morfious
Minor Hero
Putting the XMC-1 through its paces
Posts: 75 
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Post by morfious on Sept 6, 2018 17:53:51 GMT -5
I don't believe in the high end cable mumbo jumbo. This is however, my hobby, and I want my stuff to look nice. I chose the DIY route and turned this:  Monoprice - 100ft 12AWG CL2 Rated 4-Conductor Loud Speaker Cable
Wirecare.com - Techflex Flexo PET Snake pattern - 3/8" x 100ft
Wirecare.com - Polyolefin Heatshrink Tubing - 3:1 - 3/4" (Works great to fit over cable pants)
Parts Express - Cable Pants 11mm 4-Conductor Black 10 Pcs.
Parts Express - Cable Pants 11mm 2-Conductor Black 10 Pcs.
Orange County Speaker.com - GLS Audio Black chrome bannana plugs non locking
Harbor freight - Heat gun
Into these biwire cables:
I also don't think biwiring the speakers does anything for the sound, but my speakers have 4 binding posts so why not use them all?!?
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Post by DavidR on Sept 6, 2018 18:11:33 GMT -5
Nice work.
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b4icu
Minor Hero
Posts: 60
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Post by b4icu on Sept 10, 2018 22:33:57 GMT -5
Hi
I am wondering if this subject is a joke? As no one really knows the origin, but they are happy to tell it to friends. I have an Engineering background, mostly Analog. It seems that no one really knows what is the right cable for his system. Not to say, that cable makers really don't. They provide no technical data (no such requirment as with other electronic equipment, as speakers, amplifiers or sources) or any clue of which cable would fit your amp. or speaker.
Even some respected magazins, never nailed it. I've seen an article someone linked, of S&V that once used to be Stereo Review. This aproach is amazing. How come no one really got it? For some time the Bi-Wire was a hit. If you would be a speaker manufecturer, you better had a Bi-Wire option, if you would like to have a fair chance on the market. Sorry to tell you, but a simple simulation od "Spice" would tell that a single thick wire would be better than two thin (equal to the thick one) connected separatly for the low's and the high's. Well, the coin is not under this light eather.
Some got it wring on peak current. I use a Klipsh Forte-II with a Carver TFM-35 amp. The Amp. has power meters. At a comfortable volume, this 99dB/w/m SPL speakers take some 0.001W-1W. This is a very low current requirment. Still a thicker cable sounds better. So it's not the current. The coin is not under this light eather.
I'll excuse also the silver over cooper (9% better conductivity for 91.4 times more expensive), Burn-In process, that is mainly an excuss to get lost and better not come back later. Use of exotic treatments or materials, that change nothing on Mendeliave's table of elements, or their properties.
I think I've got it. I'll try to keep it for for myself, for now, Just as Giuseppe Verdi's Rigoletto's overture: La Dona e mobile story...
Ther should be and there is a physical relation between the componnets that set the value of what a speaker cable's values shall be.
I'm sorry for the expensive journy of eror and trial. I also do not get the pricing of those cables. Nothing they claim charging for, is not really doing the job.
However, cables do make a difference. A big one. Here is a say of a friend who owns an Emotiva 300 watt amplifier and Vienna Acoustic Beethoven Baby Grand Speakers:
"My initial impressions: It’s like having new speakers. The sound is pure and clean. Minute details are suddenly apparent. The range is amazing. Highs, mid-tones and a new bass that I didn’t know my speakers were capable of.
It feels that for all these years my speakers were being chocked, and now can suddenly breathe and have their full voice.
To say I’m happy about my new Lang speaker cables is an understatement. I’m thrilled. Thank you for building these superbly engineered cables to unleash the full potential of my home sound system".
I made him a set, after he asked me for, sent it over and he was pretty much shocked! It is not the first, and it keeps going well (getting results).
