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Post by diskman on Feb 24, 2010 15:45:57 GMT -5
Hello Lonnie,
Could I have confirmation that the issue with Matrix 7.1 from 5.1 in PLIIx mode, Neo6 will be the one in the post of Big dan because i't not clear for me?
Thank's
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Post by Mike Ronesia on Feb 24, 2010 15:47:36 GMT -5
I live with no HD content and only 4 channels that are broadcast live. The rest is all 1 week old and on tape. I will assume it is all still put out at 480i. My TV is a Samsung 52A850 LCD and I'm not sure if it has EDID or not. I'm hoping this will not be a problem for me.
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Post by loopinfool on Feb 24, 2010 15:48:10 GMT -5
I think the their is a lot of confusion about EDID and that is where a lot of this is founded. But in my experience there is no such thing as "Bad EDID". From what I have seen, EDID tells the real story about a devices capabilities. Maybe not in your experience. However, while testing their new 1080p movies, DirecTV found out that a lot of 24p-capable displays do not properly report that resolution over HDMI. They added an "override button" so people could make it work properly with their displays. I'm sure there are other instances where manufacturers did not get it right. As you know, mistakes happen before shipping that don't get caught. A lot of displays don't have field-upgradable firmware. We do not live in a perfect world, especially when it comes to HDMI. I strongly dislike putting "work-around" code in products, but I've had to on many an occasion. A lot of well-respected companies get things wrong, mis-read specifications, etc. I could have stubbornly ignored problems caused by mistakes made by Adobe, Microsoft, and others. I'd rather the support staff deal with real issues I didn't know about, and it's hard to convince a customer that Adobe (or Sony, or Panasonic) is wrong and I'm right. Even when I am. - LoopinFool |
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Post by brettjb on Feb 24, 2010 15:54:20 GMT -5
I live with no HD content and only 4 channels that are broadcast live. The rest is all 1 week old and on tape. I will assume it is all still put out at 480i. My TV is a Samsung 52A850 LCD and I'm not sure if it has EDID or not. I'm hoping this will not be a problem for me. You'll be fine with that display. You can always lock the UMC to the native resolution of your display (1080p for that model Sammy) and never encounter the 480p hang-ups that we've been discussing. It only does it when the UMC is set to passthrough. The only downside is that you'll lose thje ability to send 1080p24 to your display unless the UMC is set to passthrough. --Brett |
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Post by Mike Ronesia on Feb 24, 2010 16:01:51 GMT -5
I live with no HD content and only 4 channels that are broadcast live. The rest is all 1 week old and on tape. I will assume it is all still put out at 480i. My TV is a Samsung 52A850 LCD and I'm not sure if it has EDID or not. I'm hoping this will not be a problem for me. You'll be fine with that display. You can always lock the UMC to the native resolution of your display (1080p for that model Sammy) and never encounter the 480p hang-ups that we've been discussing. It only does it when the UMC is set to passthrough. The only downside is that you'll lose thje ability to send 1080p24 to your display unless the UMC is set to passthrough. --Brett That is my concern. I don't want to have to fiddle every time I put in a BD to get the right output. |
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Post by brettjb on Feb 24, 2010 16:18:52 GMT -5
That is my concern. I don't want to have to fiddle every time I put in a BD to get the right output. Can anyone confirm if 1080p24 passthrough occurs when the display resolution on the UMC is set to "Auto"? Perhaps that's the work-around... I've avoided that, as my projector's EDID indicates that it is indeed capable of handling 1080p input (which it is), so that's what devices try to send. It's actually got a 720p native resolution (768p, actually, but that's another story with the InFocus IN76...), so I'd prefer to send native resolution instead of having multiple image scaling events. I can look at this tonight, if no one responds... |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Feb 24, 2010 16:25:23 GMT -5
That is my concern. I don't want to have to fiddle every time I put in a BD to get the right output. Can anyone confirm if 1080p24 passthrough occurs when the display resolution on the UMC is set to "Auto"? Perhaps that's the work-around... I've avoided that, as my projector's EDID indicates that it is indeed capable of handling 1080p input (which it is), so that's what devices try to send. It's actually got a 720p native resolution (768p, actually, but that's another story with the InFocus IN76...), so I'd prefer to send native resolution instead of having multiple image scaling events. I can look at this tonight, if no one responds... Only if the display asks for 1080p/24. |
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Post by johnnyg on Feb 24, 2010 16:29:47 GMT -5
On Big Dan's latest update he mentions one item being worked on is "With multiple stream changes, PLIIx default not being initialized 100% of the time." Does anybody know what the symptoms of this problem looke like to the user?
