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Post by vneal on Oct 5, 2016 6:56:27 GMT -5
$1699
$1999
someone want to explain the differences & if these features are needed
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Post by junchoon on Oct 5, 2016 8:19:40 GMT -5
Dan and the bean counters there have really messed up the loyalty of existing international owners to the point of killing any repeat buyers if you ask me. It a sad situation as Emotiva had such a lot going for it over the past 6-7 years - now most of that advantage is now lost. Still at least it widens the options for most buyers now as there is more to choose from in the higher price brackets Emotiva is now forced to play in in markets where they now have local distributors. Maybe they will rethink this silliness one day. I honestly think emotiva owe us nothing - they have the prerogative to decide on what is best for them. But this yo-yo, ding-donging of prices sure make us dizzy |
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Post by creimes on Oct 5, 2016 9:00:34 GMT -5
Dan and the bean counters there have really messed up the loyalty of existing international owners to the point of killing any repeat buyers if you ask me. It a sad situation as Emotiva had such a lot going for it over the past 6-7 years - now most of that advantage is now lost. Still at least it widens the options for most buyers now as there is more to choose from in the higher price brackets Emotiva is now forced to play in in markets where they now have local distributors. Maybe they will rethink this silliness one day. "Rethink High-End" has now been changed to "Rethink The-Silliness"  |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Oct 5, 2016 11:59:26 GMT -5
WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE......
OK, here goes.....
The original XMC-1 - with no upgrades - can pass 4k video up to 4k/60 (and is technically HDMI 2.0).
However, the original XMC-1 does not support HDCP 2.2 COPY PROTECTION - which is required in order to pass 4k UHD video.
(4k UHD video is the video standard for commercial 4k video Blu-Ray discs and cable broadcasts).
This means that the original XMC-1 can pass 4k video from something like an upsampling player, but will not pass video from, for example, a 4k UHD Blu-Ray disc.
We have just (a few weeks ago) released an UPGRADE - in the form of a replacement video board - that adds support to the XMC-1 for HDCP 2.2 on one input and one output.
In other words, with the update, you can connect one 4k UHD device to one input on the XMC-1.
All "new regular" XMC-1's currently shipping INCLUDE this update (those are the ones currently on sale for $1999) - this is now a "standard XMC-1" unless it says otherwise.
It is also available as an upgrade for ANY XMC-1 that doesn't already have it (it is free if you paid the full $2499 list price for your XMC-1; otherwise it's $349 with shipping).
HOWEVER, we have a few units in stock that were produced before the upgrade became standard.
And, since some people don't have 4k, and have no immediate plans to upgrade to it, we decided to sell those units at a discount instead of upgrading them.
So, until we run out, you can buy an XMC-1 without the upgrade at a $300 discount..... (those are the $1699 ones).
You can always come back and buy the upgrade later... ANY XMC-1 ever made CAN be upgraded.
(Just to make life even more interesting, there will be another HDMI upgrade available in a few months - probably December or January -
which will upgrade the XMC-1 to accept the latest 4k UHD HDR video on ALL of its inputs and outputs. We don't have details on the pricing of that upgrade yet... but it is on the way. )
The BOTTOM LINE is that the $1699 version is a GREAT deal if you don't need 4k right now, and plan to wait until "the dust settles" with all the 4k options.
You'll end up with an XMC-1 that works really great with HD right now - and then you'll be able to buy whatever upgrade you need later once you decide how (or if) you're getting into 4k....
$1699 $1999 someone want to explain the differences & if these features are needed
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Post by geebo on Oct 5, 2016 12:03:12 GMT -5
WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE......
OK, here goes.....
The original XMC-1 - with no upgrades - can pass 4k video up to 4k/60 (and is technically HDMI 2.0).
However, the original XMC-1 does not support HDCP 2.2 COPY PROTECTION - which is required in order to pass 4k UHD video.
(4k UHD video is the video standard for commercial 4k video Blu-Ray discs and cable broadcasts).