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b4icu
Minor Hero
Posts: 60
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Post by b4icu on Sept 10, 2018 22:41:49 GMT -5
Dear Mr. morfious Minor Hero: Nice work. It is more important that the cable will sound good, rather than look good. For that you need a way thicker cable. As you are uasig EMOTIVA amplification, for up to 3m (10 feet) you need a 0 AWG size cable. If you get one for a try at home, and compare it to a 14 AWG cable of similar length or longer, you will be plesently surprised. Read my above post, the coment there is of a guy who had a 14 AWG cable of 12 feet and been replaced with a cable I made for him, of 0 AWG. |
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Post by DavidR on Sept 11, 2018 9:08:25 GMT -5
I use #4 cable (0 AWG) on my arc welder.
useless as speaker cable IMO.
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Post by pedrocols on Sept 11, 2018 9:32:25 GMT -5
Hi I am wondering if this subject is a joke? As no one really knows the origin, but they are happy to tell it to friends. I have an Engineering background, mostly Analog. It seems that no one really knows what is the right cable for his system. Not to say, that cable makers really don't. They provide no technical data (no such requirment as with other electronic equipment, as speakers, amplifiers or sources) or any clue of which cable would fit your amp. or speaker. Even some respected magazins, never nailed it. I've seen an article someone linked, of S&V that once used to be Stereo Review. This aproach is amazing. How come no one really got it? For some time the Bi-Wire was a hit. If you would be a speaker manufecturer, you better had a Bi-Wire option, if you would like to have a fair chance on the market. Sorry to tell you, but a simple simulation od "Spice" would tell that a single thick wire would be better than two thin (equal to the thick one) connected separatly for the low's and the high's. Well, the coin is not under this light eather. Some got it wring on peak current. I use a Klipsh Forte-II with a Carver TFM-35 amp. The Amp. has power meters. At a comfortable volume, this 99dB/w/m SPL speakers take some 0.001W-1W. This is a very low current requirment. Still a thicker cable sounds better. So it's not the current. The coin is not under this light eather. I'll excuse also the silver over cooper (9% better conductivity for 91.4 times more expensive), Burn-In process, that is mainly an excuss to get lost and better not come back later. Use of exotic treatments or materials, that change nothing on Mendeliave's table of elements, or their properties. I think I've got it. I'll try to keep it for for myself, for now, Just as Giuseppe Verdi's Rigoletto's overture: La Dona e mobile story... Ther should be and there is a physical relation between the componnets that set the value of what a speaker cable's values shall be. I'm sorry for the expensive journy of eror and trial. I also do not get the pricing of those cables. Nothing they claim charging for, is not really doing the job. However, cables do make a difference. A big one. Here is a say of a friend who owns an Emotiva 300 watt amplifier and Vienna Acoustic Beethoven Baby Grand Speakers: "My initial impressions: It’s like having new speakers. The sound is pure and clean. Minute details are suddenly apparent. The range is amazing. Highs, mid-tones and a new bass that I didn’t know my speakers were capable of. It feels that for all these years my speakers were being chocked, and now can suddenly breathe and have their full voice. To say I’m happy about my new Lang speaker cables is an understatement. I’m thrilled. Thank you for building these superbly engineered cables to unleash the full potential of my home sound system". I made him a set, after he asked me for, sent it over and he was pretty much shocked! It is not the first, and it keeps going well (getting results). To be honest with you I just read the first and last word of what you just posted. |
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b4icu
Minor Hero
Posts: 60
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Post by b4icu on Sept 12, 2018 6:48:20 GMT -5
I use #4 cable (0 AWG) on my arc welder.
useless as speaker cable IMO.
