|
|
Post by leonski on Sept 6, 2021 1:47:55 GMT -5
What parts (electrical or electronic) are proprietary? You mean to say that perhaps stuff like output devices (Darlington or Triple Darlington?) are no longer available? Resistors and caps are ALL commodity parts. Come in standard sizes, configurations and voltages. A proprietary part in this category would cost a BUNDLE. If you mean boards? EMO has the 'art' and could do a 'short run' from any number of vendors...... Nuts and bolts are commodity. The ONLY thing not off the shelf is the metalwork. 'Running out of parts' strikes me as a form of lazy. Just my opinion....... It’s what they said. And with their history of not supporting products long term has changed my spending habits. I don’t question their choices as it doesn’t do me any benefit. But I do respond based on them and one of it is looking elsewhere. I feel it’s better to spend my money and energy. You know? What you say makes perfect sense. They CHOOSE not to support stuff. Hell.....I sent Magnepan a pair of MG-1 speakers built mid-late 70s. That would be early 2000s....... You know what they did? Called me on the phone and asked what color I'd prefer for the Sock (grill for box speakers) Not THAT's support! Too bad. And I hear various reports about 'em being STINGY with schematics, too....... Very off-putting and I'd see why you'd go elsewhere for your electronic wants. |
|
|
|
Post by harrison20 on Sept 13, 2021 11:00:36 GMT -5
All depends on your business model. If your model is to bring out a "New and Improved" amp every two years, then this makes business sense. If your Mcintosh you price it very high and stand behind it.
|
|
|
|
Post by novisnick on Sept 13, 2021 11:23:54 GMT -5
All depends on your business model. If your model is to bring out a "New and Improved" amp every two years, then this makes business sense. If your Mcintosh you price it very high and stand behind it. Perhaps I would agree but who would continue to purchase amps that only lasted a few years? Why would folks purchase a piece of gear that costs much more than a throw away priced anything? The XPR-1 was/is a show stopping piece of gear and should be pointed to as what Emotiva is capable of doing but has chosen another path. My  |
|
KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,256
|
Post by KeithL on Sept 13, 2021 12:03:03 GMT -5
You seem to have some confusion about life expectancy and service...
Compared to most companies, especially any whose products are anywhere near our price range, we offer a really good warranty. And, if you own an XPR amp, it most certainly didn't magically stop working the day we stopped actively offering service.
There are many XPR amps that are still in use... and working just fine.
Unfortunately, because the XPR amps are so heavy, they have a tendency to become damaged in shipping. And, combined with the fact that several parts of their metalwork are both custom and rather unique, this makes them difficult to repair properly. It costs a lot to ship an XPR amp, and it takes a lot of effort to do so properly, and if it becomes damaged in shipping we no longer have the parts to fix it.
(And, to put it bluntly, when they were being sold, you could have bought several XPR amps for price of a McIntosh, then you'd have a spare.)
All depends on your business model. If your model is to bring out a "New and Improved" amp every two years, then this makes business sense. If your Mcintosh you price it very high and stand behind it. Perhaps I would agree but who would continue to purchase amps that only lasted a few years? Why would folks purchase a piece of gear that costs much more than a throw away priced anything? The XPR-1 was/is a show stopping piece of gear and should be pointed to as what Emotiva is capable of doing but has chosen another path. My |
|
|
|
Post by novisnick on Sept 13, 2021 12:41:56 GMT -5
You seem to have some confusion about life expectancy and service...
Compared to most companies, especially any whose products are anywhere near our price range, we offer a really good warranty. And, if you own an XPR amp, it most certainly didn't magically stop working the day we stopped actively offering service.
There are many XPR amps that are still in use... and working just fine.
Unfortunately, because the XPR amps are so heavy, they have a tendency to become damaged in shipping. And, combined with the fact that several parts of their metalwork are both custom and rather unique, this makes them difficult to repair properly. It costs a lot to ship an XPR amp, and it takes a lot of effort to do so properly, and if it becomes damaged in shipping we no longer have the parts to fix it.
(And, to put it bluntly, when they were being sold, you could have bought several XPR amps for price of a McIntosh, then you'd have a spare.)
