ratmice
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Post by ratmice on Feb 23, 2010 21:25:24 GMT -5
To me, the problem is not that 480i upscales to 480p, the bigger issue he is reporting is that the output STICKS on 480p ever after. . . so if you have say a VCR that sends 480i, and then you change to an Blu-ray, you are stuck at 480p until you manually change it back. The question of whether or not 480i should be upscaled a design decision. If the output permanently sticks at 480p, that's a BUG. BTW, I still have a VCR with a stack of videos that the kids play (and a couple I suffer through ;-). It is hooked up with SVIDEO, at 480i. I believe you are mistaken here. If you set the output to say 1080p, then it will hold 1080p. It doesn't matter whether the input is 480i or 1080p. But it seems that it will not do that if set to auto - at least that's what seems to be reported. I'm away from my unit so I can't check this for myself right now. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 23, 2010 21:28:48 GMT -5
I believe you are mistaken here. If you set the output to say 1080p, then it will hold 1080p. It doesn't matter whether the input is 480i or 1080p. But it seems that it will not do that if set to auto - at least that's what seems to be reported. I'm away from my unit so I can't check this for myself right now. I can't test it as I have nothing that outputs 480i... |
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ratmice
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Post by ratmice on Feb 23, 2010 21:32:31 GMT -5
But it seems that it will not do that if set to auto - at least that's what seems to be reported. I'm away from my unit so I can't check this for myself right now. I can't test it as I have nothing that outputs 480i... C'mon, no ancient DVD player collecting dust in the basement? |
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Post by loopinfool on Feb 23, 2010 21:36:58 GMT -5
To me, the problem is not that 480i upscales to 480p, the bigger issue he is reporting is that the output STICKS on 480p ever after. . . so if you have say a VCR that sends 480i, and then you change to an Blu-ray, you are stuck at 480p until you manually change it back. The question of whether or not 480i should be upscaled a design decision. If the output permanently sticks at 480p, that's a BUG. BTW, I still have a VCR with a stack of videos that the kids play (and a couple I suffer through ;-). It is hooked up with SVIDEO, at 480i. I believe you are mistaken here. If you set the output to say 1080p, then it will hold 1080p. It doesn't matter whether the input is 480i or 1080p. At least one person here stated that when set to pass-through, this is the behavior they saw. It was coupled with the "Unsupported resolution" error message I strongly objected to. It's not unsupported (works, and de-interlaces to 480p) and it's not an error (480i on the input is supported). If it really "sticks" to 480p and requires user attention, it is indeed a bug. I suggested you use an Oppo DVD/Blu-Ray player to test, as they (some of them) support 480i output over HDMI. I think it might even have happened on component in when set to pass-through, though. - LoopinFool |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 23, 2010 21:43:29 GMT -5
I can't test it as I have nothing that outputs 480i... C'mon, no ancient DVD player collecting dust in the basement? Ha! Actually I just gave away a very nice old Phillips DVD player that had composite and SVID outputs, but that was my last vestige of NTSC.  |
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lonnie
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Post by lonnie on Feb 23, 2010 21:44:28 GMT -5
I believe you are mistaken here. If you set the output to say 1080p, then it will hold 1080p. It doesn't matter whether the input is 480i or 1080p. But it seems that it will not do that if set to auto - at least that's what seems to be reported. I'm away from my unit so I can't check this for myself right now. In Auto mode it will look at the EDID from the monitor/projector and set itself to whatever the monitor tells it is the prefered resolution. If the monitor/projector is DVI and doesn't have EDID reporting, then the UMC will see HPD go high with no EDID and default to 480p so that you will always get video. Your monitor/projector may be capable of running at higher resolutions, but without EDID, there is no way for hte UMC to know what it can do. So in this case, you would need to set an output resolution to something compatible with your monitor. Hopefully this helps to clear things up. |
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Post by loopinfool on Feb 23, 2010 21:50:04 GMT -5
great job again dyohn in explaining the facts on the 480i! Very helpful. Ummm, they weren't facts. 480i is still the most prevalent format out there (in the US). Every standard-def broadcast station, VCR, DVD, etc. is 480i at the source. It can be connected via modulated RF, Composite, S-Video, Y/C, Component, SDI, DVI, HDMI, and others. Note that the UMC-1 has both Composite and S-Video connectors on the back and those only support 480i/576i signals. Always de-interlacing it to 480p is a valid design decision and often a necessary one with today's HDMI chips. That decision does limit the user's options. The good news is that it sounds like the UMC-1 does a very good job of doing that de-interlacing. The bad news is that most set-top-boxes are awful at it, so the 480i support on the UMC-1 should be foolproof. Calling it an antiquated format that doesn't need to be supported is just plain wrong. - LoopinFool |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 23, 2010 21:51:42 GMT -5
But it seems that it will not do that if set to auto - at least that's what seems to be reported. I'm away from my unit so I can't check this for myself right now. In Auto mode it will look at the EDID from the monitor/projector and set itself to whatever the monitor tells it is the prefered resolution. If the monitor/projector is DVI and doesn't have EDID reporting, then the UMC will see HPD go high with no EDID and default to 480p so that you will always get video. Your monitor/projector may be capable of running at higher resolutions, but without EDID, there is no way for hte UMC to know what it can do. So in this case, you would need to set an output resolution to something compatible with your monitor. Hopefully this helps to clear things up. Lonnie, you forgot to add "this is not a bug, it is the way the system is supposed to function." |
