XMC-2 gen 3 !

[garbulky]

In case anybody missed this....

Nov 26, 2016 11:47:15 GMT -5 Dan Laufman said:

Hi kids,
Lets keep it simple..

XMC-1 even with all of its upgrades is a Gen 2 product. We have no intention of discontinuing it as long as there is demand for it. Not everyone cares about Atmos and DTS-X!!

The upcoming XMC-2 G3 will have 7.2.4 capability wth all outputs balanced. There will be other small additions too, but basically it's the same as the XMC-1 with a new main audio board. "Differential Reference" circuitry on the 3 main front channels! Upgraded DACs and DA conversion, etc, etc.

The RMC-1 G3 is the flagship AVP. 9.3.4 with all channels fully balanced. This unit has our "Differential Reference" audio path on all 16 channels! It uses the latest AKM 32 bit 768k AD's and DAC's. It's a monster. Everything is no holds barred. This is going to be the one to beat at ANY price.

There you go!

Peace out,
Big Dan

Also

Nov 26, 2016 13:10:27 GMT -5 Dan Laufman said:

OK, OK...

Let me make this clear...

The XMC-1 will upgrade to 7.2.4, but it will re-purpose some of the RCA outputs to achieve this functionality. We've discussed this before. That's why it remains the G2 XMC-1. We'll continue to enhance and support this platform for the long run. Dirac Live will be implemented on all new outputs. But even with the upgrades, it will always be G2.

The NEW XMC-2 G3 will have ALL balanced outputs. Full Dirac Live will operate at 96K on this model and it will be standard with purchase. Unlike the XMC-1 which has the L & R channels "fully balanced", the XMC-2 will have L,R,& C "fully balanced" This is what we refer to as "Differential Reference". In Differential Reference mode, there is no single ended to balanced conversion. It's FULLY DIFFERENTIAL from input to output. Including volume controls, DAC's, everything!

The RMC-1 G3 wil have Full Dirac Live on all outputs and it will most likely operate at 192k. We're checking MIP's requirements at the moment, but we should be OK. Again, it will be standard with purchase. And all 16 outputs will operate in Differential Reference mode with the finest components available.

OK?

Cheers,
Big Dan

From what I gather : XMC-2 gen 3 will have all XLR (no using an RCA for atmos) and the front three channels are balanced.

[LCSeminole]

Nov 26, 2016 16:23:55 GMT -5 garbulky said:

From what I gather : XMC-2 gen 3 will have all XLR (no using an RCA for atmos) and the front three channels are balanced.

Yep, that's what I believe he clearly stated.

[sahmen]

So is XMC-1 Gen 2 upgradable to XMC-2 Gen 3? I always assumed that will be the case until I read the following line from Dan : "XMC-1 even with all of its upgrades is a Gen 2 product"? Really? "..all of its upgrades?" I have been planning on getting the up and coming HDMI 2.0a/HDCP 2.2/Atmos/DTS-X upgrade, thinking that it will bring my XMC-1 to full XMC-2 Gen 3 status.  Will someone explain to me how wrong or right I am?

[The History Kid]

I'm just sore that the XMC-1L idea got canned. Booooooo...

[mickseymour]

Nov 26, 2016 20:35:39 GMT -5 sahmen said:

So is XMC-1 Gen 2 upgradable to XMC-2 Gen 3? I always assumed that will be the case until I read the following line from Dan : "XMC-1 even with all of its upgrades is a Gen 2 product"? Really? "..all of its upgrades?" I have been planning on getting the up and coming HDMI 2.0a/HDCP 2.2/Atmos/DTS-X upgrade, thinking that it will bring my XMC-1 to full XMC-2 Gen 3 status.  Will someone explain to me how wrong or right I am?

My understanding:

XMC-1 G2, the current processor, will be upgradable with new HDMI 2.0a board and a new DSP board with Atmos/DTS-X decoding early 2017. Dirac will still run at 24/48k. No other upgrades have been announced at this time although that does not mean there will not be any. It will still be called an XMC-1 G2.

XMC-2 G3 is a new processor, not available as a parts upgrade to the XMC-1 G2. All outputs are balanced. Dirac will run at 24/96k.

RMC-1 G3 will be a beast.

