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Post by rbk123 on May 15, 2019 8:47:26 GMT -5
To all my friends on this thread & everywhere in the audio enthusiasts world. We are also discussing the ability to create / recognize an Icon of audio gear! blah blah blah
Oh the drama. Real Housewives of The Lounge now on the air.  |
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Lsc
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 3,434
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Post by Lsc on May 15, 2019 9:19:34 GMT -5
I have heard that the XPR amps cost Emotiva a lot of money. It being too heavy and too fragile did them in.
I hope we all had realistic expectations when we are buying something that was made in China with less than extremely tight tolerances.
My XPR2 and XPR5 have been fantastic and I don’t want to jinx that.
But the blue display and the meter colors are different and the meters don’t behave the same way between them. Also, even at the “bargain” prices Emotiva sold them at, I don’t think they sold well.
If Emotiva brings these back which I doubt since most other high end companies are changing directions, the quality control needs a to go way up.
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Post by davidl81 on May 15, 2019 10:07:49 GMT -5
I have heard that the XPR amps cost Emotiva a lot of money. It being too heavy and too fragile did them in. I hope we all had realistic expectations when we are buying something that was made in China with less than extremely tight tolerances. My XPR2 and XPR5 have been fantastic and I don’t want to jinx that. But the blue display and the meter colors are different and the meters don’t behave the same way between them. Also, even at the “bargain” prices Emotiva sold them at, I don’t think they sold well. If Emotiva brings these back which I doubt since most other high end companies are changing directions, the quality control needs a to go way up. I think that the XPR-1 just did not have high enough of a price point for there to be enough profit in them after you factor in freight shipping etc. These amps should have been in the $2500 ish range. Now I don't know if they would have sold well at that price point, but I think thy would have had enough profit in them to work out the issues with shipping cost/warranty work etc. |
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Post by teaman on May 15, 2019 11:50:19 GMT -5
I have heard that the XPR amps cost Emotiva a lot of money. It being too heavy and too fragile did them in. I hope we all had realistic expectations when we are buying something that was made in China with less than extremely tight tolerances. My XPR2 and XPR5 have been fantastic and I don’t want to jinx that. But the blue display and the meter colors are different and the meters don’t behave the same way between them. Also, even at the “bargain” prices Emotiva sold them at, I don’t think they sold well. If Emotiva brings these back which I doubt since most other high end companies are changing directions, the quality control needs a to go way up. I think that the XPR-1 just did not have high enough of a price point for there to be enough profit in them after you factor in freight shipping etc. These amps should have been in the $2500 ish range. Now I don't know if they would have sold well at that price point, but I think thy would have had enough profit in them to work out the issues with shipping cost/warranty work etc. I'm not sure how many people were willing to risk $2500 for a China built amp. |
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Post by davidl81 on May 15, 2019 13:44:36 GMT -5
I think that the XPR-1 just did not have high enough of a price point for there to be enough profit in them after you factor in freight shipping etc. These amps should have been in the $2500 ish range. Now I don't know if they would have sold well at that price point, but I think thy would have had enough profit in them to work out the issues with shipping cost/warranty work etc. I'm not sure how many people were willing to risk $2500 for a China built amp. Which is why most likely those amps (or some newer version of them) are not available for sale any more. |
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Post by pedrocols on May 15, 2019 13:52:38 GMT -5
What is the difference between Caps Lock and huge font size?
