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Post by Mike Ronesia on Feb 14, 2010 21:41:10 GMT -5
PS
All of my Emotiva gear works as advertised or better so thank you!
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Post by snodog on Feb 14, 2010 21:44:45 GMT -5
I agree Dan, you guys know how many units you have sold vs the number of legitimate complaints which I am sure is very low. I actually never really intended on being on this board too long but over time it has been very useful. I think when I get my UMC (tomorrow yay!) and get it all set up I probably wont be on much at all, due to time and such too. Im sure lots of people have never even opened the forum up.
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Post by Mike Ronesia on Feb 14, 2010 21:46:12 GMT -5
So I think it is important to consider what features should be open by not only what they do, but by what the ramifications of such a feature can do. That's all. Yep, understood. So once again, the whiners dictate the necessity to dumb down the product. Here's a thought: I would pay extra for FW with the extra functionality. Give the masses their 'safe' versions of the products.....and offer an extended feature set for those who are actually capable of a bit of independent thought. These 'geek versions' need'nt even be 'supported'.....just give us some tools to work with if we choose. R That's an idea, but I think it still goes back to Lonnie's point about marketing. Someone thinks their a geek god and then they can't figure it out so they go online and rant. How many lost sales does that equate to for people that don't do enough home work. If we want the great toys at great prices they need to sell as many as they can. |
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Lonnie
Emo Staff 
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Post by Lonnie on Feb 14, 2010 21:47:43 GMT -5
Trust me when I say their silence speaks volumes as to how happy they are, to me. Most people should know how to interpret the INTERNET and forums to figure out if products have issues or if a hand full of people have issues. I do a lot more reading then posting but can tell your products are top notch and there are a few squeaky wheels that want grease. I get that, and appreciate your support. Sometimes, though, it's a bit exasperating to see so many frustrated posts and realize that the world is reading them, irregardless of everything else. People love sensationalism. All things said, though...we are doing well, and people are voting with their wallets, every day, all over the world.  |
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RSavage
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Post by RSavage on Feb 14, 2010 21:59:19 GMT -5
That's an idea, but I think it still goes back to Lonnie's point about marketing. Someone thinks their a geek god and then they can't figure it out so they go online and rant. How many lost sales does that equate to for people that don't do enough home work. If we want the great toys at great prices they need to sell as many as they can. Sorry....I forgot it's 2010....the whiners are running the world. As far as 'selling as many as they can'....I guess it's all about defining your market. If you want to saturate the Walmart market, then you have to produce an idiot proof product. I was, obviously mistakenly, of the thought that this was a hobby that leaned toward those with at least half a brain and the ability to use it. Silly me. I really appreciate Lonnie's idea of producing a top quality product with cutting edge functionality at a reasonable price. I guess he and I are both wrong....bring on the crap. R |
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Post by velo on Feb 14, 2010 22:04:48 GMT -5
Ah Dann. Dann. Dann. Dann. ;D I will just add that tomorrow I will entrust my beloved UMC to the Fedex folks so it can travel back to you for its update (since I only have access to a Mac computer). Currently listening to B.B. King in stereo bliss. That UMC makes some sweet music! Well, B.B. did. Man, I miss my UMC already. And I haven't even unhooked it yet. Please treat it nicely, don't yell at it, don't scratch it or anything. Am looking forward to the update, but I have to tell you I watched and listened to Ray and The Soloist and loved it as is already. So be nice to it and get it back home safely soon.  Okay. Too much drivel perhaps. Just couldn't help myself. |
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Feb 14, 2010 22:07:23 GMT -5
Ah Dann. Dann. Dann. Dann. ;D I will just add that tomorrow I will entrust my beloved UMC to the Fedex folks so it can travel back to you for its update (since I only have access to a Mac computer). Currently listening to B.B. King in stereo bliss. That UMC makes some sweet music! Well, B.B. did. Man, I miss my UMC already. And I haven't even unhooked it yet. Please treat it nicely, don't yell at it, don't scratch it or anything. Am looking forward to the update, but I have to tell you I watched and listened to Ray and The Soloist and loved it as is already. So be nice to it and get it back home safely soon. Okay. Too much drivel perhaps. Just couldn't help myself. It will be treated with the utmost care... |
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Post by Mike Ronesia on Feb 14, 2010 22:10:35 GMT -5
I'm not against having things that are fully enabled, I just can see where Lonnie's thought process is at. I know people that think because I run Audyssey I'm way to into tweaking my system. The problem is at the current price points Emotiva has, it opens the door to a whole new set of buyers that would not look at a $1500 pre-pro and don't want to fine tune their own system. They are potential customers that you don't want to loose if you don't have to.
