DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 24, 2019 15:35:47 GMT -5
The only question I have is why 100db efficicnecy? Do you plan to drive with flea-watt tube amps?
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 24, 2019 15:40:25 GMT -5
The only question I have is why 100db efficicnecy? Do you plan to drive with flea-watt tube amps? Yes. I've never tried a SET amp, and I'd like to. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 24, 2019 15:44:12 GMT -5
What you want is not cheap, even DIY, But hey, how about these specs?
CHARACTERISTIC IMPEDANCE 6 Ohms
FREQUENCY RESPONSE 18Hz to 23Khz, =/-6dB in room
SENSITIVITY 98db/watt-meter
MINIMUM AMPLIFIER POWER 7 Watts RMS per channel
MAXIMUM AMPLIFIER POWER 150 Watts (unclipped) RMS per channel Peak
CABINET & FINISH MATERIAL Birch Ply with real Wood Veneer finish (your choice)
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 24, 2019 15:46:32 GMT -5
That's an Audio Note AN-E, by the way. $40K/pr I can build you a similar-performing clone for half that.  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 24, 2019 15:53:48 GMT -5
I could afford the $20K, but not the subsequent divorce - LOL.
A more realistic budget for casa Boom speakers is about $3.5K per pair, and even that's stretching it.
I doubt that I'd find a true full-range speaker at that price point new. So options may be limited to the satellite-subwoofer designs after all.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 24, 2019 15:59:47 GMT -5
I could afford the $20K, but not the subsequent divorce - LOL. A more realistic budget for casa Boom speakers is about $3.5K per pair, and even that's stretching it. That sounds like Klipsch territory to me, a path you've already tried I believe... $3500 is doable DIY range, but only if you are either willing to accept painted MDF enclosures or if you have really good veneering skills yourself. You'd end up with a system that performed as well as something costing twice as much at least.. If you are interested I can design something for you and you and decide if you want to go for it... I can't build then for that, though as the labor would eat that up. This is why the power of a commercial manufacturer who can exploit off-shore labor rates and mass production will beat DIY or the high-end price-wise every day of the week. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 24, 2019 17:39:42 GMT -5
...I can't build then for that, though as the labor would eat that up. This is why the power of a commercial manufacturer who can exploit off-shore labor rates and mass production will beat DIY or the high-end price-wise every day of the week. Agreed. I think some used speakers will be the eventual path I go. |
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Post by mountain on Feb 24, 2019 17:49:54 GMT -5
I didn't realize Def Tech made speakers with powered subs. I do love my outdoor Def Techs. Mark Wow, that's surprising. I think Def Tech is probably the most famous company for using them. Golden Ear comes second as they are Sandy Gross' newer company. As for the newer models, I've not listened to them, because I seriously doubt they sound better than mine. Def Tech has scaled back their home speaker sizes and the amount of bipolar usage, which seems like going backwards to me. I think its more about selling speakers now more than just making the best they can. They are making more WAF speakers. I have heard the Golden Ear Triton 2s, and while they sounded really nice, I like my old BP7001SCs better. I have a set of def.tech. BP2000’s. I believe they were their first bipolar speakers with the built in power subs. I do have a nice room for them. They are easy to place and use, given that they need to be out in the room a bit. They integrate easily with my surround system and free standing sub. They are not done with me yet. |
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Post by Cogito on Feb 24, 2019 19:37:13 GMT -5
There are some GREAT speakers out there in the 2-3 grand price point from companies that have been successfully designing and building loudspeaker for decades, lifetimes even. Emotiva would have to have to do something REALLY special in order to compete. First thing they would need to do is to get rid of that DAMN UGLY black vinyl wrap crap! Real wood veneers or at least nice paint jobs like Tekton's.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 1:25:39 GMT -5