If any?🤔
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Post by garbulky on May 15, 2019 14:11:59 GMT -5
What is the difference between Caps Lock and huge font size?If any?🤔 or in a really big font. But you can only have huge fonts in huge fonts. Though they can be both UPPER CASE (CAPS LOCK) or lower case. |
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Post by highfihoney2 on May 15, 2019 14:45:20 GMT -5
Ok,let me put Nick's statement in perspective ,the member who Keith noted for saying the Emotiva XPR-1 and 2s sounded better than Mcintosh's 1,200 watt $26,000 equivalent Mc-1201 Monoblocks was me,I own 2 pair of McIntosh 1201s & until recently I also owned the Krell FPB 750s which are 750 watts of class A power,neither pair of Monoblocks sounds as good,or deliever the same performance as the XPR's,and I posted pics of my other monoblocks with my review so it would be taken seriously instead of fanboy nonsense . I couldn't wait any more for Emotiva & Bob Carver to work things out so I bought the 300 watt McIntosh Mc-2301 tube monoblocks for my tweeters at $16,000 which is a huge deal,those amps can't deliver the performance of the XPR-1s ,my 1,200 RMS 4,800 watt peak wattage Mc-1201s don't sound as good as the XPR-1s,my 750 watt Krell FPB Monoblocks don't sound as good as the Emotiva XPR-1s & I paid $18,000 for them ,I also spent $11,000 on a new pair of Jeff Rowland 501s that push 1,000 watts and they too cannot touch the Emotiva XPR-1 Monoblocks ,I did the A/B testing on the fly using a McIntosh preamp ,can't remember which model but most likely the C-2200 tube pre from our 5 channel SACD rig ,for sources I used a McIntosh MVP-861 CD/DVD/SACD player,an Emotiva ERC-1 or 2 ,can't remember which model j pulled for the tests ,I also used my Dynaco/Panor Corp CDV-PRO tube CD player and my VPI scout for vinyl ,all my wires back then we're McIntosh's Tributaries brand . The speakers used we're McIntosh dual column XRT-22 line arrays in our HT,McIntosh XR-290 line arrays in our SACD rig ,and McIntosh XRT-28 line arrays at my McIntosh Dealers showroom ,even the Mac dealer I've known since we were in high school was blown away by the XPR-1s ,I bought the $22,000 XRT-28 line arrays based on how much more authority the XPR-1s drove all 68 drivers in the line arrays vs the Mc-1201s ,I don't know of a more revealing speaker than the arrays I own & I've compared the XPR-1s against the best amps McIntosh ,Krell & Rowland have to offer & the Emotivas were best in every comparison ,so which amps would you recommend we replace our Emotiva XPR-1s with ? Nick is right ,there is no amp equal to the Emotiva XPR-1 at any cost ,Emotiva made a very special amp design with the XPR line & it shouldn't be allowed to fade into history ,those of us who own them know they are irreplaceable and have capabilities no other 1,000 watt & up amp can replicate,I'm proud as he!! That I have a pair of $3,000 Emotiva monoblocks driving $80,000 worth of McIntosh because they do a better job,and most of us like to keep it that way . You should try the Bryston 28 monoblocks, definitely better than the XPR's IMO Please take no offense but Bryston isn't my thing even though they are in the top 3 amps made ,they lack style IMO ,the way a piece of gear looks in my home is equally important as it's performance,we have 2 entire rooms dedicated to audio so asthetics plays a role,I know it's shallow but it's my home,looks is why my Krells were relegated to running rears & not racked with the rest of the HT gear,if forced into it I'll most likely buy a pair of McIntosh Mc-2kw 6 chasis monoblocks to replace the XPR-1s,or go back retro with a pair of Mcintosh Mc-2600s in bridged mono. |
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Post by highfihoney2 on May 15, 2019 14:55:30 GMT -5
I think that the XPR-1 just did not have high enough of a price point for there to be enough profit in them after you factor in freight shipping etc. These amps should have been in the $2500 ish range. Now I don't know if they would have sold well at that price point, but I think thy would have had enough profit in them to work out the issues with shipping cost/warranty work etc. I'm not sure how many people were willing to risk $2500 for a China built amp. Shoot,there are tons of guys in the tube amp world who routinely risk 2 or 3 k on Chinese made tube amps ,it's their only choice when they can't afford Carver ,VTL,McIntosh etc,the scuttlebutt on the tube forums hasn't been negative ,it also helps that Emotiva is a US company irregardless of where the amp was made ,as long as people with broken gear can talk to an American & get issues resolved we don't much care who makes what ,half of my Harley's are made in Asia but it don't stop my from buying HD . |
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Post by teaman on May 15, 2019 15:42:20 GMT -5
I'm not sure how many people were willing to risk $2500 for a China built amp. Shoot,there are tons of guys in the tube amp world who routinely risk 2 or 3 k on Chinese made tube amps ,it's their only choice when they can't afford Carver ,VTL,McIntosh etc,the scuttlebutt on the tube forums hasn't been negative ,it also helps that Emotiva is a US company irregardless of where the amp was made ,as long as people with broken gear can talk to an American & get issues resolved we don't much care who makes what ,half of my Harley's are made in Asia but it don't stop my from buying HD . I totally agree with the China tube amp philosophy, I believe there has been enough of a path laid down for others to trust them. However I see pretty much zero interest in the Chinese made solid state amps. |
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Post by highfihoney2 on May 22, 2019 19:44:29 GMT -5
Like most audio amplifiers - and especially higher-powered Class A/B amps - the amplified moduler in the XPR amps are built out of more or less readily available individual parts. Replacing an entire module because a part fails is equivalent to replacing the entire door on your car because the door handle gets broken. A dealer might do it because it's quick and easy - and if they happen to have one on hand - but they aren't going to stock replacement doors for every model and color. (And, if they replace the entire door, you'll get your car back quickly, but you'll also end up paying $2000 to get your $50 door handle fixed.)