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Post by loopinfool on Feb 23, 2010 21:52:44 GMT -5
In Auto mode it will look at the EDID from the monitor/projector and set itself to whatever the monitor tells it is the prefered resolution. If the monitor/projector is DVI and doesn't have EDID reporting, then the UMC will see HPD go high with no EDID and default to 480p so that you will always get video. Your monitor/projector may be capable of running at higher resolutions, but without EDID, there is no way for hte UMC to know what it can do. So in this case, you would need to set an output resolution to something compatible with your monitor. Hopefully this helps to clear things up. Sounds good, but the reports I saw here said the problem was with pass-through mode. Which is kind of worse, since it wouldn't go back to 720p or 1080i/p when it next saw such a source. - LoopinFool |
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ratmice
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Post by ratmice on Feb 23, 2010 21:54:47 GMT -5
But it seems that it will not do that if set to auto - at least that's what seems to be reported. I'm away from my unit so I can't check this for myself right now. In Auto mode it will look at the EDID from the monitor/projector and set itself to whatever the monitor tells it is the prefered resolution. If the monitor/projector is DVI and doesn't have EDID reporting, then the UMC will see HPD go high with no EDID and default to 480p so that you will always get video. Your monitor/projector may be capable of running at higher resolutions, but without EDID, there is no way for hte UMC to know what it can do. So in this case, you would need to set an output resolution to something compatible with your monitor. Hopefully this helps to clear things up. I think I meant to say pass through, rather than auto, as loopinfool pointed out. Thanks for the explanation. |
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lonnie
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Post by lonnie on Feb 23, 2010 22:02:13 GMT -5
In Auto mode it will look at the EDID from the monitor/projector and set itself to whatever the monitor tells it is the prefered resolution. If the monitor/projector is DVI and doesn't have EDID reporting, then the UMC will see HPD go high with no EDID and default to 480p so that you will always get video. Your monitor/projector may be capable of running at higher resolutions, but without EDID, there is no way for hte UMC to know what it can do. So in this case, you would need to set an output resolution to something compatible with your monitor. Hopefully this helps to clear things up. Sounds good, but the reports I saw here said the problem was with pass-through mode. Which is kind of worse, since it wouldn't go back to 720p or 1080i/p when it next saw such a source. - LoopinFool This I will need to look into because in my test it would de-interlace the 480i but switch to higher resolutions when they are present. So I will do some digging and see. |
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Post by moodyman on Feb 23, 2010 22:02:26 GMT -5
Confirmed issues being corrected:
• Sub-woofer crossover freq. not consistent in all modes.
• Sub-woofer level set by EMO-Q is too high.
• Speaker level settings not being correctly retained after power cycle.
• EQs not being applied to all modes consistently.
• With multiple stream changes, PLIIx default not being initialized 100% of the time.
• EMO-Q speaker detection bug and sound field application being revised and calibration being corrected and optimized
Do any of these fit into the "subwoofer equalizer/ crossover adjustments not working"...?? Is that issue lumped into the first item listed??
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 23, 2010 22:03:06 GMT -5
great job again dyohn in explaining the facts on the 480i! Very helpful. Ummm, they weren't facts. 480i is still the most prevalent format out there (in the US). Every standard-def broadcast station, VCR, DVD, etc. is 480i at the source. It can be connected via modulated RF, Composite, S-Video, Y/C, Component, SDI, DVI, HDMI, and others. Note that the UMC-1 has both Composite and S-Video connectors on the back and those only support 480i/576i signals. Always de-interlacing it to 480p is a valid design decision and often a necessary one with today's HDMI chips. That decision does limit the user's options. The good news is that it sounds like the UMC-1 does a very good job of doing that de-interlacing. The bad news is that most set-top-boxes are awful at it, so the 480i support on the UMC-1 should be foolproof. Calling it an antiquated format that doesn't need to be supported is just plain wrong. - LoopinFool The UMC-1 supports 480i, I never said it didn't... it just does not output at that format. |
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lonnie
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Post by lonnie on Feb 23, 2010 22:06:01 GMT -5
Confirmed issues being corrected: • Sub-woofer crossover freq. not consistent in all modes. • Sub-woofer level set by EMO-Q is too high. • Speaker level settings not being correctly retained after power cycle. • EQs not being applied to all modes consistently. • With multiple stream changes, PLIIx default not being initialized 100% of the time. • EMO-Q speaker detection bug and sound field application being revised and calibration being corrected and optimized Do any of these fit into the "subwoofer equalizer/ crossover adjustments not working"...?? Is that issue lumped into the first item listed?? Yes, that is part of it. Dan summerized my report so there may be some specifics not respresented here, but you are correct. |
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Post by Woodpecker on Feb 23, 2010 22:13:05 GMT -5
Thanks for the late night input Lonnie!