Those who like speakers with built-in (fake  ) subs have yet to realize some very basics about sound as the frequency output lowers. First is the very important change at approximately 80Hz. The next is the second very important change at approximately 20Hz. Hint, the first is due to being able to locate the source of the sound. The second is being able to only feel the sound. Yes there are some slight Hz variations but these are the common realities. No use for me here to go into details if you haven't at this point in this hobby yet educated yourself about low frequency bass acoustic sound and physics and speaker enclosure size. Of course the location of a speaker enclosure in the room can seriously affect the frequency performance. Usually bookshelf, center and tower speakers are OK at the front of the room near the screen with only slight adjustments. However, low bass sound below 80H is a very different matter. We know that putting three drivers in the same box, years ago and also currently like a 1" tweeter, 4" midrange and 12" woofer in a tower or large bookshelf was common (or 2 way dynamic speakers). Most speaker designers knew that putting those three in separate enclosures like some old M & K speaker systems had slightly superior sound but most buyers did not want two or three more expensive speaker enclosures rather than one for very similar sound. In the original Emo Reference line the tower ERT-8.3 and the bookshelf ERM-1 had exactly the same 1" cloth dome tweeter and two 5.25" midranges. These three drivers sound very slightly better from the bookshelf at the same height because the ERM-1 enclosure was smaller than the top of the ERT-8.3 and not on top of a large enclosure. This is a secret, don't tell anyone at Emo. Also why I have the ERM-1 mated with a high quality sub, sounds great and I had no room for the big ERT-8.3 towers. However, some years ago when higher quality recorded sound sources (pipe organs, synthetic bass, and movie/LFE) was going down at -3dB's past 25Hz, 20Hz, 15Hz, a new lower bass capable driver was needed. The cheaper way and more acceptable for many versus one, two or more separate powered subs was the built-in sub. Sounds fine for many ears and keeps the wife happy. The sound is simply not equal to separate sub enclosures properly placed in the room which is seldom at the bottom of the main enclosure. Note, I am not talking about the cheapo $250-$500 subs that many add as an afterthought. The $1000 plus subs at a B&M store or $750 plus online, many times 2 each, will reproduce excellent low bass for all sounds below 30Hz including the 0.1 channel LFE sounds (same sub reproduces both). Some incorrectly think they need a separate sub for the LFE. Not true. Note, one must hear the sub in your own room, not a store or friends. Never buy a sub that you cannot return after you audition it in your room. The sound in a store, at a friends or an online review will give you a good head start to narrow down the best sub for you. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 25, 2019 3:08:09 GMT -5
The BMs? I think I've heard some of those...  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 3:09:31 GMT -5
There are some GREAT speakers out there in the 2-3 grand price point from companies that have been successfully designing and building loudspeaker for decades, lifetimes even. Emotiva would have to have to do something REALLY special in order to compete. First thing they would need to do is to get rid of that DAMN UGLY black vinyl wrap crap! Real wood veneers or at least nice paint jobs like Tekton's. I got into sound back in the late 60's I have owned many fine speakers, AR LST, Altec Lansing VOTT, Klipsch, JBL, Wharfedale, Axiom, and many I can't remember. I have also heard many high end speakers in my many trips to Japan that are not imported into the US. I always say never buy a speaker you haven't heard in your own room and can return if needed. I currently live in a fairly small condo and can no long have large enclosures. About ten years ago I bought one of the Emo Reference ERM-1 to test in my room. I had read a superb review at Audioholics. I took days doing many tests and eventually bought 5 Emo Reference speakers for my still current system mated with a high quality sub. I am still extremely happy with these 5 marvelous speakers. The factory direct price was excellent and the drivers are very high quality and at 4 ohms take tons of power from my Emo XPA-5 amp that puts out 300 watts plus per channel into 4 ohms. I am super picky about my sound. I'm not sure about the current Emo models although they seem to have excellent reviews. My Emo speakers have a very nice black lacquer satin wood finish (not vinyl) with quality black grill cloth. They fit in perfectly with our Asian room decor. We get many compliments about their classy appearance. Walnut was great for the 60's and 70's. In my 50 years in this hobby I have heard many of the so called "best" speakers, most I could not afford. These Emotiva Reference speakers are the best bang for the buck speakers I have owned. I also own the Emotiva 3B and Airmotiv 4 powered speakers, XDA-2 DAC, ERC-2 CD player and XMC-1 Pre-Pro. All of my Emo products have been great buys plus excellent performers. Dan Laufman has built a fine high end company with direct to buyer sales. There are no better products for the money. BTW: The 7211 weighs 42lbs each, a real lightweight! The Emotiva ERT-8.3 weighs 75 lbs! Get it? A high quality speaker with high end drivers and magnets, very solid cabinet. The Emo T2 weighs 57lbs. Your 7211 is a typical speaker by an obscure company that sells overpriced speakers. Go trash Emotiva speakers somewhere else!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 3:12:51 GMT -5