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Post by roadrunner on Feb 14, 2010 22:30:20 GMT -5
Lonnie
I have to agree with those who just posted about not giving in to dumbing down the Emo-Q feature. Opening up what goes on behind the "curtain" will cause some users to panic, initially, but hiding it will not stop the complaints. All you have to do is surf the forums and read the comments the other room correction software gets. All of the "dumbed down" packages get the same kind of complaints about the software doesn't work right or it sounds better to just turn it off. Hiding all the results from the end-user does not prevent the flood of negative comments... not by a long shot.
I believe that most of us would rather have access to this information so that we can take steps to correct the problems with our rooms. You would only be denying us the tools to tweak the problem areas. The complaining will continue no matter what you do. I truly believe "fear of the unknown" is the root problem here. Perhaps, the best solution is to educate the end-user to understand the value of this data and document how to USE the powerful tools you have built into the system. This would put the UMC-1 in greater demand once people find out about the numerous advanced tools inherent in its design.
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Post by moe on Feb 14, 2010 22:40:15 GMT -5
I'm not against having things that are fully enabled, I just can see where Lonnie's thought process is at.The problem is at the current price points Emotiva has, it opens the door to a whole new set of buyers that would not look at a $1500 pre-pro and don't want to fine tune their own system. They are potential customers that you don't want to loose if you don't have to. That's a fact,I think if some could get past all that and just listen,how could you not be sold.In the past many of us have spent 1/2/3+ $k and never had such options,not to mention comparable audio quality. That said,I do try to understand the flustration as I know Emotiva does.This is kinda unchartered waters,cutting edge at rock bottom prices.Please keep in mind if they charged $2295 they would have a much bigger budget to try and solve every possible issue imaginable,although noone else has at any price.But they don't,I consider that an honest effort.I'd say many of the other big boys don't care if you have hifi or not,unless you pay dearly and prolly don't like being squeezed. Emotiva is changing the market to our(the buyers)advantage,I can't help but support such a symbiotic effort.I'm no "fanboy" just a regular fan,thanks Emotiva. |
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Post by 2infinity on Feb 14, 2010 23:20:29 GMT -5
Recent observations have led to new revelations. Over the past few days I have come to realize that the other companies who make auto-room correction systems are right about one thing. With all the other systems I have seen, it runs and if you like it, you use, if not, you don't. You can't see or change any of the results that it came up with. It now makes perfect since to me why they did this. At first I thought it would be great to open up the system to the public and let them tailor their systems. But I now see that I wrong about this and will remember for future models and software versions. Sometimes, what looks like a great idea turns out not to be. Lonnie, Please do not take all these folks to heart. More than half of them piss me off with "do this do that" on the remote to a bunch of other whiney behaviors with "if it just had this" Enough already! Please make this product the way you want to, and let all the other stuff roll off to file 13! I do think some of the commentary has been healthy but not for the most part. I for the life of me cannot figure the emphasis on ideas to design the product versus getting it stable. Let's use it for what it offers and then roll-out a nice-to-have thread in the second generation sometime later but for Pete's sake not now! I really think folks should spend time trying to understand the technology versus making assumptions that they have not qualified. Please everyone keep your comments civil, think it through a bit and use more of a learning approach where you qualify your concern in more of a question than a critical lob. I have been ignoring all the drivel until now but now it is having an affect on Lonnie's perspectives which is very dangerous for me as I do not think all the gibberish has been warranted or qualified! Please make your product to your vision, apply continuous improvement on the software and we will all be fine! Please keep the innovation going! It is very much appreciated! Your the only one we want driving the mother ship! Lonnie, I could not AGREE MORE that the amount that I do with stickandstones! PLEASE IGNORE the rampant whining by a few! The main reason I come to the forums and continue to purchase Emo gear is the openness of the company with its customers. This is obviously reflected in your design! Please keep up the good work in this area and please ignore the naysayers! I for one am ignoring them! chris |
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Post by snodog on Feb 14, 2010 23:21:13 GMT -5
Well like an old teacher once mentioned to me that if you give everyone a piece of pie and nine people like it but one doesnt you will most likely take notice to the one who doesnt. It will always be mixed but so long as there are more positives than negatives its simple math and majority of the crowd are happy and the labors of your hard work dont go unnoticed.
