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Post by ampzilla on Apr 6, 2018 14:41:22 GMT -5
They don't have to have an overwhelming board majority for it to be successful for them. Plus this board is quite frugal and embraces the older less-expensive Emo approach, vs. their newer high-end flagship high dollar approach. But isn't Emotiva about spending little money and get a lot? Let's face it, Emotiva customers either can't afford any other gear or are too cheap to buy expensive amps. Me? Neither as I do not currently own any Emotiva product. Hi Pedrocols, The real "issue" here is not about spending money (anyone can do that) it's about VALUE for the money spent. I have spent serious cash on past audio equipment only to find poor designs, some other manufacturers product in a fancy box, customer service I would not wish off on anyone, etc. I am not challenging your purchase decisions (or anyone else's). The reason I have an audio system is that I LOVE MUSIC. The less money I have to spend on superior audio equipment allows me to purchase MORE MUSIC. You might be surprised just how much amplifier power it takes not to worry about clipping (one of the main reasons amplifiers sound different), that is why I am looking forward to this new amplifier design. The fact that it comes from a manufacturer that has superior designs, customer service and a cool forum is just icing on the proverbial cake. |
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Post by ampzilla on Apr 6, 2018 14:45:52 GMT -5
Yes, they are Krell "Master Reference Mono Amps" Big, HEAVY, pure class A and would definitely run up your electric bill. Double blind, not driven into clipping, I doubt they would sound any better than
an XPR.
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Post by Casey Leedom on Apr 6, 2018 14:54:13 GMT -5
If I'm being silly with my Legacy Focus towers, I can drive my XPA-1s into protect mode. Wow. Really? The XPA-1, Gen2 is specified to deliver 600W@8Ω, 1000W@4Ω. And the sensitivity of the Legacy Audio Focus SE is 95.4 dB (2.83V@1m) which is pretty high. You can really push the XPA-1 Gen2 into protection? Yea Gods ... I hope you've got hearing protection ... Casey |
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Post by Loop 7 on Apr 6, 2018 15:22:04 GMT -5
Yes, they are Krell "Master Reference Mono Amps" Big, HEAVY, pure class A and would definitely run up your electric bill. Double blind, not driven into clipping, I doubt they would sound any better than an XPR. 1990's or earlier? |
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Post by ampzilla on Apr 6, 2018 15:42:05 GMT -5
Yes, they are Krell "Master Reference Mono Amps" Big, HEAVY, pure class A and would definitely run up your electric bill. Double blind, not driven into clipping, I doubt they would sound any better than an XPR. 1990's or earlier? Middle 200O's as I recall, Attached is a hyper from the manufacturer describing the product. www.krellonline.com/archive_pdfs/MRA/A0101_030_WEB.pdf |
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Post by garbulky on Apr 6, 2018 16:00:19 GMT -5
Uh, it does 16,000 watts in to 1/2 ohm loads. Sweet Jesus.
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Post by pedrocols on Apr 6, 2018 16:45:33 GMT -5
Yes, they are Krell "Master Reference Mono Amps" Big, HEAVY, pure class A and would definitely run up your electric bill. Double blind, not driven into clipping, I doubt they would sound any better than an XPR. There are people here that can arguably hear a difference between Emotiva amps so I would venture to say that yes you will be able to hear a difference between the amps you are referring to. |
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Post by 1960broookwood on Apr 6, 2018 17:01:41 GMT -5
More of a "first watt" kind of guy myself. Most of my listening is through an 8 watt tube hybrid.
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Post by copperpipe on Apr 6, 2018 17:29:18 GMT -5
If I we're given them, I'd use them; but I don't think my listening habits require an extra 3db headroom; that's all you'd be getting over the current Emotiva lineup. Do people REALLY need that 3db? Because I suspect if the current lineup of Emotiva amps aren't doing it for you, then neither will a 1200 watt monster.