The BMs? I think I've heard some of those... Brick and Mortar store dummie! You won't find those at a flea market!  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 25, 2019 3:19:59 GMT -5
Hi Chuckie - In defense of Cogito, I don't think that he's "trashing" Emotiva speakers at all - I only think he's saying that he: a) thinks there are a LOT of good speakers on the market at higher prices (he's right) and b) he doesn't like the black vinyl look (I don't either) I've never seen or heard the Emotiva ERT speaker models, but I'm sure that they're all you say they are. And at their price points, the current Emotiva T2 speakers (that you seem to criticize because of their lighter weight compared to the ERTs) sound just amazing. We agree wholeheartedly that Mr. L. has built a very fine company and that his high-value, direct-to-buyer sales model is the "wave of the future" for high end sales. But let's maybe be gentler to fellow Lounge members whom, after all, are also Emotiva enthusiasts? Cordially - Boom |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 3:42:04 GMT -5
Hi Chuckie - In defense of Cogito , I don't think that he's "trashing" Emotiva speakers at all - I only think he's saying that he: a) thinks there are a LOT of good speakers on the market at higher prices (he's right) and b) he doesn't like the black vinyl look (I don't either) I've never seen or heard the Emotiva ERT speaker models, but I'm sure that they're all you say they are. And at their price points, the current Emotiva T2 speakers (that you seem to criticize because of their lighter weight compared to the ERTs) sound just amazing. We agree wholeheartedly that Mr. L. has built a very fine company and that his high-value, direct-to-buyer sales model is the "wave of the future" for high end sales. But let's maybe be gentler to fellow Lounge members who, after all, are also Emotiva enthusiasts? Boom, I gave the weights of both the ERT-8 and T2 to show that they are much heavier than the 7211, not to compare them to each other (have you been drinking? ...  ). He sure doesn't sound like an Emotiva speaker enthusiast. He writes: Emotiva would have to have to do something REALLY special in order to compete. I read that as an insult! He in so many words is saying that the Emotiva speakers don't compete. I say nonsense! Check out the 7211's as they are way over hyped and overpriced speakers. Boom, have you looked at the specs and reviews? Have you read the Alcoholics reviews on the Emo speakers and many other online reviews. I didn't think so. He also implies that Emotiva is not a successful company in speaker design. Vance Dickason helped design the Original Reference line. I'll bet Cogito doesn't even know who he is. Emo speakers being factory direct have been 50% less than and more than most comparable speakers. My Emo XPA-5 was $700 (reg $800) from Emo and the very similar Parasound model ran $2500 and up. Just an example. Emotiva speaker have outperformed many at 2-3 times the price. The change to made in the US has probably narrowed that price advantage, but they are still a great buy and high quality speaker. Do I need to post some of the reviews on the newer Emo speakers? Go somewhere else and post that Emotiva doesn't make speakers that compete! |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 25, 2019 4:00:57 GMT -5
I think we were all discussing speakers in the $2,000 to $3,000 per pair range. Emotiva makes no speakers in that price range. And they would have to "do something really special to compete" IN THAT PRICE RANGE. I think you're reading a LOT of things into Cogito's post that were never intended to be there. Misunderstandings are common in written communication, and I think that's what we've got here.
Just as I misunderstood your weight comparisons, I think you've misunderstood Cogito's comments, and taken a bunch of implications that were not only unstated but also unintended.
You imply that Cogito "sure doesn't sound like an Emotiva speaker enthusiast." I think that you're wrong on this implication. That's not what I get from his statements.
You consider his statement about Emotiva needing to do "something really special" as an insult. I consider that a statement of fact regarding the price range being discussed.
You consider his attitude to be "Emotiva speakers don't compete." I think he NEVER said that, and doesn't mean it.
You think that despite rave reviews (including mine) that Cogito implies that Emotiva isn't a successful speaker company. I read no evidence for this in Cogito's post.
In short, you're completely ignoring the CONTEXT of what Cogito posted - he isn't taking in general about Emotiva or their speakers - he's talking specifically about speakers in the high price range (a theoretical topic as it applies to Emotiva).
So in summary, I honestly think that you, me, AND Cogito agree that IF (a big word) Emotiva were to market a speaker in the price range of $2,000 to $3,000, they would have to make some effort in polishing the design and do away with the black vinyl to compete. I think we all also agree that Emotiva's current speaker line is highly-competitive as well as being amazingly-valued.
