lonnie
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GM
OZ- 'Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain'
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Post by lonnie on Feb 22, 2010 10:43:58 GMT -5
I apologize if it came across as if I was mocking you, that was not the intent, it was intended as a joke. Our forum has always been a place to come and have a good time. Your post was very matter of fact and I was just throwing in some hummor to lighten things up. I am sorry if it was not recieved well but relax, this hobby is supose to be fun.  Sorry that I was so matter-of-fact. I am just frustrated by other OEM's pre/pro's that don't work properly. I want EMO to set the bar above the others. I hope all the bugs get worked out soon. Keep up the good work!!! Thank you for your reply and understanding. We do try to set the bar, but sometimes we fall a little short in the beginning, but always rise the occasion. ;D Whatever issues remain, please rest assured we will take care of the customers and get them resolved. We have never turned our backs on anything or anyone. I will say that in recent testing we have found a couple of things that are in process of being resolved. Other reported issues are being looked into and if found to be real will also be resolved. I am not sure why, but there are a very vocal few who would lead you to believe the unit is full of bugs when this is clearly not true. I can honestly understand your position and respect it. To that end, perhaps waiting till I have had time to fully investigate all the accusations would be a prudent course of action. It is always our goal to give the customers the highest quality product that we can. ;D |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2010 10:52:35 GMT -5
Do you recall what you paid for that Krell amp, by any chance? Now, how about dividing that number by the troublefree hours of use? What's your time worth? Oh, I didn't think of it that way. $3600 for 22 years of trouble free use. Let's see, that's about 10 cents per hour (I have to confess, I did use my calculator). I guess that really is a great deal after all! ;D |
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lonnie
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GM
OZ- 'Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain'
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Post by lonnie on Feb 22, 2010 11:09:31 GMT -5
Why don't you save yourself the trouble and buy a Krell Oops, sorry, they have issues. Ummm, Integra, no, Denon maybe, no they also have issues. Hmmmm, Cary, oh sorry that one also has issues. Hmmmm I'm at a loss here. ;D ;D ;D I have a Krell KAV-250A amplifier. I should be upset because Krell initiated a consumer recall on this unit as a fire hazard. But, I'm not upset with Krell at all. Why? Because, Krell sent to me replacement fuses along with instructions to install them - eliminating the fire hazard. But, you know what Lonnie? They also sent me a check for $150 for my trouble (having to open the case to replace the four fuses). My Krell amp was manufactured in 1988. In 2010, I get a check for $150 to replace four fuses. And, my Krell has operated without any fault for the twenty-two years that I've owned it. About 3 years ago, my Krell remote died. I called them up (19 years later), and they send me overnight (Fed-EX) another one free-of-charge Don't even think Emotiva is in the same league as Krell. You guys haven't issued anyone a check for their trouble. Honestly that is exceptional customer service and I apploud them for that. Dan and I have spoken about this on a number of occasions and if everyone was willing to pay 5K for an amp, I woudl be happy to send them a new one whenever something popped up. As it is now, we make every effort to take care of the customers and still keep the price as a reasonable level. We put a lot of time and hard work into the products to make them something to be enjoyed for years to come. Our business model was set up to put the customers first and we work very hard to do that. But at certain price points I am sorry to say that we just can't please everyone (but we do try). ;D |
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Post by SteveB on Feb 22, 2010 11:20:39 GMT -5
I personally don't care if the UMC has a few minor issues. I called with my CC info this morning for mine. I can't wait for mine, bugs and all!! I've had a Yamaha RX-V2500 for about 6 years now. It has bugs and Yamaha hasn't issued a single firmware update to fix them. I'm happy to do firmware updates and know Emotiva is working on making the UMC the best it can be. Oppo has issued a hole bunch of firmware updates for the BDP-83. I haven't heard people complaining about them? Keep up the GREAT work Lonnie! I am one happy customer!
