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Post by goozoo on Apr 6, 2017 15:38:29 GMT -5
As an update, I did speak with customer service and they did confirm that the customer loyalty program and 40% discount cards will still stay in effect. Perhaps now that they do not need to makeup as much margin due to sales, there may be some room for modification of the return policy. As it stands, one of the greatest barriers to people buying amps or speakers is the fact that they would be doing so without hearing them first (in many instances). Unfortunately, these are two bigger ticket items that require the buyer to listen first and decide later. How many more sales (purchases) on speakers or amps would there be if the customer knew that they didn't have to pay an arm and a leg to send it back should they not be happy with it? Think about it, when then Airmotiv 15" sub arrives in your home and you decide its' not for you, who is going to want to pay to ship that beast back?! Just a thought for expanding the sales. Hope Dan is following this thread. The problem I see with free return shipping is then not only is the cost of "free" shipping built into the price, but so is the cost of return free shipping. I am fine with building the shipping to the customer cost being built into the price since that is spread across everyone who buys the product. But building "free" return costs into the product unfairly penalizes those who choose to keep the item. Also, I feel free return shipping acts as too much encouragement for people to just order something on a whim with no intention of keeping the product since they know it costs nothing to listen and then send it back. What Emo could do is let the person returning it pay for a prepaid label at Emo's freight cost since they must get volume shipping discounts. While I understand what you are saying, when looking at the statistics in those scenarios, it turns out that companies that do this don't get as many returns as one would think. While your solution is plausible (and reasonable), I don't know if I (or many others) would be willing to pay $50-$75 to ship back a sub. Of course the other challenge here is international customers and the headache associated with that. Without an effective retail arm (that they have been unable to pull off), it is just really hard to roll the dice with $2500+.
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Apr 6, 2017 16:09:05 GMT -5
"It's just not us"....But it was us since we started this company and how I got you to buy my amps, dacs & pre-pros. Seriously, I think what Big Dan is saying instead of having another price increase, as they are inevitable with rising costs, he will leave the prices the way they are now and not mark up just to mark down later in the year. I understand big man
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Post by wilburthegoose on Apr 6, 2017 16:23:21 GMT -5
I think it's a very smart move, indicative of a mature company. Well done.
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Post by deltadube on Apr 6, 2017 16:32:21 GMT -5
ive heard this before!!!
i love the secret ware house sale...
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Post by goozoo on Apr 6, 2017 16:55:35 GMT -5
ive heard this before!!! i love the secret ware house sale... Now no longer a secret....Thanks deltadube!
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Post by saru on Apr 6, 2017 17:16:13 GMT -5
I wonder if recent sales volume had been coming in under expectations. If it's assumed that many customers are holding off their purchases for the expected seasonal sale, that might've warranted such a broadly cast message from Dan about the no-discount-pricing model to have seemingly come from out of nowhere (it's a bit early for people to have been asking about an upcoming summer sale).
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Post by Kent on Apr 6, 2017 17:24:05 GMT -5
And what of any 40% discount cards? Its fair to believe that they will be honored untill the last one is returned to Emotiva! I've been purposely holding on to mine for the RMC-1. I wouldn't be impressed if they didn't honour it.
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Post by Axis on Apr 6, 2017 17:50:58 GMT -5
Sales are good for Emotiva. That's why you cant get things sometimes.
My Dad told me when I was a boy that if you see a full yard of cars for sale, walk away. Also the worst job you can have is when you depend on someone to buy from you to eat.
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Post by teaman on Apr 6, 2017 18:19:47 GMT -5
As an update, I did speak with customer service and they did confirm that the customer loyalty program and 40% discount cards will still stay in effect. Perhaps now that they do not need to makeup as much margin due to sales, there may be some room for modification of the return policy. As it stands, one of the greatest barriers to people buying amps or speakers is the fact that they would be doing so without hearing them first (in many instances). Unfortunately, these are two bigger ticket items that require the buyer to listen first and decide later. How many more sales (purchases) on speakers or amps would there be if the customer knew that they didn't have to pay an arm and a leg to send it back should they not be happy with it? Think about it, when then Airmotiv 15" sub arrives in your home and you decide its' not for you, who is going to want to pay to ship that beast back?! Just a thought for expanding the sales. Hope Dan is following this thread. That was most likely a reason to do partner sales with brick and mortar shops. This way you can go to an actual shop and listen before you buy.
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Post by Dan Laufman on Apr 6, 2017 18:26:09 GMT -5
We're doing very well and it's all due to loyal customers like you guys here. Thank you!!
I DID want to eliminate the sale thing couple of years ago and I blinked. I've been kicking myself ever since.
What you don't see here on the Lounge is the number of unhappy/angry calls we get after a sale ends... no matter how long we run it, or extend it, and no matter how long it's been sine the sale was over!! These people are upset because they missed the deal and feel like they are over-paying. Also, the guy or gal who paid retail before the sale feels like they got ripped off...again, it doesn't really matters how long it been.
