL Meter for the iPhone on my 2nd gen iPod Touch with exteranl thumb tack mic. It's 99 cents in the iTunes store. Read details here: www.studiosixdigital.com/spl_meter.html -CB |
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RPA-1 man
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Post by RPA-1 man on Feb 14, 2010 14:00:17 GMT -5
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RPA-1 man
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Post by RPA-1 man on Feb 14, 2010 14:03:27 GMT -5
I have the perfect solution to all the issues. Everybody go 2 channel. Just kidding. I have complete faith that the issues will be resolved. Emotiva is all about the customer.  |
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ratmice
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Post by ratmice on Feb 14, 2010 14:15:53 GMT -5
Why cant people just use their damn SPL meters if this is such a headache for some? Seriously Im sure a lot of people have them and wont be happy unless they have complete control over the settings anyway. I understand that it should work properly but obviously there needs to be some adjustments made. I just dont get why its such a major issue, set it up manually. 1. it's an advertised feature of the unit. 2. we can all set up the speaker distance and trims with the SPL, but try fixing the EQ curves with one is not so easy. Have to do all 5 speakers throughout the range of frequencies, then take into account the interactions between the speakers. Too much of a hassle. 3. If one part of the process is screwed up, why should we assume the other part is working right? 4. If your "sound" is off which speakers are responsible, which of the 55/66/77 EQ bands do you need to adjust to fix it? 5. Time to tweak, as opposed to 3 minutes for auto-EQ. Im sure we could come up with others... |
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Post by snodog on Feb 14, 2010 14:20:57 GMT -5
Yeah I see what you are saying with the curves. Is it possible in some cases that the mic isnt working right? I have heard they are pretty cheaply made, not sure if it would be worth trying another one or if the program is specifically calibrated to work with only the one.
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ratmice
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Post by ratmice on Feb 14, 2010 14:30:24 GMT -5
Yeah I see what you are saying with the curves. Is it possible in some cases that the mic isnt working right? I have heard they are pretty cheaply made, not sure if it would be worth trying another one or if the program is specifically calibrated to work with only the one. Because the freq. response of the mics is not flat, there has to be a stored calibration file in order to use them. You cannot just switch out a Pioneer calib, mic, for instance. |
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Post by pglover19 on Feb 14, 2010 16:03:11 GMT -5
Why cant people just use their damn SPL meters if this is such a headache for some? set it up manually. I agree completely. "Auto-EQ?... We don't need no... stinkin' auto-eq!" I use SPL Meter for the iPhone on my 2nd gen iPod Touch with exteranl thumb tack mic. It's 99 cents in the iTunes store. Read details here: www.studiosixdigital.com/spl_meter.html-CB I am a newbie as it relates to using the SPL meter to manually calibrate my speakers. Can someone please explain how I would use this Iphone SPL meter to calibrate my speakers using the UMC-1 unit... Please be specific and walk me through the menu system in the UMC-1. |
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lonnie
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Post by lonnie on Feb 14, 2010 16:04:38 GMT -5
Recent observations have led to new revelations.
Over the past few days I have come to realize that the other companies who make auto-room correction systems are right about one thing. With all the other systems I have seen, it runs and if you like it, you use, if not, you don't. You can't see or change any of the results that it came up with. It now makes perfect since to me why they did this. At first I thought it would be great to open up the system to the public and let them tailor their systems. But I now see that I wrong about this and will remember for future models and software versions. Sometimes, what looks like a great idea turns out not to be.
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Feb 14, 2010 16:11:24 GMT -5
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Post by Nemesis.ie on Feb 14, 2010 16:14:04 GMT -5
Recent observations have led to new revelations. Over the past few days I have come to realize that the other companies who make auto-room correction systems are right about one thing. With all the other systems I have seen, it runs and if you like it, you use, if not, you don't. You can't see or change any of the results that it came up with. It now makes perfect since to me why they did this. At first I thought it would be great to open up the system to the public and let them tailor their systems. But I now see that I wrong about this and will remember for future models and software versions. Sometimes, what looks like a great idea turns out not to be. My Yamaha YPAO shows you a graphic result for each channel and you can go in and edit it (full PEQ options). So some of them do "air their laundry". I think it is GREAT to be able to see what the system did, this is not wrong at all. I also noticed that after placing the mic in a "less confined" (i.e. further away from the chair back) position and using "natural" EQ instead of flat, all the "sharp" corrections are gone and the sounds is MASSIVELY better. This is really nice to be able to see/compare. If you can see big corrections you can look for problems/room corrections and/or experiment. So Lonnie, please have a rethink and if anything give us MORE options for calibration. A REW calibration file for the mic that ships with the UMC-1 would be great if there is not enough room/time to have it on-board. |
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Post by agehring on Feb 14, 2010 16:16:28 GMT -5
Recent observations have led to new revelations. Clipped... Lonnie, Sorry, I disagree with your final assessment, while I haven't used Emo-Q yet, I personally look forward to it's guidance. Personally, I'm a very technical guy, and understand the limitation of "tools" such as these, and realize that they are meant as guidance. It's like the cases at work were my co-workers call support and expect them to "do their job for them", rather than ask for guidance because something doesn't make sense. I believe what you "have" is the correct approach... I've come to accept that you can’t make everyone happy — and I know that it’s alright, because nobody expects you to. When you put yourself out there for the world to see, there will undoubtedly be people who will disagree with you. You’ll upset people, make them angry, and once you do, they’ll do their best to boo you off stage. Don’t let them succeed in doing so. Let go of the idea that you can make everyone happy, and focus on making yourself happy. That is something you can control. It’s up to everybody else to decide whether or not they want to be happy along with you... Just my $.02... |
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lonnie
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Post by lonnie on Feb 14, 2010 16:29:34 GMT -5
What makes me wonder about opening up features like this and others like Mosquito noise reduction and block noise are some statements I have read. In one post the claim the EQs are all over the place, the crossovers are wrong, etc and in a different post something like but I don't know how to set these. I won't say what, but this tells me a lot.
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Post by Nodscene on Feb 14, 2010 16:45:04 GMT -5
I have to agree with agehring, please don't dumb down the system and be like every other manufacturer out there. There is just way too much variability when it comes to peoples homes, speakers, layout, and most importantly microphone position that there will always be people complaining about it not working the way they think it's going to. I came to Emotiva because you are a different company, and offer products for the audiophile. And not just the rich ones either Plus, do you really think that if you took away these options people will stop bitching or having problems? Of course not. I'm dying to get my hands on this unit. There is absolutely nothing being offered right now that even comes close to the UMC-1 considering it's price. I would be extremely disappointed if features were removed. Finally, I couldn't have written this better myself..... "Don’t let them succeed in doing so. Let go of the idea that you can make everyone happy, and focus on making yourself happy. That is something you can control. It’s up to everybody else to decide whether or not they want to be happy along with you..." |
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