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 22, 2010 11:27:33 GMT -5
Thank you for your reply and understanding. We do try to set the bar, but sometimes we fall a little short in the beginning, but always rise the occasion. ;D Whatever issues remain, please rest assured we will take care of the customers and get them resolved. We have never turned our backs on anything or anyone. I will say that in recent testing we have found a couple of things that are in process of being resolved. Other reported issues are being looked into and if found to be real will also be resolved. I am not sure why, but there are a very vocal few who would lead you to believe the unit is full of bugs when this is clearly not true. I can honestly understand your position and respect it. To that end, perhaps waiting till I have had time to fully investigate all the accusations would be a prudent course of action. It is always our goal to give the customers the highest quality product that we can. ;D Question: on the updated remote that is in the works to fix the problem of the UMC-1 and USP-1 having the same codes, will this remote be able to control both units or will it control only the UMC-1? I tried out the UMC-1 this weekend and aside from a couple of things that have already been documented (duplicate remote codes and sub setting is too high), what I tried works like it is supposed to. I only went through the setup menu and also played some blu rays and dvd's through the system. So far, so good. But then I only have a Blu Ray player connected to the unit (the CD player is connected to the USP-1). I also haven't tried Emo-Q yet. I set all the levels using an SPL meter and entered the speaker distances and crossover frequencies manually. I intend to try out Emo-Q this weekend. But based on playing around with the unit so far, only the remote codes and the too-high sub setting are the problems I've found. |
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DYohn
Emo VIPs 
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Post by DYohn on Feb 22, 2010 12:01:54 GMT -5
You need to engage your sense of humor. Easy for you to say, since it seems that you have the only perfect unit (save the one in the Emotiva theater). For the rest of us there are problems, even if you don't see them. Please do not take this as an attack on you (or Emotiva), I wish I had a unit that works as good for me as yours does you. But the truth is it doesn't, and the constant cry of "room issues", "user error" or "incompatible other components" is getting a bit tired. I don't, and most others don't either, have unlimited time to test this processor. I am willing to put some effort into it, but a little acknowledgement from the other side would go a long way in making me (us) feel the effort is worthwhile and productive. No worries. The only issue I am having with mine after the software update has to do with the signal quality out of my DirectTV DVR and is not due to the UMC-1. When watching my DVR I get to deal with constant and frustrating audio drop outs and shifting from 5.1 to 2.0 with HDMI feeds from my DVR, periodic loss of center channel and video glitches. But the performance with the HDMI feed from my Sony Blu Ray player is perfect, so it's not an issue with the UMC-1, it's an issue with the DVR. I am fortunate to have a very straight-forward setup. My display is a one-year-old LCD HDTV panel and is less than 2 meters from the UMC-1. I use high quality cables (Better Cables and Blue Jeans.) The only inputs to the UMC-1 are my DVR and BRD, both connected with 1-m HDMI cables, and one analog stereo input from a DAC connected to a Squeezebox. No long cable runs, no older model display devices, no projectors, no PS3 or other gaming input, no legacy video requirements. Plus my room is set up with some attention to acoustic treatments and with very little required in the way of DSP room corrections. I know how my speaker setup should look and have no problem correcting the few mistakes Emo-Q makes when detecting them. The DSP works as intended in my machine, and that's all I need it to do. I suspect I am much more in the majority than the problem posts on this forum would have you believe. A couple dozen people with some sort of issue is unfortunate, and perhaps represents an unacceptably high defect rate if the problems are actually hardware related and depending on how many Emotiva has actually sold thus far. But more likely the problems from the vocal who post on the forum are relatively few, and are more likely due to software (and variable calibration mic quality) than they are due to design issues or hardware failures. If it was a design issue the failure reports would be much more universal. And I have to wonder how many of the "failures" are due to expectations and equipment incompatibility rather than due to actual failures. For example, I put all the universal remote compatibility reports into this category. That something does not work the way a user thinks it should does not mean it is defective, only that it works differently from what they desired or expected. I get accused of being a fan boy and defending Emotiva. So be it. But really all I am doing is reporting on my personal experience with their products. If my UMC-1 was not working I would certainly report that as well, as I have no vested interest in the company other than wishing them well and hoping their unique business model continues into the foreseeable future. |
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bwfan
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Post by bwfan on Feb 22, 2010 12:02:00 GMT -5