This means that the original XMC-1 can pass 4k video from something like an upsampling player, but will not pass video from, for example, a 4k UHD Blu-Ray disc.
We have just (a few weeks ago) released an UPGRADE - in the form of a replacement video board - that adds support to the XMC-1 for HDCP 2.2 on one input and one output.
In other words, with the update, you can connect one 4k UHD device to one input on the XMC-1.
All "new regular" XMC-1's currently shipping INCLUDE this update (those are the ones currently on sale for $1999) - this is now a "standard XMC-1" unless it says otherwise.
It is also available as an upgrade for ANY XMC-1 that doesn't already have it (it is free if you paid the full $2499 list price for your XMC-1; otherwise it's $349 with shipping).
HOWEVER, we have a few units in stock that were produced before the upgrade became standard.
And, since some people don't have 4k, and have no immediate plans to upgrade to it, we decided to sell those units at a discount instead of upgrading them.
So, until we run out, you can buy an XMC-1 without the upgrade at a $300 discount..... (those are the $1699 ones).
You can always come back and buy the upgrade later... ANY XMC-1 ever made CAN be upgraded.
(Just to make life even more interesting, there will be another HDMI upgrade available in a few months - probably December or January -
which will upgrade the XMC-1 to accept the latest 4k UHD HDR video on ALL of its inputs and outputs. We don't have details on the pricing of that upgrade yet... but it is on the way. )
The BOTTOM LINE is that the $1699 version is a GREAT deal if you don't need 4k right now, and plan to wait until "the dust settles" with all the 4k options.
You'll end up with an XMC-1 that works really great with HD right now - and then you'll be able to buy whatever upgrade you need later once you decide how (or if) you're getting into 4k....
$1699 $1999 someone want to explain the differences & if these features are needed Out of curiosity, do the two versions have different firmwares? |
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Post by garbulky on Oct 5, 2016 14:06:32 GMT -5
I thought the XMC-1 was HDMI 1.4 with 4k @ 28hz @ 8 bit. While HDMI 2 could do 4k/60 hz and also do 12 bit color with it. HDMI 2 also supports twin video streams. So it's HDMI 1.4. The similarity is that they can both do 4k. www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/hdmi-2-0-vs-1-4 |
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Post by geebo on Oct 5, 2016 15:01:43 GMT -5
I thought the XMC-1 was HDMI 1.4 with 4k @ 28hz @ 8 bit. While HDMI 2 could do 4k/60 hz and also do 12 bit color with it. HDMI 2 also supports twin video streams. So it's HDMI 1.4. The similarity is that they can both do 4k. www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/hdmi-2-0-vs-1-4The original XMC can pass 4K 60Hz unprotected material like that from an Oppo BDP-103 while performing upscaling. I've done it. It would not pass 4K protected material from something like the 4K Fire TV. After the HDMI upgrade it handles that 4K protected content fine for one input and one output. |
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Post by garbulky on Oct 5, 2016 15:02:32 GMT -5
I thought the XMC-1 was HDMI 1.4 with 4k @ 28hz @ 8 bit. While HDMI 2 could do 4k/60 hz and also do 12 bit color with it. HDMI 2 also supports twin video streams. So it's HDMI 1.4. The similarity is that they can both do 4k. www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/hdmi-2-0-vs-1-4The original XMC can pass 4K 60Hz unprotected material like that from an Oppo BDP-103 while performing upscaling. I've done it. It would not pass 4K protected material from something like the 4K Fire TV. After the upgrade it handles that 4K protected content fine for one input and one output. Oh interesting! |
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Post by Jessica on Oct 5, 2016 15:15:16 GMT -5