Perhaps I would agree but who would continue to purchase amps that only lasted a few years? Why would folks purchase a piece of gear that costs much more than a throw away priced anything? The XPR-1 was/is a show stopping piece of gear and should be pointed to as what Emotiva is capable of doing but has chosen another path. My It seems that you either took something personal, like I called you dog ugly or something or you missed understanding my statement. I understand all of what you said except the part about not having parts if it got damaged in shipping. Perhaps two different thoughts at the same time. I did not or ever would state that I didn’t find the TOTL XPR-1 amps to not be a great value. I stated that they were the pinnacle of Emotiva’s ability to build such a beautiful AND great sounding amp. As for being a TOTL show piece I thought that it should be serviced longer then Emotiva’s ordinary gear, this is a personal opinion. Last I checked I really did have that privilege in the lounge. I do have a set of great mono block amps, some of the best ever built in my opinion! They work great and sound even better, they are Emotiva XPR-1’s. More grunt, beauty and dependability then most any other TOTL amp I have ever had the joy of owning. Did I mention that they can make any speaker sound better beyond their build? I should have because I’m still enamored with them today even more then the day I placed them in my system. One last note about your last sentence, I wish I could have afforded to make the additional purchase but at the time I just couldn’t. I would like very much if I could receive a schematic of them just in case they ever faultier. I would greatly appreciate you doing so. |
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Sept 13, 2021 13:25:26 GMT -5
Just HOW LONG have I been harping on the shipping issues?
From Keith::
Unfortunately, because the XPR amps are so heavy, they have a tendency to become damaged in shipping.
And, combined with the fact that several parts of their metalwork are both custom and rather unique, this makes them difficult to repair properly.
It costs a lot to ship an XPR amp, and it takes a lot of effort to do so properly, and if it becomes damaged in shipping we no longer have the parts to
ALSO? Do NOT mistake 'Warranty' for 'Longevity'........I have only rarely had ANYTHING, regardless of price or place of manufacture simply FAIL
during warranty.
With the price of the product...you are PREPAYING for a certain level of repair while the builder has high confidence, based on various factors that
you will NOT NEED to have it fixed. Thus profit ensured.
That being said? And amp should last AT LEAST 2 decades. Or longer. If used reguarly and NOT 'cooked' or 'over stressed', anyway.
PS caps will go 25 years at least. Semicondutors have a MTBF in the multiple-thousands of hours. Designed conservatively? Long Life Assured.
|
|
|
|
Post by audiobill on Sept 13, 2021 20:49:11 GMT -5
“(And, to put it bluntly, when they were being sold, you could have bought several XPR amps for price of a McIntosh, then you'd have a spare.) “
But you still wouldn’t have a McIntosh, supported for many years. So, buy one McIntosh or multiple whatevers.
Like saying you could have two Nissans or a Porsche.
|
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Sept 13, 2021 21:18:05 GMT -5
“(And, to put it bluntly, when they were being sold, you could have bought several XPR amps for price of a McIntosh, then you'd have a spare.) “ But you still wouldn’t have a McIntosh, supported for many years. Like saying you could have two Nissans or a Porsche. Right you are. Mc will service I'll bet up to 3/4 of whatever they've sold over the years. Exceptions being early stuff (1949 to 1955 tube) and EARLY Solid State. The receiver in particular is not well regarded. Most $$$ Nissan is the GTR, as far as I know, and easily exceeds the cost of many Porsche models......At least in the 718 line. NOT including the 911 line.....at least in the 'sports car' line. I'm sure a Panamera can go right to the moon..... |
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,256
|
Post by KeithL on Sept 14, 2021 9:37:02 GMT -5
You are quite right... McIntosh gear is generally built like a tank, lasts forever, and has great resale value... It can also be quite attractive... although that is obviously a matter of personal taste. (I liked the look of their older tuners with the glass face plates.) And, from what I've heard, their service is still pretty good, although not what it used to be.
But I know at least one person personally who replaced his McIntosh amp with some Emotiva amps... because our amps sound better (his words). (I heard both and I agreed that the McIntosh amp sounded "good but not great"... but then I am biased.  ) I have also heard similar comments from a few customers on the phone over the years.
I did have one of McIntosh's big solid state FM tuners... and it sounded impressively good for a tuner...
Unfortunately there isn't much on FM that I care to listen to lately... so I sold it again.
(And, yes, I bought it used, and got back what I paid for it when I sold it again.)
“(And, to put it bluntly, when they were being sold, you could have bought several XPR amps for price of a McIntosh, then you'd have a spare.) “ But you still wouldn’t have a McIntosh, supported for many years. So, buy one McIntosh or multiple whatevers. Like saying you could have two Nissans or a Porsche. |
|
|
|
Post by audiobill on Sept 14, 2021 10:08:01 GMT -5
I thought the Emos I’ve had sounded pleasant enough for their price.
|
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Sept 14, 2021 13:48:20 GMT -5
All depends on your business model. If your model is to bring out a "New and Improved" amp every two years, then this makes business sense. If your Mcintosh you price it very high and stand behind it. What I call 'The Churn'...... |
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Sept 14, 2021 13:50:06 GMT -5
You are quite right... McIntosh gear is generally built like a tank, lasts forever, and has great resale value... It can also be quite attractive... although that is obviously a matter of personal taste. (I liked the look of their older tuners with the glass face plates.) And, from what I've heard, their service is still pretty good, although not what it used to be.