The entire reason that I am on the pre-order list is that my BK Reference 30 had Audio-drop-out issues with my Directv HD DVR. UNACCEPTABLE. I sold that unit and am awaiting a working pre/pro - hopefully, the UMC-1. I am very concerned if the UMC-1 cannot positively lock onto the audio signal from DirecTV on an HD DVR. Let me put it more simply.... My plan is to order the UMC-1 and give it a try. Here is my definition of try: I will put it in my system and see if it works correctly. If it works correctly - I'm happy. If it doesn't work correctly, I will IMMEDIATELY call Emotiva and get an RMA number. I have no plans to do firmware updates in my home. I am not going to give anyone the benefit of the doubt that these issues will be fixed in short order. I will simply return the unit and buy something else. I just don't care to be beta-tester unless Emotiva puts me on their payroll. I don't think I'm being unreasonable. I want a quality product delivered the first time without any defects. There are no 2nd chances with me. Unfortunately firmware updates are the norm these days. Your DVR, TV, blu-ray player to name a few now require updates from time to time. This can be a good thing especially if improvements of fixes can be made. If you are unwilling to deal with firmware updates on electronic products, that's a real problem Having said that, I do agree that electronic products including the UMC-1 should be "plug and play" and work out of the box. It doesn't matter what it costs, it should work. Based on your response, I don't think you should be looking to buy the UMC-1. You will more than likely be returning it. I think no matter what he buys he'll be returning it ;D With the advent of HDMI and copyright protection there are bound to be incompatibilities. Time to go back to analog!  PS: Direct TV HD PVR has ongoing drop out issues with other pre-pro's out there so not sure where your logic is on this  |
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Post by jgeiger on Feb 22, 2010 12:02:41 GMT -5
I am not sure why, but there are a very vocal few who would lead you to believe the unit is full of bugs when this is clearly not true. I like the unit. I really do. It does everything that I want to do when it works. Is it full of bugs? No. I would venture to say it's 95% error free. My issue is that the 5% of it that is bugged are the things I have to deal with on a daily basis. Each time one of small issues happen it just adds to the annoyance. If the units you're shipping now are 'bug free', I'll gladly accept one of those units and ship you back the one that I've got in my system when the new one gets to my house. |
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Post by jerrym303 on Feb 22, 2010 12:20:01 GMT -5
You know, we're all hobbyists here and if most people are like me, we actually enjoy a little tweaking and don't mind a few glitches that may crop up from time to time. My problem with this situation is two-fold... 1) I'm upgrading a 9-year old system that never had any glitches. No firmware upgrades. Nothing. I plugged it in and it worked. Now regarding the above, I realize that HDMI and modern features are much more complex and we live in the age up firmware updates. I'm OK with that, and I have reasonable expectations that a new product will likely need some FW tweaks before it's 100%. Unfortunately for me, after reading about all the issues with HDMI (Emotiva and others), I'm starting to rethink upgrading at all. Maybe I can live with component video and DD / DTS for a couple more years. 2) As I mentioned above, I'm not averse to tweaking and installing FW updates every once in a while. However, my home theater is enjoyed by my entire family - not just me. I might be able/willing to quickly reset my speaker levels every time I power up my pre-pro, but my wife and kids are not. In my decision to purchase new components, I must take ease of use and reliability into consideration - I may have the ability, but I don't have the luxury to Beta test a product in my home theater. Well said. Someone mentioned above that products like the BDP-83 need FW upgrades as well. Well, the BDP-83 did not need any FW update to work on an everyday basis. I was not in the test group, but got one of the first units and it has functioned well in my system without bothering to update yet. Some the problems noted here for the UMC-1 are more critical to everyday use. I remain confident that Emotiva will acknowledge and fix these items. Probably not confident enough to send CC info just yet, though. I remain interested in the unit. The Emotv clips are particularly helpful and impressive. They really demonstrate the flexibility and adjustability of the unit. |
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Post by rskarvan on Feb 22, 2010 12:22:28 GMT -5
Here is the issue that I had with my B&K Reference 30.
Every time I switched from a non-HD station to an HD station, the reference 30 would lose the audio lock and I'd have to press a few buttons on the remote to re-acquire the digital Toslink signal. I contacted b&k and they told me that they had a new audio board to fix this issue. The board was supposed to be available in September. Then, October. Then November. Then December. Pffff... Finally, out of frustration, I sold the b&K in hopes of getting the UMC-1.
Now, my patience was run-thin with endless promises from b&k regarding getting the system fixed. I learned that promises from them are pretty much meaningless.
I do apologize that my frustration with B&K has spilled-over to EMO. I just don't have the patience (anymore) to accept defects with regard to an audio-signal-lock.
An occasional glitch (every couple days) is fine. But, a consistent problem would be a real problem for me. Right now, I simply miss listening to 5.1 surround sound and I want something that works. I am waiting anxiously for that EMO e-mail requesting my CC info.