And it affects the value of used gear.. a lot. Just like a car. The resale value is typically based on the lowest "market" price. So, if you paid retail and then trade, it's based on a lower value. That does not engender good feelings either.
So, I'm glad we finally did this and we we'll stick to it. In the long run, I believe you will be better served and we'll be able to keep overall pricing down.
Peace, Big Dan
P.S. UFL is, of course, still honored, as are the remaining few 40% cards still out there.
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Post by teaman on Apr 6, 2017 18:28:40 GMT -5
We're doing very well and it's all due to loyal customers like you guys here. Thank you!! I DID want to eliminate the sale thing couple of years ago and I blinked. I've been kicking myself ever since. What you don't see here on the Lounge is the number of unhappy/angry calls we get after a sale ends... no matter how long we run it, or extend it, and no matter how long it's been sine the sale was over!! These people are upset because they missed the deal and feel like they are over-paying. Also, the guy or gal who paid retail before the sale feels like they got ripped off...again, it doesn't really matters how long it been. And it affects the value of used gear.. a lot. Just like a car. The resale value is typically based on the lowest "market" price. So, if you paid retail and then trade, it's based on a lower value. That does not engender good feelings either. So, I'm glad we finally did this and we we'll stick to it. In the long run, I believe you will be better served and we'll be able to keep overall pricing down. Peace, Big Dan P.S. UFL is, of course, still honored, as are the remaining few 40% cards still out there. ....so you're saying there's a chance.....lol
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Apr 6, 2017 18:35:56 GMT -5
We're doing very well and it's all due to loyal customers like you guys here. Thank you!! I DID want to eliminate the sale thing couple of years ago and I blinked. I've been kicking myself ever since. What you don't see here on the Lounge is the number of unhappy/angry calls we get after a sale ends... no matter how long we run it, or extend it, and no matter how long it's been sine the sale was over!! These people are upset because they missed the deal and feel like they are over-paying. Also, the guy or gal who paid retail before the sale feels like they got ripped off...again, it doesn't really matters how long it been. And it affects the value of used gear.. a lot. Just like a car. The resale value is typically based on the lowest "market" price. So, if you paid retail and then trade, it's based on a lower value. That does not engender good feelings either. So, I'm glad we finally did this and we we'll stick to it. In the long run, I believe you will be better served and we'll be able to keep overall pricing down. Peace, Big Dan P.S. UFL is, of course, still honored, as are the remaining few 40% cards still out there. Thanks big guy! You do realize that everyone possessing a 40% off card JUST TOOK A SCREEN SHOT! LOL Peace ✌️
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Post by yeahwicked on Apr 6, 2017 19:00:47 GMT -5
So, I'm glad we finally did this and we we'll stick to it. You pinky swears? Jesus, the amount of *bleep*ry I had to wade through for this image ಠ_ಠ get rekt you bundle of sticks ^ Censor
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Post by jra on Apr 6, 2017 19:49:04 GMT -5
I personally am happy to see this move. Everything Dan said is true regarding winners & losers, etc. There are lots of ways to generate sales — create good products, have a good customer service experience, loan equipment out for professional reviews, and even a bit of advertising. Offering sales hurts the gross margin profit plan and creates weird bubbles in finances. I once worked for a company, Silicon Graphics, Inc. (SGI) which got stuck in a mode of always needing to make sales targets at the end of each quarter so the sales staff would be given order to engage in all sorts of promotional activities near the ends of the quarters. The customers figured this out and started holding off purchases till near the end of the quarter which only exacerbated the quarter end sales forecast shortfall and the need to offer more aggressive promotions. This led also to needing to have enough manufacturing capacity in order to meet the end-of-quarter rush ... capacity which was significantly under-utilized at other portions of the quarter, contributing to gross margin erosion. And that's just one example and a brief examination of the consequences of a "sales culture". There were many other consequences within SGI, but it would be boring to belabor them here. The funny (weird) thing about the SGI decline was that when I joined the company in 1993, they clearly stated their gross margin targets in employee meeting and the expected gross revenue per employee needed in order to continue the business, basic research, product development, etc. In a very few short years they had lost all sight of this corporate revenue model and the executive team ran the company off a cliff. So yes, what Dan elucidates as what he believes is the correct revenue model for Emotiva is a Good Thing™. With clear and transparent guidelines, everyone in the company can use them as touch stones for measuring whether their activities match the companies needs. Casey [[ Edit P.S.: At SGI we used to call this horrible sales funnel shape as the Quarter Hockey Stick ... ]] Hi Casey, I remember you from SGI too (especially the dinners at La Fiesta on Wednesdays :-). I didn't know you were an Emotiva Audiophile too ! Ping me on my samba.org email address if you want to visit and listen to my audio setups :-). j r a @ samba.org Jeremy.