I don't need the immersive formats and have not gone UHD yet but was hoping for 24/96k Dirac with the XMC-1 G2 upgrade. Looks like I can save the $700 upgrade plus the $300 it will cost me to ship both ways from Spain and put it towards a new XMC-2 G3 when it comes out. So that's $1000 dollars I would have spent anyway, the 25% UFL and the resale value on the XMC-1 G2: I'll be a happy bunny.

[AudioHTIT]

Nov 26, 2016 20:35:39 GMT -5 sahmen said:

So is XMC-1 Gen 2 upgradable to XMC-2 Gen 3? I always assumed that will be the case until I read the following line from Dan : "XMC-1 even with all of its upgrades is a Gen 2 product"? Really? "..all of its upgrades?" I have been planning on getting the up and coming HDMI 2.0a/HDCP 2.2/Atmos/DTS-X upgrade, thinking that it will bring my XMC-1 to full XMC-2 Gen 3 status.  Will someone explain to me how wrong or right I am?

I might say that the XMC-1 G2 w/upgrades, will have all the functionality of the XMC-2 G3, that is: 7.2.4, HDMI 2.0x/HDCP 2.2. The XMC-2 G3 however will have some additional features: differential center, all balanced outputs, 96/24 Dirac. So they can generally do the same thing, but the newer box benefits from advances in engineering.

This assumes the multi port HDMI board will be part of the G2 upgrade path, which has been said here repeatedly.

[Deleted]

Woah. Where was This all stated. Either way. If the price is right in in!!!

[Assy]

I am very happy with my xmc-1....... But thinking about atmos too, so this is not going to be easy. But when is eta?
And what pricerange will we be talking about? Gotta have it

[AudioHTIT]

Nov 27, 2016 14:11:24 GMT -5 Assy said:

I am very happy with my xmc-1....... But thinking about atmos too, so this is not going to be easy. But when is eta?
And what pricerange will we be talking about? Gotta have it

We once heard a price of $3000, I always assumed that was for an upgraded XMC-1, and we were never sure if that included both the Atmos and multi-port HDMI/HDCP boards, but it seemed possible it did. Now I suppose we could hope the XMC-2 comes in near there, but we'll just have to wait and see.

[bolle]

It would still be nice to be able to get 96kHz DIRAC for the XMC-1...

[Bonzo]

Nice, and cool to hear. But it does still crack me up. Yet more Emotiva mind changing (and name changing). I've learned and know better now. I'll just kick back and see what really ends up coming to fruition.

[Lsc]

Technology doesn't stand still and I think emotiva did a great job of keeping their word and making the XMC-1 upgradeable per their original promise. So those of us who bought the 7.2 XMC-1 do not have an obsolete processor. There is a clear upgrade path.

Now, this shouldn't mean that Emotiva has to stick to the XMC-1s architecture as the go forward platform especially if they have an opportunity to produce a more competitive product. It would be silly if they did.

The XMC-1 that a lot of us bought almost 3 years ago should still sound just as outstanding as it has for the last 3 years and will continue to sound just as great for years to come.

The XMC-2 gen3 is interesting to me bc I have a chance thanks to emotiva to maybe improve on my trusted XMC-1 without going all out for the RMC-1 (never intended to get it). I'll have to weigh the pros and cons (cost) when it's released.

[Bonzo]

I just read the original thread. Yet more classic stuff. One comment read improperly (misinterpreted) and over exaggerated, and the blue cool aid group piles on as usual. Doesn't matter who starts the pile on, a forum member or Emotiva. Whatever.

Back on topic. The news itself is great, with no pitfalls for us consumer as I see it. Only more options and better stuff. Thanks Emotiva.

But the confusion, as to what everything is, remains, and can no longer be simple I'm afraid. There have been (are coming) too many upgrade options to the XMC-1 to keep it simple. The nomenclature is getting (has gotten) blurred. I think the entire "Gen" thing is most of the problem.

- XMC-1 Gen 2 (previously officially told to us by Dan himself as the XMC-1 Gen 3 because the original version was Gen 2). And now it's being said that it will always be Gen 2?
- XMC-2 Gen 3 (this thing is all new, so why is it called Gen 3?)
- RMC-1 Gen 3 (again, what's with calling it Gen 3? There is no RMC-1 Gen 1 or Gen 2.)

Why not just do something like this (please correct any upgrades I may have missed as this is just for example)?