Dan and the bean counters there have really messed up the loyalty of existing international owners to the point of killing any repeat buyers if you ask me. It a sad situation as Emotiva had such a lot going for it over the past 6-7 years - now most of that advantage is now lost. Still at least it widens the options for most buyers now as there is more to choose from in the higher price brackets Emotiva is now forced to play in in markets where they now have local distributors. Maybe they will rethink this silliness one day. Thank you for the feedback. Our international distributors offer local service and support. Currently, if you bought from us direct Internationally, your unit must come back to the USA for service, and you cover the shipping expenses both ways. With product warranties lasting five years, and there's an array of possible reasons products need to come back in for service. There is a risk that you may have to ship your product back to us if anything should go wrong. Our best hope is that nothing happens, and we have great confidence in our products. However, things do happen on the occasion. We've found that customers are more frustrated and upset when they need to service or return than they are buying with local support and service. |
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Post by vneal on Oct 5, 2016 16:34:32 GMT -5
Thinking about the explanations above for a unit at this cost the upgraded 1999$ looks to be the ticket
or $1874.25 for me(UFL)
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,867
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Post by LCSeminole on Oct 5, 2016 17:42:34 GMT -5
I thought the XMC-1 was HDMI 1.4 with 4k @ 28hz @ 8 bit. While HDMI 2 could do 4k/60 hz and also do 12 bit color with it. HDMI 2 also supports twin video streams. So it's HDMI 1.4. The similarity is that they can both do 4k. www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/hdmi-2-0-vs-1-4The original XMC can pass 4K 60Hz unprotected material like that from an Oppo BDP-103 while performing upscaling. I've done it. It would not pass 4K protected material from something like the 4K Fire TV. After the HDMI upgrade it handles that 4K protected content fine for one input and one output. Since you've actually tested this, I appreciate you clarifying that!  |
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 5, 2016 17:44:31 GMT -5
Dan and the bean counters there have really messed up the loyalty of existing international owners to the point of killing any repeat buyers if you ask me. It a sad situation as Emotiva had such a lot going for it over the past 6-7 years - now most of that advantage is now lost. Still at least it widens the options for most buyers now as there is more to choose from in the higher price brackets Emotiva is now forced to play in in markets where they now have local distributors. Maybe they will rethink this silliness one day. Thank you for the feedback. Our international distributors offer local service and support. Currently, if you bought from us direct Internationally, your unit must come back to the USA for service, and you cover the shipping expenses both ways. With product warranties lasting five years, and there's an array of possible reasons products need to come back in for service. There is a risk that you may have to ship your product back to us if anything should go wrong. Our best hope is that nothing happens, and we have great confidence in our products. However, things do happen on the occasion. We've found that customers are more frustrated and upset when they need to service or return than they are buying with local support and service. I think we understand that view Jess, but from our perspective with a $US1,699 direct price and a $A3,999 local price I could make 2 trips to Franklin for warranty repairs and have a couple of weeks holiday in the US while I'm there. Or I could buy 2 x XMC-1's and have one sitting in the cupboard as a spare. That's the reality, local warranty simply isn't worth the cost. Cheers Gary |
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Post by geebo on Oct 5, 2016 17:57:10 GMT -5
The original XMC can pass 4K 60Hz unprotected material like that from an Oppo BDP-103 while performing upscaling. I've done it. It would not pass 4K protected material from something like the 4K Fire TV. After the HDMI upgrade it handles that 4K protected content fine for one input and one output. Since you've actually tested this, I appreciate you clarifying that! My pleasure. |
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edrummereasye
Sensei
"This aggression will not stand, man!"