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Post by jerrym303 on Feb 22, 2010 12:26:35 GMT -5
Easy for you to say, since it seems that you have the only perfect unit (save the one in the Emotiva theater). For the rest of us there are problems, even if you don't see them. Please do not take this as an attack on you (or Emotiva), I wish I had a unit that works as good for me as yours does you. But the truth is it doesn't, and the constant cry of "room issues", "user error" or "incompatible other components" is getting a bit tired. I don't, and most others don't either, have unlimited time to test this processor. I am willing to put some effort into it, but a little acknowledgement from the other side would go a long way in making me (us) feel the effort is worthwhile and productive. No worries. The only issue I am having with mine after the software update has to do with the signal quality out of my DirectTV DVR and is not due to the UMC-1. When watching my DVR I get to deal with constant and frustrating audio drop outs and shifting from 5.1 to 2.0 with HDMI feeds from my DVR, periodic loss of center channel and video glitches. But the performance with the HDMI feed from my Sony Blu Ray player is perfect, so it's not an issue with the UMC-1, it's an issue with the DVR. I have no such issues with two Directv DVRs and two old TIVO R10s going to my Yamaha RX-V3800 or to a DVDO Edge (now sold). Trying not to move backwards here. The only issues I have never had with the Directv DVRs was the loss of remote control when they goofed up an update about a year ago and, of course, latency. The operation of the DVRs is important for other users in my house. |
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Post by johnnyg on Feb 22, 2010 12:37:34 GMT -5
The only issue I am having with mine after the software update has to do with the signal quality out of my DirectTV DVR and is not due to the UMC-1. When watching my DVR I get to deal with constant and frustrating audio drop outs and shifting from 5.1 to 2.0 with HDMI feeds from my DVR, periodic loss of center channel and video glitches. But the performance with the HDMI feed from my Sony Blu Ray player is perfect, so it's not an issue with the UMC-1, it's an issue with the DVR. The fact that the audio from the Blu Ray player is perfect doesn't mean the DVR is the sole source of audio problems when watching DirecTV. I have DirecTV and I believe that both the DVR and the UMC-1 are to blame. The DVR may be the source of the audio dropouts, but the UMC-1 does not appear to be recovering properly. When the UMC drops back to 2.0 it will stay there even though the signal returns to 5.1. I can back up to a point just after the original audio glitch and it will lock in at 5.1 on the same signal it was playing as 2.0. Also, the channel disappearances are not in the DVR signal either. Once gone, they don't seem to come back by pausing or changing channels - it takes an input switch to restore them. Under no circumstances should a signal from the DVR should be able cause the UMC to lose channels. Lose audio lock temporarily? Yes. Lose signals that require input change to get back? No. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 22, 2010 12:44:20 GMT -5
Take a look at the DBS forum. Direct TV has acknowledged that there was an issue in their software downloads of October 2009 and Jan 2010 that caused audio stream instabilities in their HDMI signal that is causing drop out problems in some recent processors and receivers. They claim their upcoming Feb. update should address them. And FYI, my UMC-1 does not require an input change to correct the Dolby mode changes, it switches back and forth between 5.1 and 2.0 during DirecTV viewing, and it only happens on some channels, but not on others. It may be the UMC-1 revealing the issue, but it is absolutely a DTV issue. |
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Post by broncsrule21 on Feb 22, 2010 13:05:55 GMT -5
Hopefully Direct Tvs feb update helps with this problem. I would guess, as in my house, the sat receiver/DVR gets the most use out of source components.
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Post by jerrym303 on Feb 22, 2010 13:10:09 GMT -5
Take a look at the DBS forum. Direct TV has acknowledged that there was an issue in their software downloads of October 2009 and Jan 2010 that caused audio stream instabilities in their HDMI signal that is causing drop out problems in some recent processors and receivers. They claim their upcoming Feb. update should address them. And FYI, my UMC-1 does not require an input change to correct the Dolby mode changes, it switches back and forth between 5.1 and 2.0 during DirecTV viewing, and it only happens on some channels, but not on others. It may be the UMC-1 revealing the issue, but it is absolutely a DTV issue. Yes, I was just there the other day. Some members having dropouts with the 0395 FW. Mostly, people are just very unhappy with the latency and hoping for some relief there. I agree with them. It shouldn't take more than about half a second to change channels or more than a second to get the playlist up. As was noted above, the UMC is not handling the dropout challenge well from what I can surmise here. I don;t even notice a problem in my set-up. |
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Post by broncsrule21 on Feb 22, 2010 13:15:48 GMT -5
My Denon has no problems with my DVR HR21. makes me reluctant to change. But, I do beleive all parties will eventually implement fixes.
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Post by johnnyg on Feb 22, 2010 13:50:37 GMT -5
I am not sure why, but there are a very vocal few who would lead you to believe the unit is full of bugs when this is clearly not true. That statement is true, the unit is definitely not full of bugs. However, you must realize that some of the few bugs are more noticeable than others. For example, EmoQ is giving me unusual crossover values and one of the surround EQs is mislabeled as a back speaker. These are minor issues - I set the crossover manually and ignore the label on the one EQ screen and never give it a second thought. However, other bugs are not so benign. Last night we watched the Olympics (a 3 hour recording plus 30 minutes of live TV switching between two channels), I counted the following: - Eleven times I had to pause and resume to restore the 5.1 signal because it dropped down to 2.0 and stayed there.