But I know at least one person personally who replaced his McIntosh amp with some Emotiva amps... because our amps sound better (his words). (I heard both and I agreed that the McIntosh amp sounded "good but not great"... but then I am biased. ) I have also heard similar comments from a few customers on the phone over the years.
I did have one of McIntosh's big solid state FM tuners... and it sounded impressively good for a tuner...
Unfortunately there isn't much on FM that I care to listen to lately... so I sold it again.
(And, yes, I bought it used, and got back what I paid for it when I sold it again.)
“(And, to put it bluntly, when they were being sold, you could have bought several XPR amps for price of a McIntosh, then you'd have a spare.) “ But you still wouldn’t have a McIntosh, supported for many years. So, buy one McIntosh or multiple whatevers. Like saying you could have two Nissans or a Porsche. Some, myself included, don't fall head-over-heels for the Mc House Sound. What's FM? |
|
stiehl11
Emo VIPs 
Give me available light!
Posts: 7,269
|
Post by stiehl11 on Sept 14, 2021 15:59:43 GMT -5
Most $$$ Nissan is the GTR, as far as I know, and easily exceeds the cost of many Porsche models......At least in the 718 line. NOT including the 911 line.....at least in the 'sports car' line. I'm sure a Panamera can go right to the moon..... I know the comment above was meant as hyperbole, but apples to apples the GTR starts at $114,000 and the equivalent in performance from Porsche is about $50,000 more (911 Turbo S). The 911 is more akin (performance wise) to the Z-car where the Porsche is again about 50% more. All numbers are base and w/o options. What your cost/benefit between the models is up to you. |
|
|
|
Post by audiobill on Sept 14, 2021 16:09:34 GMT -5
In my comment I was thinking about comparing several Nissan Versas or an econobox of that ilk, not the GTR to a Porshe. Ludricous I know.
|
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Sept 14, 2021 16:12:09 GMT -5
Agreed.......I see where yop're coming from.
But for my nickel? I could spend UPMARKET on a 718 line Porsche and have something I'd keep for a LONG time.
Even get one of the expensive / optional colors and LOTS of goodies. CONTENT IS KING....in this arena, maybe?
As I age, I'm less interested in brain damaging acceleratipn but certainly can be sold some 'creature comforts'......!!
My cost / benefit? I can't see myself spending THAT kind of loot on a car. Exception? I'd go have a SERIOUS look at the
Lexus LC500. Big V8, and maybe NOT a hardcore 'sports car' but certainly in the GT category. I sat in one at the car show
and it was like sitting in a hand. Fully optioned up? GTR territory......but base <100 Large........
|
|
|
|
Post by 405x5 on Sept 14, 2021 16:44:10 GMT -5
Shipping has been the number 1 painful prospect for me. The XMC 1 was the first high end component that was ever delivered directly to my residence.
Still, that vision of the mailman trotting up here with the thing carelessly perched on his shoulder was a crap 💩 shoot that fortunately, I lucked out with. Very impressively double boxed and undamaged.
All the big stuff I picked up and delivered myself (even bought a special hand truck.) The speaker boxes were so big I ended up renting a truck for the pickup . That being said, it was actually a fun, worthwhile day trip.
|
|
|
|
Post by audiobill on Sept 14, 2021 16:47:12 GMT -5
Totally - remembered how to pray after building and shipping over 100 tube amps all over the world. Sleepless nights indeed!
Copious large bubble wrap, double boxing in new heavy duty boxes and sending tubes separately were key. Used boxes weaken.
|
|
|
|
Post by 405x5 on Sept 14, 2021 17:02:25 GMT -5
Totally - remembered how to pray after building and shipping over 100 tube amps all over the world. Sleepless nights indeed! Copious large bubble wrap, double boxing in new heavy duty boxes and sending tubes separately were key. Used boxes weaken. I never shipped that much glass. The relative amount I DID ship, didn’t end well at both ends. I gave that up in a hurry and going forward I only deal with that as a buyer. |
|
|
|
Post by leonski on Sept 14, 2021 20:17:46 GMT -5
LAST thing I shipped/ 300$ worth of WWII Naval Compass. Box was 18x18x12 and weighed 28lb when complete. I did some CUSTOM cutting and fitting of Sheet Styrofoam as well as The internal box being 3x layers of 1/2" Bubble Wrap.
No internal 'jiggle' when done and I even secured the companss in its box to keep it from moving.....it was in gimbal'd INTERNALLY. Arrived FINE and I even got a Job Offer from the nice lady at the shipping office who saw my near-OCD attention
to detail and sheer quality of packing.
I feel qualified by reason of being NUTS to ship darn near anything / anywhere and won't lose a minutes sleep over it.......as if I slept, anyway.
|
|
|
|
Post by ausman on Oct 15, 2021 11:55:51 GMT -5
kinda makes mw want to ask why not make it drop in and drop out user repairable
i just wished emptiva released the basx monoblocks with xlr optiond
|
|
)