Posts: 438
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Post by edrummereasye on Oct 5, 2016 18:07:43 GMT -5
The original XMC can pass 4K 60Hz unprotected material like that from an Oppo BDP-103 while performing upscaling. I've done it. It would not pass 4K protected material from something like the 4K Fire TV. After the upgrade it handles that 4K protected content fine for one input and one output. Oh interesting! I think that's why there was some confusion right before release time... IIRC, it was announced as HDMI 2.0, but Dan quickly decided that the implementation didn't meet the full 2.0 spec, thus 1.4b was more accurate. |
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Post by wizardofoz on Oct 6, 2016 7:05:08 GMT -5
Dan and the bean counters there have really messed up the loyalty of existing international owners to the point of killing any repeat buyers if you ask me. It a sad situation as Emotiva had such a lot going for it over the past 6-7 years - now most of that advantage is now lost. Still at least it widens the options for most buyers now as there is more to choose from in the higher price brackets Emotiva is now forced to play in in markets where they now have local distributors. Maybe they will rethink this silliness one day. Thank you for the feedback. Our international distributors offer local service and support. Currently, if you bought from us direct Internationally, your unit must come back to the USA for service, and you cover the shipping expenses both ways. With product warranties lasting five years, and there's an array of possible reasons products need to come back in for service. There is a risk that you may have to ship your product back to us if anything should go wrong. Our best hope is that nothing happens, and we have great confidence in our products. However, things do happen on the occasion. We've found that customers are more frustrated and upset when they need to service or return than they are buying with local support and service. Jessica I'm sure you have been around way long enough that you would know I have done 99% of all the Emotiva warranty repairs in Singapore and even some of them at Emotiva's request. So I spent 6-7 years doing International support for you guys...Nobody ever complained about the support I gave them with support from the likes of Joe Snr back in Franklin. Not to mention several group buys in the US$10'000's of dollars that I and others were responsible for with many many happy owners. Those days are now gone too. There is no such thing as 5 years warranty any more at our Singapore dealer...maybe 2 years is all you get here in Singapore...whats with that? Is there something they are not telling us? The local retail price of a 3B speaker is S$360 ... does that sound fair now that you can get one locally in the USA for something S$135? So no sales reflected outside of the USA, No discount cards honoured - correct me if I am wrong, No Member for life...Nothing to smile about when we get the emails saying sale this and discounted that...its doom and gloom - may as well unsubscribe your mailings too. So what do we faithful buyers of Emotiva in the past in the rest of the world have to look forward to with Emotiva taking the direction its has? No much as far as I can tell Sorry to be telling it like I see it but I'm not one to mince my words. I thought Emotiva was better than this...it used to be but sadly times have changed and many of us will just move on. |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,276
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Post by KeithL on Oct 6, 2016 8:32:23 GMT -5
Yes and no. We have just released a new version of firmware to go with the new board. The new firmware is NECESSARY if you want the new board to work properly (and is installed as part of the upgrade). It will also officially become "the current version" - BUT IT MAKES NO REAL DIFFERENCE IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE NEW BOARD. The firmware update isn't so much "part of the upgrade" as just "something the new board needs to work". It works fine with the original board - but won't make any difference in how it works. (However, since we don't plan to maintain two different versions of the firmware, the new version will become "the" firmware going forward.) WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE......
OK, here goes.....
The original XMC-1 - with no upgrades - can pass 4k video up to 4k/60 (and is technically HDMI 2.0).
However, the original XMC-1 does not support HDCP 2.2 COPY PROTECTION - which is required in order to pass 4k UHD video.
(4k UHD video is the video standard for commercial 4k video Blu-Ray discs and cable broadcasts).
This means that the original XMC-1 can pass 4k video from something like an upsampling player, but will not pass video from, for example, a 4k UHD Blu-Ray disc.
We have just (a few weeks ago) released an UPGRADE - in the form of a replacement video board - that adds support to the XMC-1 for HDCP 2.2 on one input and one output.
In other words, with the update, you can connect one 4k UHD device to one input on the XMC-1.
All "new regular" XMC-1's currently shipping INCLUDE this update (those are the ones currently on sale for $1999) - this is now a "standard XMC-1" unless it says otherwise.
It is also available as an upgrade for ANY XMC-1 that doesn't already have it (it is free if you paid the full $2499 list price for your XMC-1; otherwise it's $349 with shipping).
HOWEVER, we have a few units in stock that were produced before the upgrade became standard.
And, since some people don't have 4k, and have no immediate plans to upgrade to it, we decided to sell those units at a discount instead of upgrading them.
So, until we run out, you can buy an XMC-1 without the upgrade at a $300 discount..... (those are the $1699 ones).
You can always come back and buy the upgrade later... ANY XMC-1 ever made CAN be upgraded.