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Post by nickwin on Feb 24, 2010 16:53:19 GMT -5
OK, now I see what your saying. I wasn't even aware that movies and some tv shows are aired at 24fps. I knew they were filmed at 24fps, but I kind of just assumed they were converted to 60fps at some point before they come out of your STB, since most displays today can't display 24fps. That does indeed complicate things. P.S. I always thought that DVD players automatically converted the 24fps on the disc to 30fps at output, am I wrong? (this is getting over my head, so I wouldn't be surprised if I was) You are mainly correct. They are not aired at 24fps. They are carefully converted to 60fps (fields or frames) using 3:2 pulldown (search for it). Devices (like many displays, DVD/Blu-Ray players, receivers, and pre/pros) can detect the 3:2 pulldown patterns (sometimes called cadences) and accurately re-create the original progressive frames of the movie/show. Further, my display notices that the pattern comes from a 24fps source and does "the right thing" and it's very nice to watch. There's a lot of confusion out there. If anyone wants to learn more, a search for 3:2 pulldown will yield lots of good, easy to understand info. - LoopinFool I'm partially grasping what you are saying. Bare with me here... So if you are watching a show on TV that was filmed in 24fps, it gets output to your TV at 60fps, but your TV detected the 3:2 pull down and recreates the 24fps signal. BUT, if you output that 60fps signal to the UMC, have the UMC scale it to 1080p60 (which shouldn't need any adjustments of the frame rate) and then send it from UMC to your TV, your TV will no longer be able to detect the 3:2 pull down and convert it back to 24fps? How come your Display is able to properly detect the 3:2 pull down when it's coming from the STB at 480p,720p, or 1080i, but not when it is output via the UMC at 1080p60? |
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Post by jerrym303 on Feb 24, 2010 17:26:44 GMT -5
I live with no HD content and only 4 channels that are broadcast live. The rest is all 1 week old and on tape. I will assume it is all still put out at 480i. My TV is a Samsung 52A850 LCD and I'm not sure if it has EDID or not. I'm hoping this will not be a problem for me. You'll be fine with that display. You can always lock the UMC to the native resolution of your display (1080p for that model Sammy) and never encounter the 480p hang-ups that we've been discussing. It only does it when the UMC is set to passthrough. The only downside is that you'll lose thje ability to send 1080p24 to your display unless the UMC is set to passthrough. --Brett If this is true, that will be a reasonable option for me for everyday use. I don't mind so much making an adjustment for Bluray. Maybe discrete codes could be made available for the three video processing modes. |
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Post by DYohn on Feb 24, 2010 17:32:10 GMT -5
You'll be fine with that display. You can always lock the UMC to the native resolution of your display (1080p for that model Sammy) and never encounter the 480p hang-ups that we've been discussing. It only does it when the UMC is set to passthrough. The only downside is that you'll lose thje ability to send 1080p24 to your display unless the UMC is set to passthrough. --Brett If this is true, that will be a reasonable option for me for everyday use. I don't mind so much making an adjustment for Bluray. Maybe discrete codes could be made available for the three video processing modes. The "Video" button on the remote will switch resolutions on the fly for you. |
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Post by loopinfool on Feb 24, 2010 17:34:36 GMT -5
BUT, if you output that 60fps signal to the UMC, have the UMC scale it to 1080p60 (which shouldn't need any adjustments of the frame rate) and then send it from UMC to your TV, your TV will no longer be able to detect the 3:2 pull down and convert it back to 24fps? How come your Display is able to properly detect the 3:2 pull down when it's coming from the STB at 480p,720p, or 1080i, but not when it is output via the UMC at 1080p60? You got it 100% correct. You would have to ask Pioneer about the limitation, but I suspect it's a lack of processing power in the display. 1080p60 sends twice as many pixels/second to the display as 1080i (or 720p) and I guess it can't do the advanced processing at that speed. I just happen to love this feature, and not many (any?) other displays can do this with anything other than a 1080p24 input. I know I'm in the minority. I just want it to work smoothly in my system when I get a UMC-1, just like everyone else. - LoopinFool |
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Post by robfive on Feb 24, 2010 18:25:18 GMT -5
Okay I don't know why this is bugging me so bad but come on people it's : sync not sink  Weird for me because I don't believe in the grammar police.  Yes Lonnie I'm looking at you too.   I just call it like I see it on the UMC-1. The splash screen clearly reads "sink" when indicating a loss of communication with my display. Is this the correct usage? Maybe not. |
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Post by DYohn on Feb 24, 2010 18:28:15 GMT -5
Okay I don't know why this is bugging me so bad but come on people it's : sync not sink Weird for me because I don't believe in the grammar police. Yes Lonnie I'm looking at you too. I just call it like I see it on the UMC-1. The splash screen clearly reads "sink" when indicating a loss of communication with my display. Is this the correct usage? Maybe not. (in this context) "Sync" refers to two or more signals using the same timing sequence. "Sink" would be the display device at the end of the HDMI cable, the signal "target." |
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Post by oneliterpeter on Feb 24, 2010 18:34:07 GMT -5
I just call it like I see it on the UMC-1. The splash screen clearly reads "sink" when indicating a loss of communication with my display. Is this the correct usage? Maybe not. (in this context) "Sync" refers to two or more signals using the same timing sequence. "Sink" would be the display device at the end of the HDMI cable, the signal "target." Or it could be that the programmer just spelled "sync" wrong. Occam's razor. |
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Post by Mike Ronesia on Feb 24, 2010 18:42:32 GMT -5
If this is true, that will be a reasonable option for me for everyday use. I don't mind so much making an adjustment for Bluray. Maybe discrete codes could be made available for the three video processing modes. The "Video" button on the remote will switch resolutions on the fly for you. Works for me. As in, that will be acceptable when I get it. |
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Post by palmfish on Feb 24, 2010 18:55:16 GMT -5
Wait a sec. Still on the waiting list here and following these threads closely...