-1 = Model
.1 = Firmware
Letter = Physical Upgrade

XMC-1 = Original
XMC-1.1 = Firmware Upgrade 1
XMC-1.2 = Firmware Upgrade 2
XMC-1.3 = Firmware Upgrade 3
XMC-1.3.a = Single HDMI upgrade
XMC-1.3.b = Multiple HDMI upgrade
XMC-1.3.c = Atmos/DTS Upgrade

(and then for example, models with everything could be called something like XMC-1.3.bc)

XMC-2 = Original new processor. Any future upgrades would follow the same, like for example, XMC-2.5.fh

RMC-3 = Original new processor. Same goes for the upgrades.

Just a suggestion trying to help.

[Loop 7]

Dan Laufman

I can see why this race to support connectivity revisions and formats drove Parasound out of the processor business.

I have great respect for the way Emotiva handles rapidly changing technology.

I'm stuck in the dark ages with a high end 1080p plasma and 5.1.

[garbulky]

Nov 28, 2016 15:06:51 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

I just read the original thread. Yet more classic stuff. One comment read improperly (misinterpreted) and over exaggerated, and the blue cool aid group piles on as usual. Doesn't matter who starts the pile on, a forum member or Emotiva. Whatever.

Back on topic. The news itself is great, with no pitfalls for us consumer as I see it. Only more options and better stuff. Thanks Emotiva.

But the confusion, as to what everything is, remains, and can no longer be simple I'm afraid. There have been (are coming) too many upgrade options to the XMC-1 to keep it simple. The nomenclature is getting (has gotten) blurred. I think the entire "Gen" thing is most of the problem.

- XMC-1 Gen 2 (previously officially told to us by Dan himself as the XMC-1 Gen 3 because the original version was Gen 2). And now it's being said that it will always be Gen 2?
- XMC-2 Gen 3 (this thing is all new, so why is it called Gen 3?)
- RMC-1 Gen 3 (again, what's with calling it Gen 3? There is no RMC-1 Gen 1 or Gen 2.)

Why not just do something like this (please correct any upgrades I may have missed as this is just for example)?

-1 = Model
.1 = Firmware
Letter = Physical Upgrade

XMC-1 = Original
XMC-1.1 = Firmware Upgrade 1
XMC-1.2 = Firmware Upgrade 2
XMC-1.3 = Firmware Upgrade 3
XMC-1.3.a = Single HDMI upgrade
XMC-1.3.b = Multiple HDMI upgrade
XMC-1.3.c = Atmos/DTS Upgrade

(and then for example, models with everything could be called something like XMC-1.3.bc)

XMC-2 = Original new processor. Any future upgrades would follow the same, like for example, XMC-2.5.fh

RMC-3 = Original new processor. Same goes for the upgrades.

Just a suggestion trying to help.

The gen 3 makes total sense. First the XMC-2 is considered different from the one but that doesn't make it gen 1. It's part of the entire gen 3 line. This includes the XPA gen 3 monoblocks. For instance the XPA-1 is not part of the gen 3 line though it is hanging around (and rightfully so!). It is gen 2.

The 1.3 a, b, c though helpful would require us to know what is what. Same goes for firmware upgrade. Thankfully since the XMC-1 can handle all the firmware upgrades, it doesn't really matter what firmware it is.

As for impact to the consumer, I think it's too soon to tell. Emotiva promised a modular processor that you don't have to change out or go obsolete due to the upgrades always keeping up with it. In the video Dan talked about a processor that can last I think it was 15 or 20 years (!!) BTW, this has never happened. So, a bold claim.
The XMC-1 was about to go obsolete pretty much on launch with them nixing Atmos. But to their good credit they are coming out with Atmos and HDMI upgrades especially the - in the future - upgrade to HDMI 2.0 a. So the XMC-1 is still more or less on track to stay
current.

However...now that there is an XMC-2 gen 3, what that tells me is that the XMC-1 will be discontinued. What will this mean for future upgrades? I know we don't think that as being urgent, but I remember when people were downplaying atmos and HDMI 2 and HDCP 2.2 and 4k as being not that important. Now Emotiva is already pulling planned future models because they realize that these things are absolutely important. People buying their new tvs are having to grapple with new terminology like HDCP 2.2 in case their 4k blu ray player gives them a blank screen. My friend is right now in the same boat. He may have accidentally bought a great tv without HDCP 2.2. This means it's functionally uselesss for 4k content other than for the apps.

This means that in the future, when the next wave hits with whatever they decide to do, once again, the question comes up - will it stay current?