(Just to make life even more interesting, there will be another HDMI upgrade available in a few months - probably December or January -
which will upgrade the XMC-1 to accept the latest 4k UHD HDR video on ALL of its inputs and outputs. We don't have details on the pricing of that upgrade yet... but it is on the way. )
The BOTTOM LINE is that the $1699 version is a GREAT deal if you don't need 4k right now, and plan to wait until "the dust settles" with all the 4k options.
You'll end up with an XMC-1 that works really great with HD right now - and then you'll be able to buy whatever upgrade you need later once you decide how (or if) you're getting into 4k....
Out of curiosity, do the two versions have different firmwares? |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,276
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Post by KeithL on Oct 6, 2016 8:55:03 GMT -5
The HDMI standards can be somewhat complicated - and sometimes include things that are mandatory and things that are optional. The HDMI 2.0 spec is a transport spec. HDMI 2.0 REQUIRES a 9 Gbps bandwidth, and does NOT require HDCP 2.2 support (the faster 18 Gbps video is optional with HDMI 2.0) With HDMI 1.4b, the HDCP support is part of the spec; with HDMI 2.0 it is not (hey, we didn't write it  ). The 4k UHD video spec is tied to the content; it's what you need to play 4k UHD Blu-Ray discs and 4k UHD content from cable and satellite or streaming providers. It is the 4k UHD video spec that requires the HDCP 2.2 copy protection - for example, the 4k video from an upsampling player, or a video file on a stick, shouldn't require it.. (In order to play 4k UHD video, you need BOTH HDMI 2.0 AND HDCP 2.2 ) The original XMC-1 actually meets the HDMI 2.0 spec but, since many people assume (incorrectly) that any equipment that is HDMI 2.0 compliant will also pass 4k UHD content, it seemed less confusing to mis-state the situation by just saying that the XMC-1 was HDMI 1.4b, rather than have people assume something that wasn't true - and be dissatisfied when their XMC-1 wouldn't play 4k UHD content (because of backwards compatibility, the original XMC-1 is both HDMI 1.4b and HDMI 2.0 compatible). The current HDMI upgrade board for the XMC-1 has the same video switching capabilities as the previous one; what's been added is the separate processor required to support HDCP 2.2 . The newer HDMI 2.0a and HDMI 2.0b specs, which support different HDR implementations, have additional requirements - including the fact that 18 Gbps becomes mandatory rather than optional. (That's one reason why we have another HDMI upgrade in the works - it will use newer switches that support the "higher" formats.) And, lest you get comfortable, HDMI 2.1 is due for release around the end of the year (and no details there yet whether it will do anything we all care about or not).  (This is all the reason why upgradability is so important.) I thought the XMC-1 was HDMI 1.4 with 4k @ 28hz @ 8 bit. While HDMI 2 could do 4k/60 hz and also do 12 bit color with it. HDMI 2 also supports twin video streams. So it's HDMI 1.4. The similarity is that they can both do 4k. www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/hdmi-2-0-vs-1-4 |
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Post by mick on Oct 6, 2016 9:03:53 GMT -5
Thank you for the feedback. Our international distributors offer local service and support. Currently, if you bought from us direct Internationally, your unit must come back to the USA for service, and you cover the shipping expenses both ways. With product warranties lasting five years, and there's an array of possible reasons products need to come back in for service. There is a risk that you may have to ship your product back to us if anything should go wrong. Our best hope is that nothing happens, and we have great confidence in our products. However, things do happen on the occasion. We've found that customers are more frustrated and upset when they need to service or return than they are buying with local support and service. I think we understand that view Jess, but from our perspective with a $US1,699 direct price and a $A3,999 local price I could make 2 trips to Franklin for warranty repairs and have a couple of weeks holiday in the US while I'm there. Or I could buy 2 x XMC-1's and have one sitting in the cupboard as a spare. That's the reality, local warranty simply isn't worth the cost. Cheers Gary Totally agree Gary, I think Jess has missed the point, its all about cost. |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,276