Boom
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 4:58:56 GMT -5
..... Boom do you know who John Sollecito is formerly of JSE speakers? ..... Can you compare him with Vance Dickason? ..... Emotiva speakers compare performance wise with speakers much higher priced, hello! Do I need to explain why again? Many Emo members don't bother auditioning the speakers, too bad. No need to bash them. ..... One of many reasons is they don't have high priced cabinets. I have no objection to beautiful wood but don't need it on my speakers. I'm sure the 7211's look great but do they sound any better than any other run of the mill speakers from obscure designers from NE. ..... Those of us who have been around for a long time know that many times the price of a speaker is not a good indication that it is better than other much lower priced models. ..... Boom said: You consider his attitude to be "Emotiva speakers don't compete." I think he NEVER said that, and doesn't mean it.Hello, what does this mean: Emotiva would have to have to do something REALLY special in order to compete
...... Bommsilly, did you flunk both English and logic.  ...... Watch this I simply get tired of the many Emo members who bad mouth the speakers but never have auditioned them at home. They presume they aren't as good as the 2/3 times as expensive speakers in the stores. The know zero about factory operations, factory bulk production, direct to user sales, limited models, colors, low margins, which make for very low online prices. Boom, get some rest. It's my bedtime here in Worshington. PS: Guess who posted this several years ago? " Seems to me, if Emotiva debuted at 2-4 times the prices they sold for, these same
people would "ooohing" and "awwwwing" about the gear. From my short "real world"
experience, Emotiva may actually save the "hi-end" audio/video business. People can
actually buy top performing gear for "mid-fi" prices." |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 25, 2019 5:49:13 GMT -5
...PS: Guess who posted this several years ago? " Seems to me, if Emotiva debuted at 2-4 times the prices they sold for, these same
people would "ooohing" and "awwwwing" about the gear. From my short "real world"
experience, Emotiva may actually save the "hi-end" audio/video business. People can
actually buy top performing gear for "mid-fi" prices." ? LOL As to the video, классно |
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 25, 2019 11:01:48 GMT -5
I've owned Emo speakers from their ERM, Stealth and Airmotiv lines and to me they sounded good and also represented a lot of value for the build quality they had. I prefer the Ascend speakers I am using now but still have good memories of the Emo ones I had previously. I still have the AM4's for desktop speakers and they're the best I've used among many.
Often the price of a speaker has nothing to do with its sound or quality. And as some have pointed out, you can wind up paying a lot for features that have nothing to do with the sound, such as fancy wood or other finishes, manufacturer markup greed, etc.
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Post by Cogito on Feb 25, 2019 20:16:19 GMT -5
There are some GREAT speakers out there in the 2-3 grand price point from companies that have been successfully designing and building loudspeaker for decades, lifetimes even. Emotiva would have to have to do something REALLY special in order to compete. First thing they would need to do is to get rid of that DAMN UGLY black vinyl wrap crap! Real wood veneers or at least nice paint jobs like Tekton's. BTW: The 7211 weighs 42lbs each, a real lightweight! The Emotiva ERT-8.3 weighs 75 lbs! Get it? A high quality speaker with high end drivers and magnets, very solid cabinet. The Emo T2 weighs 57lbs. Your 7211 is a typical speaker by an obscure company that sells overpriced speakers. Go trash Emotiva speakers somewhere else!
Comparing the weight of the Source Technologies 7211 to Emotiva's ERT-3.8 and T-2s is a bit misleading. Both are considerably larger and with more and larger driver compliments. FYI The 7211's cabinet uses 3/4" MDF all around, with an 1-1/2" front baffle. The knuckle rap test produces a dull thud on ALL surfaces. The fit and finish is very nice, with perfect seams and magnetic grills. The driver compliment use name brand drivers, the highly regarded SEAS 18RNX Reed/Paper mid/bass, the Fountek FW168 aluminum mid/bass and the Dynavox TD2801XL soft dome tweeter. NONE of these drivers are particularly expensive or exotic, but when combined with John Sollecito's "point to point" designed crossovers, the sound IS impressive regardless of their physical weight. Regardless, I never brought up anything about weight or sound quality of Emotiva's stuff. I simply commented on their extensive use of black vinyl finishes. I understand that it may be preferable for those who use the stuff for home theater setups or simply like black. I also understand that it helps keep Emotiva's costs down because vinyl is cheap. However, in my eyes, it makes their products look cheap. |
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) subs have yet to realize some very basics about sound as the frequency output lowers.
). He sure doesn't sound like an Emotiva speaker enthusiast. He writes: Emotiva would have to have to do something REALLY special in order to compete. I read that as an insult!