On one hand, having an XMC-2 gen 3 with more capable hardware means that the XMC architecture will likely get future upgrades. So the possibility of trickle down tech is there. But on the other hand if the XMC-1 is discontinued what motivation does Emotiva have to put time and money in to research in keeping it current (other than the promise).
So I think it's too soon to tell if the impact will be good or bad or perhaps a bit of both. For instance the future HDMI cards that are modular may be able to fit in both the XMC-1 and XMC-2 which is probably a great thing.

[Lsc]

The way I see it, with the Atmos and HDMI upgrades, the XMC-1 should be good to go for at least 4-5 more years. So it's not the 10-15 originally stated but it's pretty darn long enough imho.

The only thing for me is that with the XMC-2 looming, I'll more likely buy that unit vs. upgrading my unit. So if there is any wonder why there were less upgrades than originally estimated, this could be the reason why.

But until I can support Atmos in my house, it's status quo for me with the XMC-1.

Also, if you are still a Dolby 5.1 user, Dan would like for you to stop wasting his bandwidth and get off of this forum - tire kicker! Just kidding.

[garbulky]

Nov 28, 2016 16:37:09 GMT -5 Lsc said:

The way I see it, with the Atmos and HDMI upgrades, the XMC-1 should be good to go for at least 4-5 more years. So it's not the 10-15 originally stated but it's pretty darn long enough imho.

The only thing for me is that with the XMC-2 looming, I'll more likely buy that unit vs. upgrading my unit. So if there is any wonder why there were less upgrades than originally estimated, this could be the reason why.

But until I can support Atmos in my house, it's status quo for me with the XMC-1.

Also, if you are still a Dolby 5.1 user, Dan would like for you to stop wasting his bandwidth and get off of this forum - tire kicker! Just kidding.

I'm a 2.0 user! A real dinosaur!

[Bonzo]

Nov 28, 2016 16:08:23 GMT -5 garbulky said:

The gen 3 makes total sense. First the XMC-2 is considered different from the one but that doesn't make it gen 1. It's part of the entire gen 3 line. This includes the XPA gen 3 monoblocks. For instance the XPA-1 is not part of the gen 3 line though it is hanging around (and rightfully so!). It is gen 2.

The 1.3 a, b, c though helpful would require us to know what is what. Same goes for firmware upgrade. Thankfully since the XMC-1 can handle all the firmware upgrades, it doesn't really matter what firmware it is.

I can't say it any quicker than to say we will have to agree to disagree, because I don't agree with your logic regarding the nomenclature. The Gen speak in terms of these processors causes confusion, plain and simple. No debate; it does. Maybe not for all, but for many that's for certain.

As for impact to the consumer, I think it's too soon to tell. Emotiva promised a modular processor that you don't have to change out or go obsolete due to the upgrades always keeping up with it. In the video Dan talked about a processor that can last I think it was 15 or 20 years (!!) BTW, this has never happened. So, a bold claim.

A recent quote from Dan in the other thread. "If you purchased a G2 XMC-1, we've kept it up to date, far beyond our original intent..." Far beyond our original intent. Hmmmm.... Interesting. This is the first time I've heard such a statement out loud. So he once said the 15 - 20 year thing you mention. Now he says not? Hmmmmm. Another simple Emotiva mind change? Sales bull schiit? Being over zealous? I'll keep my thoughts to myself here because I'm sick of blue cool aide and I'm tired of arguing about it.

The XMC-1 was about to go obsolete pretty much on launch with them nixing Atmos. But to their good credit they are coming out with Atmos and HDMI upgrades especially the - in the future - upgrade to HDMI 2.0 a. So the XMC-1 is still more or less on track to stay current.

It's interesting you can say this now and get away with it, because not too long ago I got bashed for it. Yeah, "to their good credit". Please. ONLY with some major pushing from us, and especially me and a handful of others. For which I was called outright names and basically an @$$ hole. Again, mouth shut.

However...now that there is an XMC-2 gen 3, what that tells me is that the XMC-1 will be discontinued.

I agree. On one hand Dan says otherwise, but in this statement he certainly hints at it. "We've changed a model designation, that's all. If I called the new XMC-2 G3 an XMC-1 G3, it would be ok??" It's a hypothetical so I assume he was just talking so to speak, but you never know with Emotiva. I have said it before and I'll say it again; the one thing you can always count on with 100% certainty with Emotiva is for them to change their mind. Reasons vary, but they change their mind like the wind. Know this and all will be good. Assume otherwise and be prepared to have questions/issues/disappointments. JMO.