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Post by KeithL on Oct 6, 2016 9:33:18 GMT -5
The HDMI 2.0 spec is confusing to a lot of people...... As I said in my longer post, the real problem is that, while the XMC-1 actually was fully compliant with HDMI 2.0, most of our customers were under the false impression that "all HDMI 2.0 products will play 4k Blu-Ray discs and 4k broadcasts". Unfortunately, both TV and AV equipment manufacturers helped to continue this confusion by referring to various 4k UHD products simply as "HDMI 2.0". This led to a lot of confusion about "4k products that wouldn't work with other 4k products" and "HDMI 2.0 products that wouldn't work with the latest 4k players". If we had said that the XMC-1 was "HDMI 2.0 compliant", even though that would have been technically correct, we would have had customers who were disappointed when it wouldn't work with their 4k UHD disc player or cable box. Therefore, to avoid confusion, and convey the facts in simplest terms, we chose simply to not make the claim (the XMC-1 is technically BOTH HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 1.4b compliant). I think that's why there was some confusion right before release time... IIRC, it was announced as HDMI 2.0, but Dan quickly decided that the implementation didn't meet the full 2.0 spec, thus 1.4b was more accurate. |
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Post by creimes on Oct 6, 2016 9:36:52 GMT -5
So one can currently upgrade to the new 2.0 2.2 board now but then there will be another new board released soon that does HDR, why not just wait for that board then ?? am I missing something, like how many HDMI boards does one need to buy to keep up with the emerging and ever non stop releases of HDMI specs. I myself unless I win the lotto will be using my trusty ol 7020 with 1.4 for a long time as it seems you are either rich or stupid to continuously try and keep up with the latest and greatest in audio video. The HDMI standards can be somewhat complicated - and sometimes include things that are mandatory and things that are optional. The HDMI 2.0 spec is a transport spec. HDMI 2.0 REQUIRES a 9 Gbps bandwidth, and does NOT require HDCP 2.2 support (the faster 18 Gbps video is optional with HDMI 2.0) With HDMI 1.4b, the HDCP support is part of the spec; with HDMI 2.0 it is not (hey, we didn't write it ). The 4k UHD video spec is tied to the content; it's what you need to play 4k UHD Blu-Ray discs and 4k UHD content from cable and satellite or streaming providers. It is the 4k UHD video spec that requires the HDCP 2.2 copy protection - for example, the 4k video from an upsampling player, or a video file on a stick, shouldn't require it.. (In order to play 4k UHD video, you need BOTH HDMI 2.0 AND HDCP 2.2 ) The original XMC-1 actually meets the HDMI 2.0 spec but, since many people assume (incorrectly) that any equipment that is HDMI 2.0 compliant will also pass 4k UHD content, it seemed less confusing to mis-state the situation by just saying that the XMC-1 was HDMI 1.4b, rather than have people assume something that wasn't true - and be dissatisfied when their XMC-1 wouldn't play 4k UHD content (because of backwards compatibility, the original XMC-1 is both HDMI 1.4b and HDMI 2.0 compatible). The current HDMI upgrade board for the XMC-1 has the same video switching capabilities as the previous one; what's been added is the separate processor required to support HDCP 2.2 . The newer HDMI 2.0a and HDMI 2.0b specs, which support different HDR implementations, have additional requirements - including the fact that 18 Gbps becomes mandatory rather than optional. (That's one reason why we have another HDMI upgrade in the works - it will use newer switches that support the "higher" formats.) And, lest you get comfortable, HDMI 2.1 is due for release around the end of the year (and no details there yet whether it will do anything we all care about or not). (This is all the reason why upgradability is so important.) I thought the XMC-1 was HDMI 1.4 with 4k @ 28hz @ 8 bit. While HDMI 2 could do 4k/60 hz and also do 12 bit color with it. HDMI 2 also supports twin video streams. So it's HDMI 1.4. The similarity is that they can both do 4k. www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/hdmi-2-0-vs-1-4 |
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