Maybe I'm misunderstanding this (Very likely, given my level of knowledge), but all this time, I've assumed that the video settings in the UMC-1 are "per input." In other words, I could set the UMC-1 to always upconvert my DTV DVR picture to 1080p/60, but set the BD Player input to "passthrough" so the player does all the video processing. Is this not the case?
I will have a total of 4 HDMI devices hooked up to the UMC-1 when I finally get mine (BD player, DTV HD DVR, XBox360, and Wii), and I'd like to be able to pick and choose which devices gets upconverted at the pre/pro, and which ones do the work themselves and passthrough the UMC-1
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Feb 24, 2010 19:04:18 GMT -5
Wait a sec. Still on the waiting list here and following these threads closely... Maybe I'm misunderstanding this (Very likely, given my level of knowledge), but all this time, I've assumed that the video settings in the UMC-1 are "per input." In other words, I could set the UMC-1 to always upconvert my DTV DVR picture to 1080p/60, but set the BD Player input to "passthrough" so the player does all the video processing. Is this not the case? I will have a total of 4 HDMI devices hooked up to the UMC-1 when I finally get mine (BD player, DTV HD DVR, XBox360, and Wii), and I'd like to be able to pick and choose which devices gets upconverted at the pre/pro, and which ones do the work themselves and passthrough the UMC-1 Yes, this is not the case. Video settings are global not per input. But in your case, this might not sound as bad as you might think. It will depend on your display and what it reports back to the UMC. example: Bluray would be left at 1080p Xbox at 1080p wii will be s-video at 480i DTV HD will be set for 1080i/720p DVR at 1080i On auto, the UMC should take what you have and output it to what your display tells it it optimally wants. If that is 1080p, then the bluray and xbox would be untouched, and everything else upconverted and/or scaled to 1080p. If your display doesn't play nice, but you know 1080p is what you want as an output, set the UMC to 1080p and not auto. The tricky part comes when you want 1080p24 from your bluray. that may require that passthrough be set for those viewing sessions. 1080p24 is really dependent on your set. Some handle it very well, others not so well. In that case, stick to 1080p60. |
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Post by robfive on Feb 24, 2010 19:05:23 GMT -5
Wait a sec. Still on the waiting list here and following these threads closely... Maybe I'm misunderstanding this (Very likely, given my level of knowledge), but all this time, I've assumed that the video settings in the UMC-1 are "per input." In other words, I could set the UMC-1 to always upconvert my DTV DVR picture to 1080p/60, but set the BD Player input to "passthrough" so the player does all the video processing. Is this not the case? I will have a total of 4 HDMI devices hooked up to the UMC-1 when I finally get mine (BD player, DTV HD DVR, XBox360, and Wii), and I'd like to be able to pick and choose which devices gets upconverted at the pre/pro, and which ones do the work themselves and passthrough the UMC-1 Unfortunately the UMC-1 does not have this feature although I am not sure why not. I have heard that the XMC-1 will. |
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Post by bootman on Feb 24, 2010 19:20:20 GMT -5
Wait a sec. Still on the waiting list here and following these threads closely... Maybe I'm misunderstanding this (Very likely, given my level of knowledge), but all this time, I've assumed that the video settings in the UMC-1 are "per input." In other words, I could set the UMC-1 to always upconvert my DTV DVR picture to 1080p/60, but set the BD Player input to "passthrough" so the player does all the video processing. Is this not the case? I will have a total of 4 HDMI devices hooked up to the UMC-1 when I finally get mine (BD player, DTV HD DVR, XBox360, and Wii), and I'd like to be able to pick and choose which devices gets upconverted at the pre/pro, and which ones do the work themselves and passthrough the UMC-1 Unfortunately the UMC-1 does not have this feature although I am not sure why not. I have heard that the XMC-1 will. It came down to the amount of memory available to the video section. |
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