A competent repair technician will troubleshoot the problem, find out which parts have failed, and replace just those parts. This is exactly what we would do if we were to repair an XPR amp here. We put it on the bench, troubleshoot it, and fix it.
And, if we don't have the parts in stock, we order them - just as any other repair shop should be able to do.
(In fact, the few custom parts, like the heat sink, and the big transformer, which can't just be ordered, are also the ones that pretty much never fail.)
Swapping out entire modules is convenient, and can be practical on a current product, where there are a lot of them in circulation, and a lot still being serviced.
It's also convenient for a dealer or distributor who only has moderately qualified technicians available - it takes less training and knowledge to swap a module than to repair one. The fact that we no longer have spare modules in stock simply puts the XPR amps in the same situation as any other amplifier that's simply made out of parts. If it breaks - then you fix it.
Unfortunately, the XPR amps are large, heavy, and complex - which does make them somewhat difficult to work on. The other issue with the XPR amps is that, because they are big and heavy, which makes them very difficult to ship. This means that, every time you ship one, there is a significant chance that it will be damaged in shipping.
The other thing, which a lt of people don't seem to realize, is that troubleshooting a problem generally requires that you run the unit you're trying to fix. This means that, for example, if you want to repair an XPR amp module, you have to have it installed and running in an XPR amp to do so. So, if you send in a separate module, we actually have to take your module, install it in another amplifier, repair and test it, then remove it from that amplifier and ship it back to you.
(And we have to hope that it will arrive intact - and be reinstalled properly at your end.) This makes for a lot of labor, which means that the repair is going to cost more. (The alternative is to maintain a collection of special test jigs used just to repair modules - which only makes sense if you're repairing more than a few a year.)
Altogether, if you do have a competent local repair shop, it's a LOT more practical to have an XPR amp repaired locally.
So if an XPR amp module goes bad, and Emotiva no longer has them in stock...you believe they will somehow magically get one to swap in for repair? I have heard differently. Once from a seller on Ebay with his XPR-5 for sale and only four channels working. His reply to me is that Emotiva no longer stocks spare amp modules for the XPPR and can therefor no longer repair the amps if the modules go bad. I have also seen a similar post in the Emotiva group Facebook page. Hello Keith,did we ever come to a conclusion as to Emotiva repairing common sense electronics within the XPR-1, XPR-2 and XPR-5 ? I'm getting ready to order a new XPA-2 sometime next week to replace the McIntosh Mc-7270 driving tweeters in my HT & I'd like to feel even that much better about buying the XPA-2 ,I'm buying the XPA-2 irregardless of the answer I get as to repairing the innards of my XPRs,but I sure hope the answer is yes,I'm slowly replacing McIntosh amplification with Emotiva & that's a feater in Emotivas cap . |
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Post by leonski on May 26, 2019 18:42:59 GMT -5
Just get a tube amp.😁 Sorry folks could not help myself. Very few tube amps would be a plug-in replacement for the -1 mono amps. Very high power tube gear not only kills the electric AND air conditioning bill, but costs a bundle. As Keith noted, parts are available on the open market. If you fry a Board, OTOH? You might be on your own. But as far as electronic components? Shouldn't be anything proprietary of exclusive. But I'd suggest that if you change something in one amp because it's gone South, you may consider a similar change in the OTHER amp of a stereo pair to maintain the 'match' between sides. |
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biffy7
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 4 
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Post by biffy7 on Aug 23, 2021 13:24:15 GMT -5
Here is the problem. I don't want to take my Emotiva Amp to a repair shop. I would like Emotiva to repair the amp back to factory specs. I don't understand why Emotiva won't just price the repair to make a profit. If the customer doesn't want to pay, then the customer will not engage. In my case, it's not an XPR. And yes, I might pay a lot for the repair because I love the gear. But to drop support on one of the best amps ever is, to me, and odd decision.