Hi What your weldings would look like, if you would use a #14 wire? Thick wires can be found on many applications. Try using it as your speaker cable. You will be pleasently surprise. Especially if you are using an EMOTIVA amplifier. It might be the best invested money in your sound system. |
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b4icu
Minor Hero
Posts: 60
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Post by b4icu on Sept 12, 2018 12:35:35 GMT -5
Hi I am wondering if this subject is a joke? As no one really knows the origin, but they are happy to tell it to friends. I have an Engineering background, mostly Analog. It seems that no one really knows what is the right cable for his system. Not to say, that cable makers really don't. They provide no technical data (no such requirment as with other electronic equipment, as speakers, amplifiers or sources) or any clue of which cable would fit your amp. or speaker. Even some respected magazins, never nailed it. I've seen an article someone linked, of S&V that once used to be Stereo Review. This aproach is amazing. How come no one really got it? For some time the Bi-Wire was a hit. If you would be a speaker manufecturer, you better had a Bi-Wire option, if you would like to have a fair chance on the market. Sorry to tell you, but a simple simulation od "Spice" would tell that a single thick wire would be better than two thin (equal to the thick one) connected separatly for the low's and the high's. Well, the coin is not under this light eather. Some got it wring on peak current. I use a Klipsh Forte-II with a Carver TFM-35 amp. The Amp. has power meters. At a comfortable volume, this 99dB/w/m SPL speakers take some 0.001W-1W. This is a very low current requirment. Still a thicker cable sounds better. So it's not the current. The coin is not under this light eather. I'll excuse also the silver over cooper (9% better conductivity for 91.4 times more expensive), Burn-In process, that is mainly an excuss to get lost and better not come back later. Use of exotic treatments or materials, that change nothing on Mendeliave's table of elements, or their properties. I think I've got it. I'll try to keep it for for myself, for now, Just as Giuseppe Verdi's Rigoletto's overture: La Dona e mobile story... Ther should be and there is a physical relation between the componnets that set the value of what a speaker cable's values shall be. I'm sorry for the expensive journy of eror and trial. I also do not get the pricing of those cables. Nothing they claim charging for, is not really doing the job. However, cables do make a difference. A big one. Here is a say of a friend who owns an Emotiva 300 watt amplifier and Vienna Acoustic Beethoven Baby Grand Speakers: "My initial impressions: It’s like having new speakers. The sound is pure and clean. Minute details are suddenly apparent. The range is amazing. Highs, mid-tones and a new bass that I didn’t know my speakers were capable of. It feels that for all these years my speakers were being chocked, and now can suddenly breathe and have their full voice. To say I’m happy about my new Lang speaker cables is an understatement. I’m thrilled. Thank you for building these superbly engineered cables to unleash the full potential of my home sound system". I made him a set, after he asked me for, sent it over and he was pretty much shocked! It is not the first, and it keeps going well (getting results). To be honest with you I just read the first and last word of what you just posted. Hi That's nice: its saying: I'm getting results. So we are on the same page. All you need to do if find out how I'm getting there. For your habit of reading, It's way better than not reading at all. But you could do even better if you would read. For your system: the Mag. 1.7 sound fantastic. but they need a powerfull amp. I'm not sure tube delivers that. The two downsides of the 1.7 are low sensitivity (86dB/w/m SPL) and a hrd4 ohms impedance. The next is some shortage on the low band. A sub would fix that. |
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Post by DavidR on Sept 12, 2018 12:53:16 GMT -5
I use #4 cable (0 AWG) on my arc welder.
useless as speaker cable IMO.
Hi What your weldings would look like, if you would use a #14 wire? Thick wires can be found on many applications. Try using it as your speaker cable. You will be pleasently surprise. Especially if you are using an EMOTIVA amplifier. It might be the best invested money in your sound system. I'm not pushing 100+amps into my speaker wire which is 12AWG. I do with my welder but that's DC and not AC current. Oh, and my banana plugs won't accept 0 AWG.
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b4icu
Minor Hero
Posts: 60
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Post by b4icu on Sept 13, 2018 0:19:26 GMT -5
Hi What your weldings would look like, if you would use a #14 wire? Thick wires can be found on many applications. Try using it as your speaker cable. You will be pleasently surprise. Especially if you are using an EMOTIVA amplifier. It might be the best invested money in your sound system. I'm not pushing 100+amps into my speaker wire which is 12AWG. I do with my welder but that's DC and not AC current. Oh, and my banana plugs won't accept 0 AWG.