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Post by leonski on Apr 6, 2018 17:55:48 GMT -5
If Emotiva is going to make a new, extremely powerful amplifier, why not set a record? I found this image with some attached info stating these blocks weighed over 500 lbs each? Does that make sense? Are they Krell?  Nope, not Krell. They are Ottomans disguised to look like electronics |
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Post by ampzilla on Apr 6, 2018 19:24:47 GMT -5
Yes, they are Krell "Master Reference Mono Amps" Big, HEAVY, pure class A and would definitely run up your electric bill. Double blind, not driven into clipping, I doubt they would sound any better than an XPR. There are people here that can arguably hear a difference between Emotiva amps so I would venture to say that yes you will be able to hear a difference between the amps you are referring to. Hi Pedrocols, I can't speak to the observations you mentioned or the conditions under which they were performed. What I can say with confidence is this; if one compares (2) "well designed" amplifiers capable of driving the connected loudspeaker / cable load without anomalies, level matches them to > .1 db and never allows the input signal to come near or clip the amplifiers under test, there will be NO audible difference. If you have doubts concerning this, try it for yourself. This has to be a double blind test in which the observer does not know with amplifier is selected. The caveat here is "well designed", I am not saying all amplifiers sound the same, some have sonic "tricks" concerning their transfer function (the output level compared to it's input and matched in level) that appeal to some audiophiles. Bob Carver proved that "issue" decades ago, replicating the "sound" of a VERY expensive tube amplifier, perhaps that specific subject should be revisited. When considering value for funds spent (I will use the Emotiva DR"SD" as a example) The Krell "MRA" cost ~150,000 in 2005 dollars, 680# each, > 1 kw / 8 ohms, regulated power supply, etc. (I don't know how they arrived at the 16 kw / .5 ohm figure, must have been special AC circuits / load elements) The Emotiva DR"SD" (proposed specs) ~2500 in 2018 dollars, ~50#, > 1 kw / 8 ohms, regulated power supply. I know which one I would (and will hopefully) purchase. This also shows how far the performance / cost in semiconductor devices has progressed. Tubes are a different story. A high powered, efficient, fully voltage regulated amplifier is a very desirable thing. One is unlikely to drive it close or into clipping and at "normal" listening levels, it has a relatively "stress free" life cycle. |
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Post by Loop 7 on Apr 6, 2018 20:06:24 GMT -5
So we are talking about a major monthly expense if these amps were left on 24/7? Who would need 16,000 watts in to 1/2 ohm loads? Those big Apogee speakers that I've read about? |
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Post by monkumonku on Apr 6, 2018 20:09:35 GMT -5
Maybe they can make the meters based on tubes that get brighter and dimmer and the power varies.  Mark Just make fake meters that stay at zero all the time. That way owners can brag that the amp is so powerful it can effortlessly drive any speaker without the meters even moving. |
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 6, 2018 20:58:52 GMT -5
Maybe they can make the meters based on tubes that get brighter and dimmer and the power varies. Mark Just make fake meters that stay at zero all the time. That way owners can brag that the amp is so powerful it can effortlessly drive any speaker without the meters even moving. This is funny 😄 (no joke!) The meter on my Sunfire Multichannel amp. Works in reality the way you describe..... When the amp. Is triggered, the meter comes on and pegs at the max power available (measured in “Joules” 0 to 500.) Supposedly, as more power is used the meter drops, meaning less available. Once the meter is up, I’ve never seen it move, no matter the volume. Bragging?? Perhaps....maybe the thing is busted. Bill |
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Post by leonski on Apr 6, 2018 21:04:57 GMT -5
Another wacky Bob Carver 'innovative' circuit.
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 6, 2018 22:17:01 GMT -5
Another wacky Bob Carver 'innovative' circuit. The amp. Is awesome but yeah....that meter?? (Worthless) With the production of the newer version moved over to China, the meter is long gone....just a big black box with a switch. Gotta say, I’m running the amp. 16 full years without any trouble. Dead quiet without any of those “thumps” associated with the Carvers. This one is the Sunfire Line. Bill |
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Post by leonski on Apr 6, 2018 22:42:21 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong.
Bob Carver is one talented guy. His one possible weak point is how he NAMES some of his circuitry. Sonic Hologram? Asymmetrical Charge Coupled Detector?
With the exception of getting taken out by a power glitch, my Carver Cube (M400t) was a pretty good amp. It DID emit a little 'putt-putt' sound which was inaudible from just a few feet away.
Was Sunfire his next company AFTER Carver? I think Phase Linear was first and lost in a divorce. And I know he used International Rectifier parts as output devices in Sunfire. I think he used IGBT devices, but
maybe I'm mis-remembering?
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 6, 2018 22:58:06 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong. Bob Carver is one talented guy. His one possible weak point is how he NAMES some of his circuitry. Sonic Hologram? Asymmetrical Charge Coupled Detector? With the exception of getting taken out by a power glitch, my Carver Cube (M400t) was a pretty good amp. It DID emit a little 'putt-putt' sound which was inaudible from just a few feet away. Was Sunfire his next company AFTER Carver? I think Phase Linear was first and lost in a divorce. And I know he used International Rectifier parts as output devices in Sunfire. I think he used IGBT devices, but maybe I'm mis-remembering? You got it.........Phase Linear, Carver, then Sunfire. |
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Post by ampzilla on Apr 7, 2018 1:03:40 GMT -5
Hi Guys and Gals,
I really did not mean to get off the topic of High Power Balanced Amplifiers by mentioning Mr. Carver. He is one of the last "old school" audio innovators, who has probably forgotten more about audio technology than we could collectively think of but since we are there, let's collectively remember some of the giants who have passed. Perhaps raise a glass to the gifts they have given us. In no particular order; Oscar Heil, Saul Marantz, Jim Thiel, James Bongiorno, Brian Cheney, Peter Walker, Roy Allison, Edgar Villchur, Henry Kloss, Paul Klipsch, Harry Nyquist, Jim Winey, Arnie Nudell and so many others. What I am trying to say is that we are standing on the shoulders of giants. Our current audio technology would not be possible without the contributions of those who were there first.
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Post by pedrocols on Apr 7, 2018 1:12:25 GMT -5
Well it seems that the poll itself clearly states that not many want these 1,200 amps so move on to the next big idea. I am pretty sure Emotiva did not make a lot of money out of the XPR line up of amps.
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