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,033
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Post by cawgijoe on Aug 23, 2021 13:50:22 GMT -5
Here is the problem. I don't want to take my Emotiva Amp to a repair shop. I would like Emotiva to repair the amp back to factory specs. I don't understand why Emotiva won't just price the repair to make a profit. If the customer doesn't want to pay, then the customer will not engage. In my case, it's not an XPR. And yes, I might pay a lot for the repair because I love the gear. But to drop support on one of the best amps ever is, to me, and odd decision. Might be an odd decision...or not....however you can always ask. Last year I had my original XPA-5 Gen 1 develop an intermittent "fault" problem with one of the channels. Very intermittent. Eight years old. Called Emotiva, worked through some troubleshooting on the phone. They decided it would need repair. They told me they could repair it and gave me a fixed dollar amount, which was very reasonable. However, I ended up trading it in to them since I really wanted a new Gen 3 amp. So, I guess what I'm saying is, call and ask before deciding they won't repair it. |
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Post by leonski on Sept 4, 2021 14:33:11 GMT -5
I can't offhand find the weight of this amp spec'd. I know that JUST the transformer goes 20lb and change.
That's what I think the problem is. SHIPPING turns into a real contest and these days is getting VERY $$$$.
A thread some time back had an owner complaining about not being able to get an amp repaired. The claim, from
EMO was apparently that the amp was so poorly packed as to render it junk upon receipt.
THAT, is IMO, the problem. Not parts wihch are commodity cheap and available. Or circuit boards. You could stock
enough for 200 amp repairs in a small space. BUT the WEIGHT. And the fact that packing / shipping is NOT a trivial
concern. I recently shipped a near-80 year old Military Compass from a small ship to a reseller. I bought an appropriate
sized outer box than made custom fitting for the compass and included solid styrofoam sheet, bubble wrap, half a mile of TAPE
as well as some 'air' gap. Just from the look of the OUTER box, the nice people at the shipper offered me a JOB......And yes,
the piece arrived in perfect condition and was sold again within a week. Total shipping weight of about 28lb.....
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Post by audiobill on Sept 5, 2021 8:34:04 GMT -5
There are brands that know how to pack and ship......
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Post by leonski on Sept 5, 2021 19:59:16 GMT -5
There are brands that know how to pack and ship...... VERY VERY true. But the problem is IF you have a problem? Can you reuse original packing? Can you do as well or better if you DON'T? Big heavy pieces of gear which at some point qualify as 'delicate'......'Do Not Drop' can get reduced to expensive rubble by poor packing. Nobody looks at 'handle with care' signs or even if the package has ShockWatch stickers. (look THAT one up, please) IMO? THAT is about 80% of the reason EMO went to a switcher. Ditch 25lb of transformer. Ease up on heat sinking and delete the High Bias switch. Now? You just cut your arguements with various shippers by 3/4 or better. And arguements with Customers which turn into a 'he said'......'she said' when it comes to packing and insurance and just how good DID you pack that amp for shipping back to us? It sounds like a bottomless pit of problems. But I could be wrong? |
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Lsc
Emo VIPs
Posts: 3,434
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Post by Lsc on Sept 5, 2021 23:00:54 GMT -5
They ran out of replacement parts.
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Post by leonski on Sept 6, 2021 0:38:20 GMT -5
They ran out of replacement parts. What parts (electrical or electronic) are proprietary? You mean to say that perhaps stuff like output devices (Darlington or Triple Darlington?) are no longer available? Resistors and caps are ALL commodity parts. Come in standard sizes, configurations and voltages. A proprietary part in this category would cost a BUNDLE. If you mean boards? EMO has the 'art' and could do a 'short run' from any number of vendors...... Nuts and bolts are commodity. The ONLY thing not off the shelf is the metalwork. 'Running out of parts' strikes me as a form of lazy. Just my opinion....... |
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Lsc
Emo VIPs
Posts: 3,434
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Post by Lsc on Sept 6, 2021 0:49:07 GMT -5
They ran out of replacement parts. What parts (electrical or electronic) are proprietary? You mean to say that perhaps stuff like output devices (Darlington or Triple Darlington?) are no longer available? Resistors and caps are ALL commodity parts. Come in standard sizes, configurations and voltages. A proprietary part in this category would cost a BUNDLE. If you mean boards? EMO has the 'art' and could do a 'short run' from any number of vendors...... Nuts and bolts are commodity. The ONLY thing not off the shelf is the metalwork. 'Running out of parts' strikes me as a form of lazy. Just my opinion....... It’s what they said. And with their history of not supporting products long term has changed my spending habits. I don’t question their choices as it doesn’t do me any benefit. But I do respond based on them and one of it is looking elsewhere. I feel it’s better to spend my money and energy. |
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