Hi It is not the current with speaker cables. It is with welders. This though is wrong. I use a a Klipsh Forte-II speaker (99dB/w/m SPL) and a CARVER TFM-35 Amp. It neesd less than 1W to play loud. Still cable thicknes improves the sound. At that power@ 8 ohms, the current is very low: 0.35A. For a 0 AWG wire to connect to a banana plug, you shall use a short 8 AWG wire (or the thicker wire that do fit into your banana plug) and connect that wire (It is called pig tail) to the 0 AWG end. This need to be isolated, best with a shrinking tube. I used a cable shoe and a presson the o AWG side as it is very difficult to solder a 0 AWG wire. If you want to try it, find two pairs of good jump start cables and conect tham with causion as peaker wires. |
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b4icu
Minor Hero
Posts: 60
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Post by b4icu on Sept 13, 2018 0:53:56 GMT -5
  Hi This is what the cable I make look like. The thick (Red / Blue) cables are 0 AWG 2.5m long (each). The Pig tails (the wire under the white sleev) is 8 AWG. The banana plugs are the best type I know of. The way to connect such a havy gauge wire is by crimping (a special tool is required $$). I used a 70 DIN size bare shoe and than dressed the joint wires with the proper diameter shrinking sleev (Black). The white sleeve is to get the deal water tight and keep the banana plug's sleeve from ever open. The cables are as flexible as a 0 AWG can get, with extra lexibility on the ends. Each of the 4 cables (two for each channel) weight about 1 kg (2.2 Lb). A set of four is over 4 kg. The engineering calculation behind those cables is a perfrct fit to most EMOTIVA amplifiers. The engineering way is not about the current, but the cable resistance. The maximum current into a 4 ohms speaker, with a 400W@8 ohms or 800W@4 ohms, would be 28A. A 7-8AWG wire is enough. But for the resistance isue, a 0AWG is recommanded (Five times better). |
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 13, 2018 8:28:56 GMT -5
 Problem solved. Bill |
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b4icu
Minor Hero
Posts: 60
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Post by b4icu on Sept 13, 2018 9:58:52 GMT -5
Hi What problem? Getting a thick cable into a banana plug? Do you think that all it takes, is a thick cable and the thicker the better? Well, this is not the case. Each cable needs to be calculated respectivaly to the equipment it's connecting. Not all and not alway a very thick cable is needed. Sometimes, even a 0 AWG is not enough and a 2x or 4x o AWG is required. Thick cables cost more than thin cables. They are also more work to make one. Why pay for things that won't make a sonic deference and people don't really need?? |
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 13, 2018 10:36:01 GMT -5
Hi What problem? Getting a thick cable into a banana plug? Do you think that all it takes, is a thick cable and the thicker the better? Well, this is not the case. Each cable needs to be calculated respectivaly to the equipment it's connecting. Not all and not alway a very thick cable is needed. Sometimes, even a 0 AWG is not enough and a 2x or 4x o AWG is required. Thick cables cost more than thin cables. They are also more work to make one. Why pay for things that won't make a sonic deference and people don't really need?? Oh Mann...…..even your sense of humor is a bust! You see, the ENORMOUS complexity of connecting speakers to a stereo has me overwhelmed, so I hired this little guy to take care of it for me (and he is non-union also!)  _ Bill |
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Post by monkumonku on Sept 13, 2018 11:22:15 GMT -5
Hi What problem? Getting a thick cable into a banana plug? Do you think that all it takes, is a thick cable and the thicker the better? Well, this is not the case. Each cable needs to be calculated respectivaly to the equipment it's connecting. Not all and not alway a very thick cable is needed. Sometimes, even a 0 AWG is not enough and a 2x or 4x o AWG is required. Thick cables cost more than thin cables. They are also more work to make one. Why pay for things that won't make a sonic deference and people don't really need?? Oh Mann...…..even your sense of humor is a bust! You see, the ENORMOUS complexity of connecting speakers to a stereo has me overwhelmed, so I hired this little guy to take care of it for me (and he is non-union also!) View Attachment_ Bill You must have hired one of those workers being discussed in the "Should We Be Concerned" thread. |