For the record I think people comparing this to waiting on the next model car is "okay" at best, but it's not a truly equal comparison, and simply doesn't work for the most part, at least not for many.

[hosko]

I got smashed for thinking that when a new product was announced that maybe they could, I don't know put it in its own thread instead of making a vague announcement in the RMC1 thread. They obviously don't want to hurt sales of the XMC1 but to people who obviously follow the company enough to be on their forum it would have been nice if they just were up front about when the new XMC2 is due for release.

I questioned if I should wait and basically got ridiculed for it. The XMC2 sounds perfect for Atmos and DTS X and I think I will wait rather than spending AU$3600 (US$2700) on an XMC1 which now appears to be on a runout sale in the USA. The main selling point of the XMC1 to me is its upgradeability, I question anybody who thinks its a good idea to be on the old frame. Ive seen it with Sony as soon as a new frame is developed parts for the old one aren't made anymore, as the new XMC2 will have different boards with different DACs some parts from the XMC1 will eventually be in short supply.

[garbulky]

Nov 28, 2016 17:19:00 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

Nov 28, 2016 16:08:23 GMT -5 garbulky said:

As for impact to the consumer, I think it's too soon to tell. Emotiva promised a modular processor that you don't have to change out or go obsolete due to the upgrades always keeping up with it. In the video Dan talked about a processor that can last I think it was 15 or 20 years (!!) BTW, this has never happened. So, a bold claim.

A recent quote from Dan in the other thread. "If you purchased a G2 XMC-1, we've kept it up to date, far beyond our original intent..." Far beyond our original intent. Hmmmm.... Interesting. This is the first time I've heard such a statement out loud. So he once said the 15 - 20 year thing you mention. Now he says not? Hmmmmm. Another simple Emotiva mind change? Sales bull schiit? Being over zealous? I'll keep my thoughts to myself here because I'm sick of blue cool aide and I'm tired of arguing about it.

The statement was part of the big selling point of the XMC-1. You don't have to throw it out every couple of years and buy a new one. In the XMC-1 video on the product page, he is shown talking about it. The idea is buy a processor and then don't worry about it anymore. It will always be upgraded to the latest stuff and won't be obsolete.

The XMC-1 was about to go obsolete pretty much on launch with them nixing Atmos. But to their good credit they are coming out with Atmos and HDMI upgrades especially the - in the future - upgrade to HDMI 2.0 a. So the XMC-1 is still more or less on track to stay current.

It's interesting you can say this now and get away with it, because not too long ago I got bashed for it. Yeah, "to their good credit". Please. ONLY with some major pushing from us, and especially me and a handful of others. For which I was called outright names and basically an @$$ hole. Again, mouth shut.

Honestly I doubt we had much to do with it. We are just a small tiny portion of the people that buy. What probably had to do with was that people were reluctant to buy a $2000 processor that would not do Atmos. And they saw all the upcoming units have it, so it makes sense. You want to stay in the game - then your statement processor has to be in the game not out of it. Their credit is that there was some impressive reingineering for them to include atmos - for instance repurposing the RCA outputs.
There was also some "take backs" if you will. It went from "it will always be current" to qualifiers. Like "by that we meant the HDMI board or it is limited by the number of outputs (i.e. Atmos)". But then they went ahead and managed to make it Atmos. So I was impressed. I didn't expect that to happen at all. I figured they would realize their mistake and release the XMC-2. But they did deliver on their promised upgrades - at least for this generation.

However...now that there is an XMC-2 gen 3, what that tells me is that the XMC-1 will be discontinued.

I agree. On one hand Dan says otherwise, but in this statement he certainly hints at it. "We've changed a model designation, that's all. If I called the new XMC-2 G3 an XMC-1 G3, it would be ok??" It's a hypothetical so I assume he was just talking so to speak, but you never know with Emotiva. I have said it before and I'll say it again; the one thing you can always count on with 100% certainty with Emotiva is for them to change their mind. Reasons vary, but they change their mind like the wind. Know this and all will be good. Assume otherwise and be prepared to have questions/issues/disappointments. JMO.

For the record I think people comparing this to waiting on the next model car is "okay" at best, but it's not a truly equal comparison, and simply doesn't work for the most part, at least not for many.
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