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Post by 2infinity on Feb 14, 2010 23:28:35 GMT -5
Because of my excitement about getting my UMC and because I have not yet gotten it, I have read a lot of threads/posts that I normally know better than to waste my time with. It has actually been a useful learning experience! I have always known to be suspicious of anything I read on forums since the source is unknown. My opinion has gone way on down, all the way to the bottom, of people who have negative things to say about products. I will come out and say it. People who start off with forum complaints are idiots. The first evidence of this is that they ask for help in the wrong places. It is easier to sit down and pound a keyboard than to try to learn and think on their own. In the case of Emotiva a phone call gets an explanation from the very guy who designed the machine. But nooo! Sheesh. Lonnie, Please, never make decisions about anything based on what you read in forums. Not even if it is your own forum! Jeb Many, many, perfectly happy customers never post on the forum. They are just not interested. A lot of forum people don't believe this, because they are passionate about online communities, and do not understand anything else. It would be nice to hear alittle more from content customers. Dann, I will definitely be posting my observations when I get mine tomorrow! Having been in customer service for years and the academic community for a while now I can say a few things with crystal clear accuracy: Its largely the satisfied who don't fill out CS surveys or go to forums! You will find results weighted, quite unbalanced, towards the negative end, with some positive! So I agree with Mike. The silence in this case speaks louder than words. If the majority of UMC-1 owners were dissatisfied, YOU WOULD KNOW IT! They would call or post. Hope this brings a little sunshine into your V-day and I hope you, Lonnie, Big Dan and company got to enjoy the day with someone special! Chris |
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Post by 2infinity on Feb 14, 2010 23:34:40 GMT -5
Trust me when I say their silence speaks volumes as to how happy they are, to me. Most people should know how to interpret the INTERNET and forums to figure out if products have issues or if a hand full of people have issues. I do a lot more reading then posting but can tell your products are top notch and there are a few squeaky wheels that want grease. I get that, and appreciate your support. Sometimes, though, it's a bit exasperating to see so many frustrated posts and realize that the world is reading them, irregardless of everything else. People love sensationalism. All things said, though...we are doing well, and people are voting with their wallets, every day, all over the world. Please hang in there Dann! I know how you feel, there are websites where students can go and make comments good/bad about us for everyone to read without any real oversight. It is a bit disconcerting to think that bad posts are ready by many! Just know that many of us (myself especially) have tried to stay out of the fray and flaming and thus we aren't posting in these threads as much. I will be posting more often once I get mine tomorrow! You guys all got a round coming from this guy come EmoFest! |
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Lonnie
Emo Staff
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Post by Lonnie on Feb 14, 2010 23:39:15 GMT -5
I get that, and appreciate your support. Sometimes, though, it's a bit exasperating to see so many frustrated posts and realize that the world is reading them, irregardless of everything else. People love sensationalism. All things said, though...we are doing well, and people are voting with their wallets, every day, all over the world. Please hang in there Dann! I know how you feel, there are websites where students can go and make comments good/bad about us for everyone to read without any real oversight. It is a bit disconcerting to think that bad posts are ready by many! Just know that many of us (myself especially) have tried to stay out of the fray and flaming and thus we aren't posting in these threads as much. I will be posting more often once I get mine tomorrow! You guys all got a round coming from this guy come EmoFest! We have people who call the office so many times that they have begun to give aliases instead of their real names...  |
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Post by snodog on Feb 14, 2010 23:44:11 GMT -5
Dont they provide the beer at Emofest? Might not be helping then if so, how about an aged bottle of wine.