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 13, 2018 11:47:16 GMT -5
Hi This is what the cable I make look like. The thick (Red / Blue) cables are 0 AWG 2.5m long (each). The Pig tails (the wire under the white sleev) is 8 AWG. The banana plugs are the best type I know of. The way to connect such a havy gauge wire is by crimping (a special tool is required $$). I used a 70 DIN size bare shoe and than dressed the joint wires with the proper diameter shrinking sleev (Black). The white sleeve is to get the deal water tight and keep the banana plug's sleeve from ever open. The cables are as flexible as a 0 AWG can get, with extra lexibility on the ends. Each of the 4 cables (two for each channel) weight about 1 kg (2.2 Lb). A set of four is over 4 kg. The engineering calculation behind those cables is a perfrct fit to most EMOTIVA amplifiers. The engineering way is not about the current, but the cable resistance. The maximum current into a 4 ohms speaker, with a 400W@8 ohms or 800W@4 ohms, would be 28A. A 7-8AWG wire is enough. But for the resistance isue, a 0AWG is recommanded (Five times better). 5x0 was still zero last time I checked |
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b4icu
Minor Hero
Posts: 60
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Post by b4icu on Sept 13, 2018 14:32:22 GMT -5
Hi
I though it is a forum about technical subjects related to audio. Why would it become into cynicism?
I found it a childish reaction when people do not understand a subject. Some sought of denial.
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Post by pedrocols on Sept 13, 2018 14:51:23 GMT -5
To be honest with you I just read the first and last word of what you just posted. Hi That's nice: its saying: I'm getting results. So we are on the same page. All you need to do if find out how I'm getting there. For your habit of reading, It's way better than not reading at all. But you could do even better if you would read. For your system: the Mag. 1.7 sound fantastic. but they need a powerfull amp. I'm not sure tube delivers that. The two downsides of the 1.7 are low sensitivity (86dB/w/m SPL) and a hrd4 ohms impedance. The next is some shortage on the low band. A sub would fix that. I typically listen music at around 70 to 74db sitting at roughly 8 feet away. I do have two subwoofers to take care or the low end. |
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 13, 2018 17:51:44 GMT -5
Hi I though it is a forum about technical subjects related to audio. Why would it become into cynicism? I found it a childish reaction when people do not understand a subject. Some sought of denial. Actually, you have it backwards. Fundamental loudspeaker connections are so easy to accomplish that it’s actually pretty hard to screw it up (child’s play). Making something out of nothing, well...that’s when the cynicism comes along. Bill |
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b4icu
Minor Hero
Posts: 60
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Post by b4icu on Sept 14, 2018 0:09:45 GMT -5
Hi I though it is a forum about technical subjects related to audio. Why would it become into cynicism? I found it a childish reaction when people do not understand a subject. Some sought of denial. Actually, you have it backwards. Fundamental loudspeaker connections are so easy to accomplish that it’s actually pretty hard to screw it up (child’s play). Making something out of nothing, well...that’s when the cynicism comes along. Bill Hi Bill What speaker cables do you use (length and gauge) for your front speakers? How do you know if they are the "right one" for you? How much did you pay for them? Speaker cables were most of the time a matter of: Get me X feet from that pooly for $5 a feet for free, when you buy your speakers, or getting one that costs an arm and a leg from a dealer, that tels you a lovely story (no data) and gives you a cable that looks nice in a very nice box, but you still have no idea why that cable is any better than all other. Most have a cable that is holding their system from performing the best, but are not even awear off that. What makes you think you are different? |
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