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Post by jerrym303 on Feb 23, 2010 22:19:55 GMT -5
But it seems that it will not do that if set to auto - at least that's what seems to be reported. I'm away from my unit so I can't check this for myself right now. In Auto mode it will look at the EDID from the monitor/projector and set itself to whatever the monitor tells it is the prefered resolution. If the monitor/projector is DVI and doesn't have EDID reporting, then the UMC will see HPD go high with no EDID and default to 480p so that you will always get video. Your monitor/projector may be capable of running at higher resolutions, but without EDID, there is no way for hte UMC to know what it can do. So in this case, you would need to set an output resolution to something compatible with your monitor. Hopefully this helps to clear things up. I think that this EDID check is what may not have been working well for the person who noted the degradation of 1080P signal. The UMC may have been downscaling to what it read even though the signal was 1080p and the UMC was set to 1080p (fixed) output. If "locked" to 1080p or 720p output really meant locked, I could live with that even if the UMC processing is slightly worse in the UMC than what I have downstream. I could just switch to pass-through for movies (a minority of our use). As far as the switch to 480p and staying there when starting out in pass-through, that sure seems like a bug and not a feature to me. If this could be fixed in one of these two ways below, that would be even a better solution for me than noted in the paragraph above: 1. just pass-through all signals (adding OSD only) for 480i through 1080p 2. Go ahead and upscale 480i, but then switch back automatically to pass-through as soon as the signal is 480p or above (second best as this could cause latency). I'm just trying to find one set it and leave it mode that works for everyday use. If movies require some effort, that is OK. |
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lonnie
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Post by lonnie on Feb 23, 2010 22:20:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the late night input Lonnie! No problem Sorry I haven't been around much lately. I have kind of had a full plate lately. ;D |
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Post by jerrym303 on Feb 23, 2010 22:26:08 GMT -5
Confirmed issues being corrected: • Sub-woofer crossover freq. not consistent in all modes. • Sub-woofer level set by EMO-Q is too high. • Speaker level settings not being correctly retained after power cycle. • EQs not being applied to all modes consistently. • With multiple stream changes, PLIIx default not being initialized 100% of the time. • EMO-Q speaker detection bug and sound field application being revised and calibration being corrected and optimized Do any of these fit into the "subwoofer equalizer/ crossover adjustments not working"...?? Is that issue lumped into the first item listed?? I wish I were better at searching, but what I saw was people saying that there was no equalization at all being applied to the sub. If that is the case, I'm sure that it will bubble up eventually. |
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Post by zductive on Feb 23, 2010 22:28:08 GMT -5
If this issue where the UMC while in passthrough mode will switch to 480P when a 480P image comes on and then stay there even when a 1080P picture turns on - that is a HUGE problem.
I believe that I have seen this problem but did not retest for it tonight.
Can someone verify this issue - please.
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lonnie
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Post by lonnie on Feb 23, 2010 22:29:38 GMT -5
In Auto mode it will look at the EDID from the monitor/projector and set itself to whatever the monitor tells it is the prefered resolution. If the monitor/projector is DVI and doesn't have EDID reporting, then the UMC will see HPD go high with no EDID and default to 480p so that you will always get video. Your monitor/projector may be capable of running at higher resolutions, but without EDID, there is no way for hte UMC to know what it can do. So in this case, you would need to set an output resolution to something compatible with your monitor. Hopefully this helps to clear things up. I think that this EDID check is what may not have been working well for the person who noted the degradation of 1080P signal. The UMC may have been downscaling to what it read even though the signal was 1080p and the UMC was set to 1080p (fixed) output. If "locked" to 1080p or 720p output really meant locked, I could live with that even if the UMC processing is slightly worse in the UMC than what I have downstream. I could just switch to pass-through for movies (a minority of our use). As far as the switch to 480p and staying there when starting out in pass-through, that sure seems like a bug and not a feature to me. If this could be fixed in one of these two ways below, that would be even a better solution for me than noted in the paragraph above: 1. just pass-through all signals (adding OSD only) for 480i through 1080p 2. Go ahead and upscale 480i, but then switch back automatically to pass-through as soon as the signal is 480p or above (second best as this could cause latency). I'm just trying to find one set it and leave it mode that works for everyday use. If movies require some effort, that is OK. Within the EDID info is all the supported resolutions of the monitor with a flag on the preferred resolution. So one possability could be that the input to a monitor may support 1080p but the preferred resolution is 720p ( I have a Panasonic Plasma in the lab that is like this becuase the panel itself is only 720p but will accept 1080p on the input). In this case the 1080p input would be down scaled to 720p which might or might not cause some video issues. But this would only happen if the UMC was set to Auto. If the EDID reported the monitor supported 1080p and the output resolution was set to 1080p, then it would hold it at that resolution. |
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