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Post by teaman on Apr 6, 2017 19:57:40 GMT -5
I personally am happy to see this move. Everything Dan said is true regarding winners & losers, etc. There are lots of ways to generate sales — create good products, have a good customer service experience, loan equipment out for professional reviews, and even a bit of advertising. Offering sales hurts the gross margin profit plan and creates weird bubbles in finances. I once worked for a company, Silicon Graphics, Inc. (SGI) which got stuck in a mode of always needing to make sales targets at the end of each quarter so the sales staff would be given order to engage in all sorts of promotional activities near the ends of the quarters. The customers figured this out and started holding off purchases till near the end of the quarter which only exacerbated the quarter end sales forecast shortfall and the need to offer more aggressive promotions. This led also to needing to have enough manufacturing capacity in order to meet the end-of-quarter rush ... capacity which was significantly under-utilized at other portions of the quarter, contributing to gross margin erosion. And that's just one example and a brief examination of the consequences of a "sales culture". There were many other consequences within SGI, but it would be boring to belabor them here. The funny (weird) thing about the SGI decline was that when I joined the company in 1993, they clearly stated their gross margin targets in employee meeting and the expected gross revenue per employee needed in order to continue the business, basic research, product development, etc. In a very few short years they had lost all sight of this corporate revenue model and the executive team ran the company off a cliff. So yes, what Dan elucidates as what he believes is the correct revenue model for Emotiva is a Good Thing™. With clear and transparent guidelines, everyone in the company can use them as touch stones for measuring whether their activities match the companies needs. Casey [[ Edit P.S.: At SGI we used to call this horrible sales funnel shape as the Quarter Hockey Stick ... ]] Hi Casey, I remember you from SGI too (especially the dinners at La Fiesta on Wednesdays :-). I didn't know you were an Emotiva Audiophile too ! Ping me on my samba.org email address if you want to visit and listen to my audio setups :-). j r a @ samba.org Jeremy. Who needs match.com?............ The Emotiva Lounge, reuniting friendships!
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Post by copperpipe on Apr 6, 2017 20:03:02 GMT -5
Hi Casey, I remember you from SGI too (especially the dinners at La Fiesta on Wednesdays :-). I didn't know you were an Emotiva Audiophile too ! Ping me on my samba.org email address if you want to visit and listen to my audio setups :-). j r a @ samba.org Jeremy. Holy smokes, you're that Jeremy? Just let me say "THANKs!" for all your work on samba. Had no idea that was you, but I (and many others of course) use your software every hour of every day! I would imagine reverse engineering stuff from msft must give you guys migraines
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Post by truelight on Apr 6, 2017 20:52:29 GMT -5
This may also have something to do with "Dan" NEW SALE'S Attitude. www.avsforum.com/emotiva-public-debut-of-basx-xpa-three-mb-amp-airmotiv-t2-towers-axpona-2017/In related news, Emotiva has appointed AV industry vet Walter Schofield to the newly created position of VP, Global Strategy. Mr. Schofield—who comes from SVS Sound, and previously worked at Meridian and Harman International, will be charged with growing Emotiva’s business-to-business as well as consumer sales efforts while expanding to new markets. QUOTE: Son if you don't understand or it seems a little peculiar its always about MONEY, My Dad!
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Post by jra on Apr 6, 2017 21:38:14 GMT -5
Hi Casey, I remember you from SGI too (especially the dinners at La Fiesta on Wednesdays :-). I didn't know you were an Emotiva Audiophile too ! Ping me on my samba.org email address if you want to visit and listen to my audio setups :-). j r a @ samba.org Jeremy. Holy smokes, you're that Jeremy? Just let me say "THANKs!" for all your work on samba. Had no idea that was you, but I (and many others of course) use your software every hour of every day! I would imagine reverse engineering stuff from msft must give you guys migraines Yes that's me. It's a lot less fun now Microsoft document everything :-). Let's not derail the thread though so I won't respond on that topic again !
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Apr 6, 2017 21:49:01 GMT -5
I DID want to eliminate the sale thing couple of years ago and I blinked. I've been kicking myself ever since. I am perfectly fine with eliminating sales. But, please don't tell me this ends the free hot fudge sundaes (only provided for customers prior to 2009). Tomorrow is my expected delivery day...hoping 3 pm that I get me fix.... Mark
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Post by adaboy on Apr 6, 2017 21:49:04 GMT -5
Meh... Kinda getting tired of this crap. Prices have been rising since I started purchasing gear from emotiva and can't really say quality has gotten better from China made to US made...
Prices WERE increased for the dealer model... don't forget about that. Not really about rising costs of electronics... Not sure other stuff is rising in price at the same ratio as is being told here.
I get it, their business their ball. But they need to remember that when you start nearing prices of other reputable brands that is where heads will turn towards. It happened to me with the processor and if I didn't already have emo amps I would likely have gone other routes.
I think I'm beginning to like the old Emotiva not the new "class H" brand they are seeking to become.
Who knows..
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