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Post by 2infinity on Feb 14, 2010 23:44:48 GMT -5
Please hang in there Dann! I know how you feel, there are websites where students can go and make comments good/bad about us for everyone to read without any real oversight. It is a bit disconcerting to think that bad posts are ready by many! Just know that many of us (myself especially) have tried to stay out of the fray and flaming and thus we aren't posting in these threads as much. I will be posting more often once I get mine tomorrow! You guys all got a round coming from this guy come EmoFest! We have people who call the office so many times that they have begun to give aliases instead of their real names... Man that sucks! Sounds like some people need to man up (e.g. not use aliases)! I really don't envy you guys or your jobs as they require a lot of patience. At least with my student's if the they don't like their grade etc I can say TOUGH SH**! I know for a fact my patience level has grown leaps and bounds since I had my little guy 2yrs ago, but even now I am not sure I could keep a smile on my face and a happy tone with some of what you deal with day in and day out! I guess that means you guys are/or would be great parents! |
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Post by 2infinity on Feb 14, 2010 23:47:10 GMT -5
Dont they provide the beer at Emofest? Might not be helping then if so, how about an aged bottle of wine. Actually I am pretty sure I promised Dann a round of John Powers Irish Whiskey next year! Might be two rounds since I didn't make it last year and given his patience in the forum with us yahoos And Big Dan & Lonnie, I got you a round too! |
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Post by paintedklown on Feb 15, 2010 0:01:58 GMT -5
To the Emotiva staff. First I want to say thanks for offering audiophile products that the average guy can afford. Seriously, it is very much appreciated. I NEVER thought I would be able to buy "real, serious, audiophile gear" until I discovered your company. Now I am planning a 2 channel music system AND a 7.1 HT system around your gear. I am on the pre-order list for a UMC-1 and and have been reading every little post in regards to the performance of this product. Admittedly, I had become a bit disheartened at all the negative posts. I do not own an spl meter, I am not sure how to use one. I do not own a real time analyzer, I wouldn't know how to use it either.  For a user such as myself, the EMO Q is VERY important and it working properly is a must for me. Having said that, I watched the videos and I loved them. They have taken away any doubt that may have been in my head regarding what EMO Q is capable of, and it's accuracy. They have also "re-fueled" my excitement for this product. The level of "tweak-ability" is amazing and I would be sad to see it taken away/removed. While I am not a "master tweaker" I do know what I like. I am sure with enough playing around I (or anyone) can manually adjust what I feel needs corrected and leave the rest where it sits. Having a great starting point (and finishing point if you so choose) with this much tweak-ability is priceless and I cannot express enough how happy I am to see this feature.  The video with Lonnie, explaining HOW the EMO Q works was quite informative and exciting to see. I thought it was interesting why it picked the x-over points it did (and I thought it was quite logical in its reasoning) and the fact the EQ settings try to make your sound flat is very exciting to me indeed. ;D Well, enough rambling from me. Thanks again, and I am even more excited about my turn to fire one of these up in my own house! |
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Post by zductive on Feb 15, 2010 0:33:06 GMT -5
I find it amazing and yes just a little bit insulting when a person is called a whiner for asking that something work the way that it was advertised. This forum is known for that and I see it happening in this thread.
There are a few problems in the UMC-1. There is no pipeline for anyone to send in deficiency reports. Therefore, people talk about it on the forums.
I have found that EMO-Q doesn't work very well for my situation. Also, I am trying to make the best of it and use the equalization to make the unit work to the best of its capabilities.
1 - I find that the speaker calibration has either a feature or a bug. When I return to speaker calibration to verify my levels after making other changes to my setup, The speaker level is frequently at least 10 dB louder than it should be when I first go to a channel. Pressing the down button once causes the level to change downward about 10 dB and from that point, I set the level. Which level is really being used by the UMC? Is it the level that I set after I press the down arrow or is it really the much higher value? BTW - calibration values are now placed into the speaker level page so there is no possibility that the previous values were not saved correctly by the operator.
2 - I lose audio if I tell the Directv HR21-100 to fast forward a few times or skip forward several times. To get the unit to work, I must change inputs and then return to the original input.
3 - I have a signal generator that I would like to be able to input into one channel at a time. With the signal generator, I could use a sound pressure meter to adjust the equalization filters. Unfortunately, (from what I have been able to determine), it does not appear possible to send the signal through the 7.1 inputs with bass management enabled. Therefore, it is impossible to set the low end equalization filters. If I author or if Avia has the correct test tones, I can probably work around this problem.
4 - The fact that EMO-Q has problems is not a surprise. It will not work for everyone. With the problems that we seem to be experiencing, (lack of repeatability), it is difficult to accept that I should rewire my speakers based on its results. At a minimum, I want to verify that is correct. The fact that EMO-Q works in your theater is meaningless. If it does not work in the customer's facility, the customer has more options than just returning the unit. The customer has the expectation that the company will provide additional detail that can be used in debugging the problem. Your videos are a great start. Regarding dumbing down the unit: that would be rather foolish. Without equalization, I could have been happy with the LMC-1. Instead, can we develop a profile that can help us to understand under what conditions EMO-Q will not work. I am not talking about a couple of dB problem. My problems are at least 15 dB error in setting the bass. The speaker distance is actually set pretty close to the expected value. Possibly, the problem is caused by lip sync values. Has that been investigated? That is the type of help that would be of use.
5 - Couldn't the FFT results by EMO-Q be made available on-screen. Your FFT info is all that an engineer needs to correctly set up the unit.
Again - except for the comments about whiners that I believe the management should stop, the above items are not open for debate. If there is a version of firmware in the works that will address any of the above, it would be nice for us to hear about it.
Sorry for hijacking the thread. It just seems that this is the thread that management is reading.
Z
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For a user such as myself, the EMO Q is VERY important and it working properly is a must for me. 