- Five times I had to pause the playback, switch inputs, and resume because one or more channels were lost.
- Three times I had to comfort the dog because the high pitched electronic noise when changing channels hurts her ears.
- Twice I had to answer questions from my wife asking "why is this better than what we had before?"
If this was your last night, would you be happy? I'm not meaning to be harsh here, I'm simply trying to point out how things look from my perspective. I know that you guys are working hard and will have these problems solved. But this going happen to me every evening until it is done. Ten minutes of the best sounding pre-pro I've ever heard (which the UMC-1 is) doesn't make up for having to intervene to get that sound to continue. Sorry all, I needed to vent. I feel better now. |
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Post by oldnickt on Feb 22, 2010 14:01:54 GMT -5
Ok, so I have a number of assertions and requests
(0)Request: people with UMC0-1's report defect to Emo and get feedback before publishing
(1)Assertion: I believe Emo will resolve the known real issues
(2)Request: I request that they notify VIP forum members with UMC-1's with confirmed defect status - reported/confirmed/cause identified/fixed/tested/released
(3) Request: That the open forum be patient - we can damage a good company reputation without good cause
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Post by johnnyg on Feb 22, 2010 14:15:59 GMT -5
Take a look at the DBS forum. Direct TV has acknowledged that there was an issue in their software downloads of October 2009 and Jan 2010 that caused audio stream instabilities in their HDMI signal that is causing drop out problems in some recent processors and receivers. They claim their upcoming Feb. update should address them. And FYI, my UMC-1 does not require an input change to correct the Dolby mode changes, it switches back and forth between 5.1 and 2.0 during DirecTV viewing, and it only happens on some channels, but not on others. It may be the UMC-1 revealing the issue, but it is absolutely a DTV issue. I have looked at DBSTalk forum. My issue is that the October DirecTV update didn't cause any problems with my Yamaha still in the system, and the January update didn't occur until about two weeks after installing the UMC-1. Does DirecTV have issues with audio blips? Absolutely. Did my Yamaha recover from them properly? Yes. Does the UMC-1 recover from the properly? No. And FYI, my UMC-1 doesn't require an input mode to correct the Dolby mode changes either. But it does when one or more channels disappear. |
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 22, 2010 14:20:25 GMT -5
Why don't you save yourself the trouble and buy a Krell Oops, sorry, they have issues. Ummm, Integra, no, Denon maybe, no they also have issues. Hmmmm, Cary, oh sorry that one also has issues. Hmmmm I'm at a loss here. ;D ;D ;D I have a Krell KAV-250A amplifier. I should be upset because Krell initiated a consumer recall on this unit as a fire hazard. But, I'm not upset with Krell at all. Why? Because, Krell sent to me replacement fuses along with instructions to install them - eliminating the fire hazard. But, you know what Lonnie? They also sent me a check for $150 for my trouble (having to open the case to replace the four fuses). My Krell amp was manufactured in 1988. In 2010, I get a check for $150 to replace four fuses. And, my Krell has operated without any fault for the twenty-two years that I've owned it. About 3 years ago, my Krell remote died. I called them up (19 years later), and they send me overnight (Fed-EX) another one free-of-charge Don't even think Emotiva is in the same league as Krell. You guys haven't issued anyone a check for their trouble. This comparison is what I would call overkill. The software bugs have been duly noted by Emotiva and they are in research and fix mode. What else would we have them do. Fixes take time and I have confidence that Emotiva will come through. It will not happen overnight. As for the comparison to Krell, I don't think "The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission" has had to step in to force a recall because the UMC-1 is overheating to a point where it might burn down the house and take the lives of those in it. Krell might be looking like they voluntarily made this happen and happy to send those affected $150 checks after the fuse replacement but I assure you the checks are play money compared to a possibly very real lawsuit worth millions that would have envariably put them out of business. I personally am on the pre-order list and do want to see this worked out to everyones satisfaction, but I refuse to become part of a mob mentality. I understand that those of you that have the UMC-1 at home and are having problems want it fixed and fixed now but acting out of character on this forum is not the way to go about it. Reminding them of the problems every hour on the hour gets old to everyone involved. If we remain civilized and talk to Emotiva (Big Dan, Lonnie, Dann G., etc.) in a professional manner I'd bet the software issue will get fixed and in a reasonable amount of time. I've always had good customer service through Emotiva by CALLING them and discussing the problem and they've always fixed the problem. Give them a chance to do the right thing.  |
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